Author Topic: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary  (Read 40245 times)

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Offline Ericho

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2015, 06:01:00 pm »
 :) Great review. Thank you Dave  :-+
Mine is been on order for a while. I'm even more confident now that I didn't waste my €300 Euro (ex VAT)
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2015, 06:21:00 pm »
Will you test the performance of the probes too? I found them quite shitty vs my 250MHz Texas probes when I looked at a 125MHz crystal. They had about 6db loss compared to the Texas ones at that speed.

I see the same issue with the RP2200 probes. They do seem to not match their rating but I have no way to really test them yet. All I know is when I compare a square wave with them against an RP3300 probe there is a big difference in the waveform on the screen. If the RP2200 probes are 150MHz then I would not expect to see such a difference. I will try to post images later.
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2015, 01:57:10 am »
If I get a job I applied for the other day, I think I'll be upgrading the DS1052E to one of the Z models. It's just too tempting, and I want the lab to be good for the following 10 years without huge multihundred spendings if possible, for personal finance reasons  :-+
 

Offline eV1Te

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2015, 04:37:34 pm »
I have owned the DS1074Z-s since it came out, it truly is amazing how much you get for your money!

Though here is a few complaints, which might help anyone looking for this scope and want to know what the limitations are.

The responsiveness, or lack thereof. Turning any knob to change a setting or value has enormous delay and the "knob-acceleration" is highly non-linear so if you turn the horizontal knob to fast the waveform can jump a few screen-widths away in just a quarter of a turn.

This makes the built in signal generator difficult to use, since you can not reliably turn any knobs in order to change frequency or amplitude, it is way to slow and sketchy. It is faster to enter the value manually, which still requires you to use the same unresponsive knob to scroll through a table of numbers.

The serial decoder can be close to useless for transmissions with large packages. It only decodes the points available on the screen, not what is in the memory. Hence you can not decode anything longer than a few bytes since the number of points in the screen buffer is very small (you can see this in one of Daves videos, all decoded values becomes FF FF or somethin random when he increases the horizontal to see more data). And scrolling through the data horizontally does not work either since the start of the transmission then goes of screen and the decoder loses sync.

However with a lot patients and time on your hands (as an armature hobbyist) this is an excellent instrument! I would however recommend an Agilent... sorry... Keysight scope for more serious work, since it has true hardware accelerated maths functions and a much more responsive user interface that would save you much time in the long run.
 

Offline max_torque

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2015, 05:07:24 pm »
I've also noticed on my 74Z, that it only updates the screen buffer in "stop" mode when you touch one of the control knobs (usually you hit stop, then use the horizontal offset knob to scroll sideways through the memory buff).  If you've had a waveform that has been hetrodyneing on screen, then as soon as you touch the knobs, the second false trace disappears off the screen!

I've also found something weird with the triggering, where simply turning on another channel (which reduces the sample rate) causes a previously locked trigger to unlock and loose the signal completely.  It seems quite difficult to recreate this bug however.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #30 on: January 18, 2015, 06:41:53 pm »
Yes, the on only screen logic decoding is a bit of a disappointment. I purchased this scope with the logic decoding function in mind and it appeared that it did it from memory from what I read. To find it does not means I am on the search for a logic analyzer again. It is a good thing that I did not pay for the logic decoding functions. I certainly can't complain about the over package for the price.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #31 on: January 18, 2015, 08:17:58 pm »
The only complaints I have are in the user interface. The stupid do-everything knob in particular. It's very easy to move the knob in a menu selection and select the wrong item.

IMHO the right-side menu buttons should work like this:

Press button to open menu.
Use blue arrows to go up/down in that menu.
Press the menu button a second time to close the menu.

That would leave the multi-function knob almost redundant, yes, but I don't think I'd miss it.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #32 on: January 18, 2015, 09:46:15 pm »
Here is a screen shot with an RP3300 on channel one (yellow) and an RP2200 on channel two (blue). Yes both probes were adjusted for compensation at the same time, yes I have tried swapping what channels the probes are connected too, and yes I have verified this on my DS1052E modified to 100MHz. I have also verified that all my 4 RP2200 probes exhibit the same response as well as my 2 RP3300 probes have the same response.

So you can see that within the capabilities of the DS1054Z, hacked to 100MHz, that the RP2200 probes do have a visible and real performance limitation. Does this affect the performance of the whole system so that it is below 100MHz, ie. lower than 3db at 100MHz? I cannot say because I do not have anything with fast enough rise time nor anything with high enough frequency output with a flat response to actually measure the bandwidth of the input system.

Dave made the assertion in the full features review that the RP2200 probes will not limit the performance of the scope. Well I would really like to know if this is true or not. And if they do limit the performance, which it is apparent they do, is it enough of a limit that lowers the bandwidth below the rated bandwidth of the scope?

Perhaps these probes were included to actually provide more roll off and help with the under sampling problem when using 3 or 4 channels.
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #33 on: January 19, 2015, 03:35:38 am »
Here is a screen shot with an RP3300 on channel one (yellow) and an RP2200 on channel two (blue). Yes both probes were adjusted for compensation at the same time, yes I have tried swapping what channels the probes are connected too, and yes I have verified this on my DS1052E modified to 100MHz. I have also verified that all my 4 RP2200 probes exhibit the same response as well as my 2 RP3300 probes have the same response.

So you can see that within the capabilities of the DS1054Z, hacked to 100MHz, that the RP2200 probes do have a visible and real performance limitation. Does this affect the performance of the whole system so that it is below 100MHz, ie. lower than 3db at 100MHz? I cannot say because I do not have anything with fast enough rise time nor anything with high enough frequency output with a flat response to actually measure the bandwidth of the input system.

Dave made the assertion in the full features review that the RP2200 probes will not limit the performance of the scope. Well I would really like to know if this is true or not. And if they do limit the performance, which it is apparent they do, is it enough of a limit that lowers the bandwidth below the rated bandwidth of the scope?

Perhaps these probes were included to actually provide more roll off and help with the under sampling problem when using 3 or 4 channels.

A 2MHz signal is not going to tell you much. Test them on a fast scope with a 150MHz signal.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #34 on: January 19, 2015, 04:17:37 am »
I think I just said that I have no way to test any better right now.  :palm:

The 2MHz signal is a square wave so it has much higher frequency content that 2MHz. So it does demonstrate a real difference in the response of the two different models of probes. I didn't write the whole message with all the qualifiers for nothing.
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2015, 05:18:55 am »
I think I just said that I have no way to test any better right now.  :palm:

The 2MHz signal is a square wave so it has much higher frequency content that 2MHz. So it does demonstrate a real difference in the response of the two different models of probes. I didn't write the whole message with all the qualifiers for nothing.

Picking out the high frequency content to make a comparison is IMO way harder than comparing the amplitude.

I did not mean you had to do it, but Dave and many others should be able to test.



 

Offline phenol

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2015, 06:44:46 am »
Do the ground leads have the same length?
The system BW (scope and probe) is different from the BW of the scope alone. it goes like this:
1/BWsys=sqrt[(1/BWscope)^2+(1/BWprobe)^2]
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2015, 03:00:19 pm »
I tested again. Making sure the Texas probe was correctly 'compensated' (I accidentally changed the high frequency pots previously  :palm:).

There indeed not much difference in amplitude (on my TDS360), maybe 5-10% less on the Rigol probe.

So I guess they are 150MHz as claimed.
 

Offline Lightages

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #38 on: January 19, 2015, 05:42:16 pm »
Do the ground leads have the same length?
The system BW (scope and probe) is different from the BW of the scope alone. it goes like this:
1/BWsys=sqrt[(1/BWscope)^2+(1/BWprobe)^2]

The outward appearance of the two different models is the same. The ground leads are the same length. And I did say system bandwidth.
 

Offline ultranalog

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #39 on: January 19, 2015, 09:53:50 pm »
Well, you've gone and done it now. The largest distributor in Europe (batronix) has completely sold out its stock of 1054z's in two days  :-DD

Luckily mine's already on the way  :-+
playing around with near DC (20 kHz) for fun and profit
 

Offline pickle9000

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2015, 10:00:18 pm »
I wonder how many are coming off the production line every month?
 

Offline MacAttak

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2015, 01:24:38 am »
Thanks Dave for reviewing this new model. Upgrading from my DS1052E is a no-brainer.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2015, 02:07:02 am »
Well, you've gone and done it now. The largest distributor in Europe (batronix) has completely sold out its stock of 1054z's in two days  :-DD

Why the hell aren't I making money from this?  :palm:
 

Offline teslafan

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2015, 02:18:29 am »
Rigol should give u a piece of the action, a commission, a cut at least!  :clap:
 

Offline pickle9000

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2015, 02:54:23 am »
Rigol should give u a piece of the action, a commission, a cut at least!  :clap:

We could certainly stuff five bucks in an envelope (write ds1054z on it) and mail it to Dave directly. Not much of a commission but couldn't hurt. 
 

Offline leppie

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2015, 03:40:09 am »
I am so glad I pre-ordered from TEquipment when they 'accidentally' put up the product page initially.  ^-^
 

Offline ultranalog

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2015, 08:53:57 am »
We could certainly stuff five bucks in an envelope (write ds1054z on it) and mail it to Dave directly. Not much of a commission but couldn't hurt.

Excellent suggestion - Done! (if you can call paypal an envelope)
playing around with near DC (20 kHz) for fun and profit
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2015, 09:04:02 am »
Dave made the assertion in the full features review that the RP2200 probes will not limit the performance of the scope. Well I would really like to know if this is true or not. And if they do limit the performance, which it is apparent they do, is it enough of a limit that lowers the bandwidth below the rated bandwidth of the scope?

Just shot a video on this. The result is practically identical between the two probes. Not only on the rigol, but 3 other scopes as well.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2015, 09:28:06 am »
You can have the money or the trust and confidence of the viewing audience. Not both. You chose wisely.

I did get a scope for free, a whopping $399 worth, so confidence in me is already shot  ;D
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #703 - Rigol DS1054Z Oscilloscope Review Summary
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2015, 09:54:41 am »
Actually, I wasn't going to get the scope for free, but they eventually said don't bother sending back, as it's not worth it to them to have it shipped back  :o
 


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