Author Topic: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems  (Read 427226 times)

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Offline jkrichards

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #825 on: December 24, 2014, 04:56:30 pm »
I have now received my new scope and have spent the last day or so getting to know how it works (well the basics anyway - it has a lot of options compared to my old analogue one!).

The details from the system menu are:

Software Version: 00.04.02.SP3
Board Version 0.1.1

That is not a new firmware version  :(

I already stated this in an earlier post.  Looks like Rigol is blowing smoke to their new customers as well as there current ones.  :palm:
 

Offline matt303

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #826 on: December 24, 2014, 05:59:06 pm »

I already stated this in an earlier post.  Looks like Rigol is blowing smoke to their new customers as well as there current ones.  :palm:

Sounds like communications from Rigol to their distributors is very poor, maybe even within Rigol, I'm sure a group of their engineers/managers are having a proper  :wtf: moment on how to handle this mess, especially as it's increasingly looking like a HW issue. I'm seriously holding off until we get a definitive review of a fixed unit from Dave and whatever software/board rev that is. I also hope that if they do change the values in the PLL circuit they at least have the decency to change the board rev number rather than trying to sneak it under the radar.


 

Offline kerrsmith

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #827 on: December 24, 2014, 06:57:51 pm »
I have just tried testing for the original jitter issue that started this thread and it appears my scope is not affected.  I followed what Hans and Dave did and got the following results:

First two images are at 9MHz and the second two at 1MHz with delays of 0us and 5us:
 

Offline jpalicke

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #828 on: December 24, 2014, 08:09:05 pm »
No screenshots right now, as I just yanked it and the new signal generator out of the boxes and gave them a quick test.  There is no 5us jitter on my unit (or any other jitter on the delayed signal for that matter).  AC Trigger Coupling jitter, however, is there.

F/W Version 00.04.02SP3
Board version:  0.2.3
 

Offline MarkL

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #829 on: December 24, 2014, 09:22:13 pm »
No screenshots right now, as I just yanked it and the new signal generator out of the boxes and gave them a quick test.  There is no 5us jitter on my unit (or any other jitter on the delayed signal for that matter).  AC Trigger Coupling jitter, however, is there.

F/W Version 00.04.02SP3
Board version:  0.2.3
Is this a DS1054Z?  If so, it's a new board rev.  I don't think we've seen that one yet.  Interesting.

Are you interested in doing the more sensitive sample clock test?

  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg566455/#msg566455

You can use Alessandro's program to do the FFT.
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #830 on: December 24, 2014, 09:27:57 pm »
No screenshots right now, as I just yanked it and the new signal generator out of the boxes and gave them a quick test.  There is no 5us jitter on my unit (or any other jitter on the delayed signal for that matter).  AC Trigger Coupling jitter, however, is there.

F/W Version 00.04.02SP3
Board version:  0.2.3
Is this a DS1054Z?  If so, it's a new board rev.  I don't think we've seen that one yet.  Interesting.

Are you interested in doing the more sensitive sample clock test?

  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg566455/#msg566455

You can use Alessandro's program to do the FFT.

They have funny board versions. It is different for the S and MSO models, kinda seems like the last number is the major version.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #831 on: December 24, 2014, 11:15:41 pm »
  There is no 5us jitter on my unit

It may be just masked and not fully corrected. To find out the truth you can capture a 1.2Mpt waveform and send to MarkL for FFT analysis. His code creates a  better resolved FFT at this time than Alessandro's program. I advise you to do so, otherwise some time down the road you may want to look at the spectrum of your signals and do a FFT and if the ADC clock  problem was not corrected in your firmware you will end up with junk FFT result and you will never know it was not your signal but your scope which produced the junk.
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Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #832 on: December 24, 2014, 11:26:13 pm »
  There is no 5us jitter on my unit

It may be just masked and not fully corrected. To find out the truth you can capture a 1.2Mpt waveform and send to MarkL for FFT analysis. His code creates a  better resolved FFT at this time than Alessandro's program. I advise you to do so, otherwise some time down the road you may want to look at the spectrum of your signals and do a FFT and if the ADC clock  problem was not corrected in your firmware you will end up with junk FFT result and you will never know it was not your signal but your scope which produced the junk.
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Offline RigolTechUSA

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #833 on: December 24, 2014, 11:31:26 pm »
Hello, sorry for the delay. Did some testing here on the newest code and it worked very well on a number of instruments including a customer unit that was experiencing some of the keyboard lockups. Engineering is finishing the testing and we should have the official release early next week. I will update you all again when we have it posted. Merry Christmas.

P.S. DS2 FW should follow closely after the DS1Z final release.
 

Offline jpalicke

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #834 on: December 25, 2014, 02:57:10 am »
Is this a DS1054Z?  If so, it's a new board rev.  I don't think we've seen that one yet.  Interesting.

Are you interested in doing the more sensitive sample clock test?

  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-683-rigol-ds1000z-ds2000-oscilloscope-jitter-problems/msg566455/#msg566455

You can use Alessandro's program to do the FFT.

Sorry, board version 0.1.1.  I have no idea where the heck I got the 0.2.3.

Sure, I can give it a shot on the FFT.

Joe
 

Offline AlessandroAU

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #835 on: December 25, 2014, 03:45:48 am »
  There is no 5us jitter on my unit

It may be just masked and not fully corrected. To find out the truth you can capture a 1.2Mpt waveform and send to MarkL for FFT analysis. His code creates a  better resolved FFT at this time than Alessandro's program.

Not true, presuming the long memory capture feature works for you can do a full 24m capture/ftt which would be 20 times greater spectral resolution than a 1.2m capture regardless of how its processed.
 

Offline MarkL

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #836 on: December 25, 2014, 04:40:39 am »
Hello, sorry for the delay. Did some testing here on the newest code and it worked very well on a number of instruments including a customer unit that was experiencing some of the keyboard lockups. Engineering is finishing the testing and we should have the official release early next week. I will update you all again when we have it posted. Merry Christmas.

P.S. DS2 FW should follow closely after the DS1Z final release.

That's good news.

Has it been verified that the ADF4360-7 PLL is now locked on the DS1Z?  (I.e., the LOCK status bit is now set?)
 

Offline Bud

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #837 on: December 25, 2014, 04:43:01 am »
Alessandro,
I made that determination because I was not able to get a high res spectrum using your program - I have attached a couple of screenshots. I first captured a 14Mpts waveform (first pic), then I zoomed in to the 100MHz carrier (second pic) and the zoomed picture had very crusty resolution, no way to see anything close to the carrier. In case there is a way to display the spectrum in better resolution can you pls advise how to configure the program for it.

Thks!
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 04:47:13 am by Bud »
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Offline AlessandroAU

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #838 on: December 25, 2014, 07:32:35 am »
Alessandro,
I made that determination because I was not able to get a high res spectrum using your program - I have attached a couple of screenshots. I first captured a 14Mpts waveform (first pic), then I zoomed in to the 100MHz carrier (second pic) and the zoomed picture had very crusty resolution, no way to see anything close to the carrier. In case there is a way to display the spectrum in better resolution can you pls advise how to configure the program for it.

Thks!

Thanks for the pictures, it helps me to confirm what functions are working. From the number of points it looks like its only downloaded the display buffer. Does the scope move into stop/single shot mode when you click capture? It should as in continuous run mode only the 1400pnt buffer can be downloaded. Maybe try pressing the stop button before capturing? I had to do some gymnastics to download the segment on my 1000 series, as despite what the programming guide says you can't download the entire buffer in one go. I'm sure the DS2000 series has similar bugs. From the total bytes requested it looks as if the program has asked 14 times (In 1 megabyte chunks) for the data and it was returned 1414 bytes the first time and zero for the subsequent times.

This means either the code for setting the WAV:START and WAV:STOP points needs to be done differently in the DS2000 series or the scope did not properly move into stop mode before attempting the download. Or I need to send some additional commands. Debugging is quite hard without access to the scope but it'll get there eventually.

If anyone is willing to be a big help; I need to know some details from the ds2000 series about how it handles its memory downloading process.

This would be the procedure: (commands can be sent through ultra-sigma)

Procedures of the internal memory waveform data reading:

S1. :STOP The internal memory waveform data can only be read in STOP state
S2. :WAV:SOURce CHAN1 Set the channel source to be read
S3. :WAV:MODE RAW Set the waveform mode to RAW
S4. :WAV:RESet Reset the waveform reading
S5. :WAV:BEGin Start the waveform reading
S6. WAV:START 1
S7. :WAV:STOP 1000000
S8  :WAV:DATA?

Thing to determine:

Increase WAVE:STOP until the scope returns zero waveform data, know this value.

Make sure the memory can be downloaded in segments, ie set waveform start to 1000001 and waveform stop to 2000000 on the second pass.

Do :WAV:RESet and :WAV:BEGin commands need to be resent before the second lot of memory is returned? Do they need to be sent once only, or even at all?
 

Offline Bud

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #839 on: December 25, 2014, 08:16:32 am »
Does the scope move into stop/single shot mode when you click capture? It should as in continuous run mode only the 1400pnt buffer can be downloaded. Maybe try pressing the stop button before capturing?

Yes the scope goes into stop then runs again when capturing. I also tried to stop manually before capture, same thing.
Also as I said before, I can only capture one time after program starts, subsequent captures fail - I have attached a screenshot, may be it will give you some information.

EDIT: Do you have the Rigol Programming Guide document called "DS2000A_ProgrammingGuide_EN.pdf"  ? There is a procedure to read waveforms there.
EDIT2: ....which I just tried in Ultra Sigma and it worked.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 09:00:18 am by Bud »
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Offline kwass

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #840 on: December 25, 2014, 10:23:22 pm »

Sorry, board version 0.1.1.  I have no idea where the heck I got the 0.2.3.


I think you read it from the screen!  I got the same thing on my 1054z on one occasion and the next time I looked at it it was back to 0.1.1.  There's something funky going on when displaying the board version.  Has anyone else noticed this?

-katie
 

Offline junktronix

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #841 on: December 26, 2014, 12:01:45 am »

Sorry, board version 0.1.1.  I have no idea where the heck I got the 0.2.3.


I think you read it from the screen!  I got the same thing on my 1054z on one occasion and the next time I looked at it it was back to 0.1.1.  There's something funky going on when displaying the board version.  Has anyone else noticed this?

Mine arrived 2 days ago and reported board rev 0.2.3.  After enabling all features it reports board rev 0.1.1.  I'll do the jitter test when I can get my hands on a 20MHz source.
 

Offline beNative

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #842 on: December 27, 2014, 08:40:28 pm »
I did some further testing in trying to reproduce the 5us jitter problem exactly like Dave demonstrated in his video but no 'You got to be... JITTING me' here  :-DMM

So just the AC trigger coupling jitter here but not as bad as with Dave's unit or other examples posted on the forum.

The good thing is that this issue probably will be resolved soon (well, if it can be solved with a firmware update at least...), as this scope will probably become the best selling scope to date and a huge amount of people will be involved in testing and reproducing issues. Rigol will soon have an amazing testing crew to report any issue  ;)

If Rigol is not able to solve the problems with a firmware update they can ship the unit with free 3D glasses to address the problem :)

As a hobby user I am really impressed by the value for this price. A 4 CH scope like this for less than 500$ makes thieves of everyone who buys it  :-DD
 

Offline AlessandroAU

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #843 on: December 28, 2014, 05:16:34 am »
I did some further testing in trying to reproduce the 5us jitter problem exactly like Dave demonstrated in his video but no 'You got to be... JITTING me' here  :-DMM

So just the AC trigger coupling jitter here but not as bad as with Dave's unit or other examples posted on the forum.

The good thing is that this issue probably will be resolved soon (well, if it can be solved with a firmware update at least...), as this scope will probably become the best selling scope to date and a huge amount of people will be involved in testing and reproducing issues. Rigol will soon have an amazing testing crew to report any issue  ;)

If Rigol is not able to solve the problems with a firmware update they can ship the unit with free 3D glasses to address the problem :)

As a hobby user I am really impressed by the value for this price. A 4 CH scope like this for less than 500$ makes thieves of everyone who buys it  :-DD

You cannot be sure no jitter issues exists unless you take an FFT of a captured waveform and observe no spurious frequencies.
 

Offline dworki

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #844 on: December 28, 2014, 02:11:55 pm »
OK, seems I'm not crazy then. Couple days ago, when my DS1054Z arrived I've quickly unpacked it and just checked whether it is working. OK I admit I couldn't have resisted looking before christmas:-) But the point is I woud swear it showed board version 0.2.2! Now when I finally have time to properly play with this beauty it "downgraded" to 0.1.1.  Strange thing is I have not installed any options yet, the only thing was I performed auto-cal. Both jitter problems are of course present but they do not spoil the joy from my first scope - not a bit:-)
 

Offline beNative

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #845 on: December 28, 2014, 07:43:09 pm »
There seems to be some confusion with the versions of the board/firmware/software. The unit I got (DS1054Z) last week has following versions:

Board Ver:0.1.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.3.7
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.2
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.04.02.SP3

These details are stored in a textfile when you press Storage -> Param -> Save.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #846 on: December 28, 2014, 08:00:49 pm »
There seems to be some confusion with the versions of the board/firmware/software. The unit I got (DS1054Z) last week has following versions:

Board Ver:0.1.1
Firmware Ver:0.2.3.7
BOOT Ver:0.0.1.2
CPLD Ver:1.1
SoftWare Ver:00.04.02.SP3

These details are stored in a textfile when you press Storage -> Param -> Save.
You might be quite correct that ppl that have their first DSO are not paying enough attention.
Somebody needs to check this by writing down the versions and later checking for proof that changes are taking place or not.  :-//

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Offline msraya

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #847 on: December 28, 2014, 08:13:07 pm »
Hello! Alexandro and Bud.

Quote
If anyone is willing to be a big help;

Yes, the DS/MSO1000Z behaves diferntly of DS/MSO2000. But It is explained in the Programmers Guide

Everyone complains that the download process is poorly explained in the programmer's guide or it has bugs. I am a professional software developer with many years of experience with this type of equipment, but really the explanation is easy to understand.

Yesterday I was programming it and it works perfectly until 12Mpoints. But the process is very different from the DS2000 download. Due to lack of resources 1000Z series, it is necessary stopping the capture FPGa and To dedicate the processor to perform the data transfer. You can not operate the scope while the transfer is in process.

The code I wrote for a VISA32.DLL WIndows 7 application is (I must debug it more) is:

Code: [Select]

                send_cmd(vi, ":STOP");
send_cmd(vi, ":ACQUIRE:MDEPTH?");
std::string result = recv_text(vi);
int capture_bytes = atoi(result.c_str());
printf("Total_bytes: %d\n",capture_bytes);
getchar();

send_cmd(vi,":WAVEFORM:SOURCE CHAN1");
send_cmd(vi,":WAVEFORM:MODE RAW");
send_cmd(vi,":WAVEFORM:START 1");
if (capture_bytes<120000) {
sprintf(cadena,":WAVEFORM:STOP %d",capture_bytes);
send_cmd(vi,cadena);
}
else send_cmd(vi,":WAVEFORM:STOP 120000");

FILE *f = fopen(filename, "w");
if (f == NULL) {
fprintf(stderr, "Cannot open file '%s' for writing!\n", filename);
exit(1);
}

int total_bytes = capture_bytes;
int next_num_bytes;
printf("Downloading..\n");
fflush(stdout);

while (1)
{
unsigned char progress[4]={'|','/','-','\\'};
//send_cmd(vi, ":WAVEFORM:STATUS?");
//std::string status = recv_text(vi);

send_cmd(vi, ":WAVEFORM:DATA?");
unsigned char *header = recv_data(vi, 11);

int num_bytes = atoi((char*)header + 2);
unsigned char *data = recv_data(vi, num_bytes + 1);

if (!strcmp(cmd, "DOWNLOAD_TXT")) {
for (int i = 0; i < num_bytes; i++)
fprintf(f, "%d\n", (unsigned char)data[i]);
} else
fwrite(data, num_bytes, 1, f);
total_bytes-=num_bytes;
printf("%02d%% \(%c)\r",(i*12000000)/capture_bytes,progress[i%4]);
i++;
fflush(stdout);

free(header);
free(data);

if ((total_bytes-num_bytes)>0) next_num_bytes=num_bytes;
else next_num_bytes=total_bytes;

if ((total_bytes)>0) {
sprintf(cadena,":WAVEFORM:STOP %d",(i*120000)+next_num_bytes);
send_cmd(vi,cadena);
sprintf(cadena,":WAVEFORM:START %d",(i*120000)+1);
send_cmd(vi,cadena);
}
else {
printf("\n.. Se acabo!!\n");
break;
   }
}

fclose(f);

printf("Written %d bytes to file (%s).\n\n", capture_bytes, !strcmp(cmd, "DOWNLOAD_TXT") ? "ascii" : "binary");

I download in chunks of 120K points via USB, but it can be other size. Greater size can accelerate the download process, I must test it...

This code is included into a modification that I am working, to the LINUX Clifford Wolf Shell for the DS2000. I will post the final shell for the DS/MSO-S series, I own a MSO1074-S. The DS2000 Shell for Windows is here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/automatize-yourself-rigol-visa-win32-ultraeasy-demo-in-dev-c/

Regards
Manuel
« Last Edit: December 28, 2014, 08:26:23 pm by msraya »
 

Offline Bud

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #848 on: December 29, 2014, 01:33:47 am »
Thank you  Manuel, hopefully  Alessandro could use bits from your code for DS2000 data download.
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Offline msraya

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Re: EEVblog #683 - Rigol DS1000Z & DS2000 Oscilloscope Jitter Problems
« Reply #849 on: December 29, 2014, 09:29:29 am »
Bud:

Your Welcome. But the DS2000 code is not mine, is from author Clifford Wolf.
The DS1000Z code its mine, based in the DS2000 code  ;D

I hope my Dev-C++ examples can help and promote the use of Instrumentation Automation. It is easy!! 
And the use of pure WinApi Programming.

To Share is to Live!!  :D
Regards
Manuel
 


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