EEVblog #699 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Jitter Fix Testing

[Agent24]

I've seen so many blown CapXons on Badcaps.net and replaced many myself, mostly in LCD monitors.  I don't know which brand Dave thinks is worse than CapXon, maybe Samxon, but AFAIK they are actually better, though the Samxon GF series seem to be pretty horrible.

To be fair, the majority of blown CapXon caps are put in applications they are grossly under-spec'd for in the first place, so a large part of their failure is due to negligent design from the downstream product engineering: if you take the best caps ever made and run them at 4-10X their rated ripple current in an environment where they may be exposed to temperatures over 80C, as is often the case in poorly designed SMPS, they will fail prematurely too. The products could also be engineered for failure: stress the caps just enough to guarantee the PSU will fail soon after the warranty expires.

It's possible, but I am not sure they are overstressed. In the same LCD PSUs I repaired where all the CapXons where blown, there were also a couple of Taicon capacitors on the PSU outputs that were still just fine with ESR well in spec and everything.

Same goes for a certain Delta Electronics PSU from an HP Proliant server. A mixture of UCC, LTec and a CapXon. Guess which one was blown?

In the same environment, where one brand of capacitor fails while the others do not, and that brand fails consistently in many other devices, it does not suggest to me that the design is the problem.

[tautech]

and what would you expect from a $500 scope ?

I would expect that they had checked that their phase locked loops were actually locked! If not just stuff an RC oscillaroe in there!

Ditto for a $200 scope.

If their engineering appears to be, um, "slapdash" in one area then it probably is in others too.

Like the awful quality CapXon capacitors all through the power supply?

Really. 
Oh dear.

Can others confirm this?
Agent24 can you post a photo?

It's probably not going well with your Siglent sales is it ? 

The Fact that a major Asian manufacturer is using these famous caps might not concern you but is sure as hell concerns me.
Let's hope others don't follow. 

@ Orange
I have supplied Rigol product, that's the reason I have an interest.

[DanielS]

In the same environment, where one brand of capacitor fails while the others do not, and that brand fails consistently in many other devices, it does not suggest to me that the design is the problem.

You need to check the actual specs of the capacitors and the actual current going through them if you can actually find the specs. Just the brand does not say much - if your mixed-bag PSU with various brands in various stages of blowing up are on different rails at different stages of power filtering (separated by inductors for example) then the ripple they get exposed to can be drastically different.

I have seen flyback power supplies with only a pair of caps rated at 900mA each for decoupling on a 25A output; clearly not intended to run anywhere near 100% load for any length of time. Many of the cheap PSUs I have repaired had caps that I cannot identify due to unfamiliar logos (if any) and model tag (if any) that do not match the brand so most likely do not match the spec they appear to be intended to be spoofs of.

[jeroent]

The board version on my DS1054Z jumped from 0.2.3 to 0.1.1 after the firmware upgrade. Weird...

[Neddie]

Done the upgrade to my hacked DS2072A (ie 2302A :0) )  FW now reads 03.03.sp1 HW 2.0
AC trigger issue fixed.
5uS Jitter issue not fixed :0( , better , but not fixed.

[Neddie]

Sorry , my bad. Jumped the gun a little there.
No 5uS jitter , just a crap sig gen 
Thanks Teneyes for making me check again !!!
Neddie

[Dutch RC]

Hi Way more skilled friends,

I'm Jasper a RC fan and I'm looking for a scope, yes I can go to ebay and try to find a analog scope instead of the DSO Nano I was looking for first. No I'm not going those ways, on ebay or our national trading website there aren't many scopes for sale, when I find one it's 150€ plus 70€ shipping. That's without probes.

So I think I want this Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope, why? Don't know because many say it's a good scope for beginners. And that's exactly what I am, a complete noob with some really basic electronics knowledge.

Then why do I want a scope? Well because I want to measure noise on drone power systems and latency on FPV camera's and systems.

I probably can use something more basic, though I want to get something I can use for many years, I can only spend each euro once so better do it right the first time..

Now why do I come here? Because I need to know if this can be done and where to find more information on what else I can use it for in my RC hobby, life whatever.

So please, is this suitable and future proof for a complete noob like me?

I'm open for any suggestions,

Best regards,

Jasper

[Dutch RC]

So I went through the some local shops websites and came across this Owon XDS3064E

It's the same price as the Rigol DS1054Z and because I'm a noob I don't know which one is the better one to get.

Please any help would be appreciated, for me it's all a bunch of numbers without meaning. The Owon has a larger screen but I can't find reviews about it.

[Brumby]

If the numbers don't mean anything to you, then I have to wonder if you are really ready to buy a scope.  IMO, you should at least know what the main specifications are all about before parting with funds.

Also, you might be better off posting your questions in the Beginners section.  Not every member here reads every thread.

You might also want to try using the forum's Search feature to see what has already been said.  Sometimes reading over a previous discussion on a subject can provide useful information - and sometimes that is information you didn't know you needed to know.

[Dutch RC]

Hi Brumby,

You are right I should learn the numbers, I didn't want to make a new thread because I thought this already was the one i was going to buy.
I want to measure latency and noise on power systems so I think i need a scope, Best way for me to learn is "hands on" and not by reading tons of posts with numbers that don't mean anything for me because I can't see, feel and smell what's going on.

I will watch the basics again on youtube and start another thread, Probably the ###no for beginners wanting a scope, I went through several already but like I said, I don't know which numbers "I" need for what "I" want to do.

I will try to search for "Latency'and "Noise" and maybe I learn something new.

THANKS!! 

Regards,

Jasper

[Brumby]

This thread is more for discussion about Dave's video, as mentioned in the title.  What it presents and what is discussed here can be helpful in deciding if the scope mentioned is worthy of your consideration - but that's not the primary reason for this thread's existence.

To cut a long story short, the 1054Z would likely be a good choice that would take care of your basic needs ... and for when you start getting a handle on stuff.   By the time you work out that you need something better, you will know what features and specifications to look for - but it is not impossible that the specifications of the 1054Z will serve you for many years.