Author Topic: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag  (Read 32381 times)

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Offline Thilo78

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #75 on: January 04, 2015, 10:30:40 am »
[...]
 Now I believe in most European countries it is common to use unfused plugs and a 15A radial circuit so all your cables must be capable of carrying 15A up to the point of the internal fuse in a device.
[...]

That's correct, at least for what I can tell for Germany.

Usually in domestic installation (industrial or power distribution will be significally different), you will have a distribution system, which is not accessible to the common user.
Only the final distribution board, located e.g. in the apartment, would be accessible to the user.
Also, we do not use fuses, but Miniature Circuit Breakers, which can be safely operated without accessing the actual circuitry or exposing live parts.

Most commonly, the distribution board will be supplied via a 32A MCB, located in the house's MDB. (Old MDBs might still have screw-in fuses of D02 type)
Behind that, you will have 16 A MCBs for sockets and lighting, and maybe some 20A or 25A 3-phase MCB for stoves and heating.
Thus, all the installation has to be rated for 16A up to the socket (which has to be of Schuko type).
From there you can deviate. Schuko will always be 16A rated, the smaller Euro plug is 5A rated, if I remember correctly.

Mobile appliances might have additional fuses inside, if this is necessary due to their rating. A common use here is a glass fuse rated 250V with smaller amps rating like 200mA, 500mA, 1A etc.

btw: As far as I know, the British Standard ring structure is illegal in Germany. (Correct me, if I'm wrong)
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2015, 10:38:32 am »
Only 32A mains supply! Here the standard is an 80A breaker in the tap off unit after the meter, and a consumer side 60A breaker. On overhead lines the fuse is typically 100A, just because of the derating required to carry 60A at high ambient in summer. 16mm cable to the consumer distribution board, then socket outlets are supplied ( after the mandatory ground fault breaker) via 20A breakers, using 2.5mm cabling. Stoves and water heating are supplied via a dedicated breaker for each, typically 40A for the stove and 20A for the water heater. Lighting is done with 1.5mm cable using typically a 10A breaker.
 

Offline Tandy

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2015, 11:59:09 am »
Would it be against code to make a plug with a smaller physical fuse size, or is the requirement simply that the plug needs to be fused? (Ie, is the equal fuse size a rule or just a recommendation?)
Unfortunately the fuse type is covered by the regulation BS1362.
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Offline fvdpol

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2015, 02:19:53 pm »
.....
As suggestion, the postcards could be collected and shown in a final steady shot of a few seconds at the end of the Mailbag segment

Second for that! Great idea!
 

Offline PinheadBE

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #79 on: January 05, 2015, 09:05:25 am »

a) Every single wall socket has an on/off switch (if it's a double socket you get two switches). It's unbelievably handy, I don't know why other countries don't have this.

Absolutely!  :-+
I'd like to see this on our european sockets as well.
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Offline Stonent

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #80 on: January 06, 2015, 03:49:23 pm »
The UK system allows for example a lamp to have a thin and therefore more flexible and less obtrusive 3A rated cable if the plug is fitted with a 3A fuse.

With a massive plug on the end :)
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Offline lewis

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #81 on: January 06, 2015, 09:56:16 pm »
With a massive plug on the end :)

There is no single pain on this earth greater than standing on an upturned BS1363 barefoot in the early hours of the morning.
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Offline deth502

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #82 on: January 07, 2015, 12:16:21 am »
The shutters on that socket are indeed activated by the earth pin. They're a one-piece plastic moulding in a runner, with a bevelled tip for the earth pin. They simply get pushed out of the way against a spring when you insert the plug.

By the way, you seem to have been attempting to check continuity between contacts and terminals with the switch off. Not only were you probing the line pin, but that is almost certainly a dual pole switch, so even with the shutters open, you'd get nowhere like that on either side. ;)

If you want to open it you'll have to drill out the rivets holding the earth bar on the back, the ones in the screw holes. Alternatively, just crack the whole plate off with a hammer or something.

E: Actually, that may be a socket which requires both live pins to open the shutter, not the earth. More prone to jamming.


only read the first page, so i dont know if this was mentioned or not, but there are similar plugs in the us now. i bought a pack of 10 by accident during a recent rewire job, and i must say, they are absolutely horrible. you nearly need a hammer to get the plugs inserted, and once the plastic shutters give way, it sounds like they have just snapped and broke off. but no such luck, they are still there.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #83 on: January 07, 2015, 03:37:00 am »
only read the first page, so i dont know if this was mentioned or not, but there are similar plugs in the us now. i bought a pack of 10 by accident during a recent rewire job, and i must say, they are absolutely horrible. you nearly need a hammer to get the plugs inserted, and once the plastic shutters give way, it sounds like they have just snapped and broke off. but no such luck, they are still there.

Continuing the US tradition of having the worst electrical accessories in the world, I see.
 

Offline itdontgo

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #84 on: January 08, 2015, 12:56:11 pm »
The mini-teardowns are the best bit of mail bag.  I can open my own mail  ;)

Offline hikariuk

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #85 on: January 08, 2015, 04:26:58 pm »
The UK plug is quite crazy, 32A for no good reason means a waste of copper in the house wiring (was it historically 110V?), too big a plug, and so on...

Actually UK wiring is done using ring circuits specifically to save copper in the post WW2 period.  A 30A fuse used to be used to be protect the circuit, nowadays it's a 32A breaker. 

Mains voltage has been 240V since the national grid was created way back whenever, afaik.  Before that there were various voltages and connectors in use.
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Offline hikariuk

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #86 on: January 08, 2015, 04:28:35 pm »
Only 32A mains supply! Here the standard is an 80A breaker in the tap off unit after the meter, and a consumer side 60A breaker. On overhead lines the

The incoming supply in the UK is 100A.
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Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #87 on: January 08, 2015, 04:32:01 pm »
Only 32A mains supply! Here the standard is an 80A breaker in the tap off unit after the meter, and a consumer side 60A breaker. On overhead lines the

The incoming supply in the UK is 100A.

Or 60A, or 80A, or more, or less. Single phase, split phase, three phase..

There is no one type of supply.
 

Offline EvilGeniusSkis

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Re: EEVblog #697 - Mailbag
« Reply #88 on: January 23, 2015, 03:00:37 am »
In Canada have the plugs in our kitchens are wired so that in a standard duplex receptacle  the top and bottom sockets are on different phases and fed from a 2 pole breaker but share a common neutral in addition to this, each receptacle in a kitchen has it's own breaker. This has 2 advantages, 1 is that you can plug 2 high power appliances in to the same receptacle at the same time (ex: coffee maker and a toaster) without the breaker blowing, the 2nd it that the current that the neutral carries is only the difference between the currents used by the two appliances. [ex: if one appliance draws 10A and the other draws 4A then the neutral only carries 6A]
here is a picture i found explaining it
 


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