Author Topic: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems  (Read 409962 times)

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Offline sawmilkd

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #500 on: November 27, 2014, 03:53:57 pm »
I just updated my previous post regarding the beta firmware patch w/ a potential big issue. I have a DS1054Z, board version 0.1.1. Upon powering up this AM, everything "seemed" to be working fine (visibly triggering on my 20MHz test oscillator circuit from yesterday). However, none of the front panel buttons or knobs have any effect. They are all dead. Power cycling had no effect. The only way I was able to get control was to plug back in the USB stick I used last night to flash the new firmware BEFORE powering on the DS1054Z. The startup sequence was slightly different (a beep was present that is not normally there). After initialization, the firmware update box is presented (though it says it's the same version that's installed, but not the same version shown on the System information display). If I select cancel, the dialog box goes away, and the scope can be operated normally.

My DS1054Z is 100MHz unlocked. Perhaps there is a model mismatch causing trouble? Maybe Rigol was serious regarding beta status....

Anyone else experiencing this issue?

Yes, had the same. Also a lock up as you said after calibration. Restart fixed it. I think the beep means it has done a firmware update (I did it twice to be sure, happened both times).

Sorry, are you saying that your scope works now without requiring the USB stick to be inserted? Seems mine requires it always at this point.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #501 on: November 27, 2014, 04:05:02 pm »
Does it really matter how the input is coupled? ...Input source is a 125MHz crystal as mentioned.

BTW, just checked on my DS2000 and, yes, it can matter whether a crystal is DC or AC-coupled to the channel input.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 04:08:34 pm by marmad »
 

Offline sawmilkd

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #502 on: November 27, 2014, 04:08:14 pm »
I just updated my previous post regarding the beta firmware patch w/ a potential big issue. I have a DS1054Z, board version 0.1.1. Upon powering up this AM, everything "seemed" to be working fine (visibly triggering on my 20MHz test oscillator circuit from yesterday). However, none of the front panel buttons or knobs have any effect. They are all dead. Power cycling had no effect. The only way I was able to get control was to plug back in the USB stick I used last night to flash the new firmware BEFORE powering on the DS1054Z. The startup sequence was slightly different (a beep was present that is not normally there). After initialization, the firmware update box is presented (though it says it's the same version that's installed, but not the same version shown on the System information display). If I select cancel, the dialog box goes away, and the scope can be operated normally.

My DS1054Z is 100MHz unlocked. Perhaps there is a model mismatch causing trouble? Maybe Rigol was serious regarding beta status....

Anyone else experiencing this issue?

Yes, had the same. Also a lock up as you said after calibration. Restart fixed it. I think the beep means it has done a firmware update (I did it twice to be sure, happened both times).

Just did some power cycling testing. It appears that the scope does not respond to front panel input every other power cycle. I turned the scope off and on 10 times. Each time it alternated between responsive and non-responsive. Very strange indeed.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #503 on: November 27, 2014, 04:09:31 pm »
Just did some power cycling testing. It appears that the scope does not respond to front panel input every other power cycle. I turned the scope off and on 10 times. Each time it alternated between responsive and non-responsive. Very strange indeed.

Did you try clearing FRAM at bootup?
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #504 on: November 27, 2014, 04:13:42 pm »
I just updated my previous post regarding the beta firmware patch w/ a potential big issue. I have a DS1054Z, board version 0.1.1. Upon powering up this AM, everything "seemed" to be working fine (visibly triggering on my 20MHz test oscillator circuit from yesterday). However, none of the front panel buttons or knobs have any effect. They are all dead. Power cycling had no effect. The only way I was able to get control was to plug back in the USB stick I used last night to flash the new firmware BEFORE powering on the DS1054Z. The startup sequence was slightly different (a beep was present that is not normally there). After initialization, the firmware update box is presented (though it says it's the same version that's installed, but not the same version shown on the System information display). If I select cancel, the dialog box goes away, and the scope can be operated normally.

My DS1054Z is 100MHz unlocked. Perhaps there is a model mismatch causing trouble? Maybe Rigol was serious regarding beta status....

Anyone else experiencing this issue?

Yes, had the same. Also a lock up as you said after calibration. Restart fixed it. I think the beep means it has done a firmware update (I did it twice to be sure, happened both times).

Sorry, are you saying that your scope works now without requiring the USB stick to be inserted? Seems mine requires it always at this point.

Nope, just saw the same thing. Just locks up if you start without USB :(
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #505 on: November 27, 2014, 04:17:35 pm »
Does it really matter how the input is coupled? I just faithfully recreated what I did previously

The point is that you didn't faithfully recreate what Dave did - or how the bug was reported. Perhaps you've discovered a different bug - or a related one that has yet to be fixed - but it's not the conditions of the original bug.

Here you go.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #506 on: November 27, 2014, 04:20:42 pm »
Does it really matter how the input is coupled? I just faithfully recreated what I did previously

The point is that you didn't faithfully recreate what Dave did - or how the bug was reported. Perhaps you've discovered a different bug - or a related one that has yet to be fixed - but it's not the conditions of the original bug.

Here you go.

Thanks. Hopefully it will help them track down the problem with consistent conditions.
 

Offline nuno

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #507 on: November 27, 2014, 04:45:11 pm »
I think they should open all or most of the firmware and let the community fix it and improve it, they would sell many more units and mostly get rid of software support, supporting only an official simple version which noone would use anyway. I would pay more for such an "open" unit.
 

Offline sawmilkd

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #508 on: November 27, 2014, 04:46:23 pm »
Just did some power cycling testing. It appears that the scope does not respond to front panel input every other power cycle. I turned the scope off and on 10 times. Each time it alternated between responsive and non-responsive. Very strange indeed.

Did you try clearing FRAM at bootup?

Just tried. Still seems to alternate between power cycles.
 

Offline DarkLight

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #509 on: November 27, 2014, 04:50:12 pm »

It's Fixed for me too with 00.04.02.03.SP3

DS1074Z-S
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #510 on: November 27, 2014, 04:52:11 pm »
Just tried. Still seems to alternate between power cycles.

Strange; I don't have this issue at all on my MSO1074Z. Works fine without the USB stick. Perhaps it's a DS1054Z-only problem?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 04:53:45 pm by marmad »
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #511 on: November 27, 2014, 05:01:15 pm »
Just tried. Still seems to alternate between power cycles.

Strange; I don't have this issue at all on my MSO1074Z. Works fine without the USB stick. Perhaps it's a DS1054Z-only problem?

I am getting the semi-alternating lockup too. About 1 in 3-4 boots.
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #512 on: November 27, 2014, 05:05:10 pm »
I am getting the semi-alternating lockup too. About 1 in 3-4 boots.

This might be meaningful if we knew what model you have.  ;)
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #513 on: November 27, 2014, 05:07:29 pm »
It seems the interval is now ~33us, instead of 10us as previously. Model is DS1054Z (unlocked).





And jitter around the 'midpoint' ~17us



« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 06:20:46 pm by leppie »
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #514 on: November 27, 2014, 05:22:31 pm »
It seems the interval is now ~33us, instead of 10us as previously. Model is DS1054Z (unlocked).

So it appears all of the people that have reported issues with the Beta FW so far have been using DS1054Zs with non-standard bandwidth settings.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 05:24:48 pm by marmad »
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #515 on: November 27, 2014, 06:11:06 pm »
It seems the interval is now ~33us, instead of 10us as previously. Model is DS1054Z (unlocked).

So it appears all of the people that have reported issues with the Beta FW so far have been using DS1054Zs with non-standard bandwidth settings.

Non-standard, as in unlocked? Stupid question, how do I 'lock' it again? I dont mind, the bandwidth boost is merely convenient, I have a 200MHz TDS360. ;p 8MHz signal should not make any difference when 'stock'.

For anyone else who feels the beta firmware is not working, can they try increase the delay to see if they get it 'jitter free' at a much higher value than 10us?
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 06:14:27 pm by leppie »
 

Offline xnaron

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #516 on: November 27, 2014, 06:25:04 pm »
It seems the interval is now ~33us, instead of 10us as previously. Model is DS1054Z (unlocked).

So it appears all of the people that have reported issues with the Beta FW so far have been using DS1054Zs with non-standard bandwidth settings.

Non-standard, as in unlocked? Stupid question, how do I 'lock' it again? I dont mind, the bandwidth boost is merely convenient, I have a 200MHz TDS360. ;p 8MHz signal should not make any difference when 'stock'.

For anyone else who feels the beta firmware is not working, can they try increase the delay to see if they get it 'jitter free' at a much higher value than 10us?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/ds1000z-serie-unlocking/msg531698/#msg531698
 

Offline marmad

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #517 on: November 27, 2014, 06:32:46 pm »
Non-standard, as in unlocked? Stupid question, how do I 'lock' it again? I dont mind, the bandwidth boost is merely convenient, I have a 200MHz TDS360. ;p 8MHz signal should not make any difference when 'stock'.

There is no 'unlocked' - only stock. Rigol doesn't sell bandwidth upgrades (as they do the other options) - the exploit that is used by people is an unsupported and unused (officially) piece of FW code.
 

Offline 2A03

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #518 on: November 27, 2014, 07:57:04 pm »
I'm using MSO1104Z (hardware version 2.1.1).
I tried 00.04.02.SP3 beta firmware.

signal source is 25MHz crystal oscillator.

1) AC coupled trigger
was fixed.(maybe)

2) jitter problems.
doesn't fix issue.(It isn't related to coupled type or trigger mode.)

:(
 

Offline jkrichards

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #519 on: November 27, 2014, 08:02:12 pm »
It seems the interval is now ~33us, instead of 10us as previously. Model is DS1054Z (unlocked).

So it appears all of the people that have reported issues with the Beta FW so far have been using DS1054Zs with non-standard bandwidth settings.

Non-standard, as in unlocked? Stupid question, how do I 'lock' it again? I dont mind, the bandwidth boost is merely convenient, I have a 200MHz TDS360. ;p 8MHz signal should not make any difference when 'stock'.

For anyone else who feels the beta firmware is not working, can they try increase the delay to see if they get it 'jitter free' at a much higher value than 10us?

You can remove all options:
Just go to the UltraSigma Utility, send SCPI command
:SYSTem:OPTion:UNINSTall
and reboot the scope.
 

Offline Gilberto60

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #520 on: November 27, 2014, 08:31:26 pm »
I use Rigol ds1104Z (software version 00.02.03.Sp5) and I see the problem of AC trigger.
If I change the mode of acquisition in "Average" the problem disappears
I attach some pictures
 

Offline orin

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #521 on: November 27, 2014, 08:36:48 pm »
It seems the interval is now ~33us, instead of 10us as previously. Model is DS1054Z (unlocked).

So it appears all of the people that have reported issues with the Beta FW so far have been using DS1054Zs with non-standard bandwidth settings.


Not any more.

I just installed the Beta FW on an unmolested DS1054Z (pretty much straight out of the box) and it has the dead keypad every other restart problem.  FWIW, I tried flashing a second time and no difference.

Edit: It is worse than that.  Sometimes, the keypad is dead, sometimes it works and sometimes it acts like random keys are being pressed.

The 5uS jitter does appear to be fixed.  I haven't yet tried the AC trigger coupling.

Edit: AC trigger coupling works when the keypad works.


Orin.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2014, 09:02:49 pm by orin »
 

Offline mamalala

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #522 on: November 27, 2014, 10:30:24 pm »
I also have to revise my earlier post. While the jitter problem and the AC trigger problem is gone, i also have the keyboard not working on some power-ups. Most of the time it works, but every 3rd or 4th time it doesn't. Didn't notice that before because it worked after the restart, and i didn't try another restart after that.

Greetings,

Chris
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #523 on: November 27, 2014, 10:49:58 pm »
Same here, keyboard and knobs don't work about 1 in 3 times after boot, needs an off/on cycle to fix.

The AC coupled trigger problem is fixed though, and I never had the other fault.

The unit here is an MSO1074Z-S.
 

Offline orin

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #524 on: November 28, 2014, 01:13:32 am »
I started another thread in the Test Equipment forum.  In summary, my advice is:

Do not install the beta firmware!

It can cause your keyboard to stop working or act as if keys are being pressed randomly.
 


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