Author Topic: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!  (Read 123242 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Trax

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 119
  • Country: at
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #200 on: January 27, 2015, 06:47:53 am »
"I want to believe" in overunity.

why?

Because without it and Q-thrusters and EM drives we are stuck to this solar system.

Why, 100 k years to get to the other side of the galaxy isn't that long, haven't you always wanted to watch all videos on youtube during your flight from A to B?
Or read all books ever written?

Some small nuclear reactor, or normal hot fusion reactor is enough to power some live support machines for 100k years,
you just need to work on human longevity and you will not be stuck to this solar system no Mather how slow you travel.

And in contrary to breaking the energy conservation laws there are no known fundamental limitations to human longevity, achieving (a)biological immortality is just a Mather of some more technological progress and once its done subjecting your natural biological body to enough treatments and augmentations.

Edit: and of cause before all living long enough to be still alive when this technology's will become available.

Trax


Oh, but those Lifetime @ Temperature ratings of Electrolytic Capacitors just kill it.  :(

Bullshit, you of cause use some machine with self repair capabilities, for example a system that contains recycling and manufacturing plants and a few hundred drones to operate and repair/replace broken parts.
And of cause the drones would also be subject to replacement/repair.


Also coming back to your initial assertion:
Quote
Because without it and Q-thrusters and EM drives we are stuck to this solar system.

Why do you think you need overunity to leave the solar system?
Why not just use some good old space warping drive that can operate on some amount of energy you can generate by normal means like hot fusion or from a tank of anti mater?

At what point would you be Dependant on an infinite energy source?

Trax
 

Offline RobertoLG

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 361
  • Country: br
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #201 on: January 27, 2015, 07:21:48 am »
no ZPM?  ;D
 

Offline vlad777

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 326
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #202 on: January 27, 2015, 07:51:19 am »
@Trax

You have proposed many amazing technologies but I proposed just one.
Not that I don't like a good sci-fi setup.
100K years is just too much, any technology you put in your space ship would be obsolete in 20 years.
Look at Rosetta spacecraft, it has a camera of 4 megapixels because 10 years ago they couldn't do better.
And also there are 100 billion other galaxies.
Mind over matter. Pain over mind. Boss over pain.
-------------------------
 

Offline SaintGimp

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 17
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #203 on: January 27, 2015, 08:08:44 am »
What I never understand about free energy/overunity people is why they work so hard to convince everyone else on the basis of silly Youtube videos and the like.  If they've got something real, then just build a house-scale system, disconnect from the grid, call the news reporters a year later, and collect your Nobel Prize and billions in royalties.

But instead all the passion goes into convincing everyone that there's some kind of conspiracy to keep us all oppressed or something.  They just sit around saying, "Yes sir, everything would be awesome except for the bloody oil companies suppressing the truth!"

I think many of these people really do believe the nonsense they push, at least on the surface.  But the reason why no one ever builds anything practical (i.e. solves a real-world problem over significant periods of time) is because deep down they suspect that maybe it doesn't really work.  They intuitively understand that the shortest path to cashing out with some money is always convincing some foolish investor on the strength of a charismatic pitch rather than the strength of, say, not having paid any electric or fuel bills lately.

Just build the damn thing and have done with it already.

And Dave, your rants are always entertaining, but this video also taught me a lot about circuit analysis and inductors so thumbs up both ways!
 

Offline IshtarTor

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 6
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #204 on: January 27, 2015, 10:24:16 am »
Much respect also for the, in my view, respectful way you give feedback and comment to those who are completely ignorant or full of …
(solar roadways, grafeen capacitors, free energy etc). That must mean something, as i'm from the Netherlands and apparently regarded as being 'direct'  :)

Not respectful enough for many it seems, I get many complaints about my delivery and direct tactless nature.
My care factor is zero, my style is my style ;D
I like it like that. It's way more fun. Those who are "offended" are those who feel attacked by the content of the video, because you show their ignorance in full light. And it's worthwhile because it's an informative video.

Keep it like this, no bullshit is the right way.

And yes, I subscribed just to say that. :)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 10:44:37 am by IshtarTor »
 

Offline Don Hills

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 159
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #205 on: January 27, 2015, 10:37:20 am »
Dave Wing, I'm trying to understand your circuit.
- 3 12 volt batteries, 1 amp-hour capacity.
- A fan that draws 1 amp when 12 volts is applied to it.
- Wire them up according to your diagram.
- For simplicity, let us assume perfect batteries. If you allow a current of 1 amp to flow, they will take 1 hour to discharge. If you apply a charging current of 1 amp, they will take 1 hour to charge. (I wish...)

Dave,  can you enlighten me by answering these 5 questions?

1: How long will the fan run before the 2 batteries go flat?

- When the 2 batteries run flat, attach the fan across the 3rd battery.

2: How long will it run for?
3: What is the total time of the two runs?

4: The second run is powered by the energy recovered during the first run - energy that would have otherwise been lost. It's the same energy that was used by the fan in the first run. Is that correct?

- Now recharge the 2 batteries. Connect them in parallel, not series. Connect the fan across them.

5: How long will the fan run for?

Regards...
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 10:39:56 am by Don Hills »
 

Offline IshtarTor

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 6
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #206 on: January 27, 2015, 10:42:01 am »
No thanks. That won't be necessary. I understand the relation very well, and it's irrelevance to the subject. I eagerly await batteries which extract electricity from mass.
It's an atomic pile, also called an atomic reactor. It doesn't extract electricity, but energy from the fission of atoms, which is used to heat water vapor, which is then converted to electrity via turbines. Apart from chemical reactions, there is no physical effect that allows direct conversion from mass to electric energy AFAIK.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 10:45:55 am by IshtarTor »
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31342
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #207 on: January 27, 2015, 10:46:59 am »
What I never understand about free energy/overunity people is why they work so hard to convince everyone else on the basis of silly Youtube videos and the like.  If they've got something real, then just build a house-scale system, disconnect from the grid, call the news reporters a year later, and collect your Nobel Prize and billions in royalties.

Because they don't work  ::)

Like these losers nobody ever heard from again:
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31342
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #208 on: January 27, 2015, 10:54:54 am »
I like it like that. It's way more fun. Those who are "offended" are those who feel attacked by the content of the video, because you show their ignorance in full light. And it's worthwhile because it's an informative video.

That was my intention, make it an informative video. I could have done a Blab video and just shout and scream facepalm, but that would have been a waste of time because:
a) these people don't care
and
b) it's not technically informative
 

Offline MBY

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 146
  • Country: se
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #209 on: January 27, 2015, 12:56:24 pm »
Explain something to me please. If you power a light bulb directly across one 12 volt battery and it draws one amp at 12 volts. Where is the current going? What gets converted into light and heat?

-Dave Wing
Aaargh! Kirchhoff's current law is not a power or energy law! How can a bulb glow, if the current into the wire before it is 1 amp, and the current out of the wire is 1 amp?

Your question is fundamentally wrong. Nothing besides the chemical energy in the batteries are converted to light and heat, and the current return path is retardedly hindered by a back-to-front battery needing another battery to compensate!

Naturally the low side back-to-front battery will charge. If the lamp produce 12 watt, the battery will be charged with about the same, at the expense of 24 watt from the two batteries powering the circuit.

There is nothing to be "reused". Your circuit doesn't reuse any energy at all, it only uses more energy than needed. Yes, you CAN reuse energy in some circumstances, like regenerative braking but your circuit has non of it.

You will get more light and heat if you put all those batteries in parallel, at least the two batteries powering the lamp and strip away your silly back-to-front battery.

There is nothing to be explained really. You lighting up a bulb and charing one battery with two batteries. The light and heat have nothing to do with the charging, it is not the "same energy" and nothing is reused. On the contrary, your losses are greater comparing with no charging of any battery.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10798
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #210 on: January 27, 2015, 01:04:11 pm »
Ok according to Kirchhoff's current law what is going on in the circuit I posted below. I am asking an honest question here.
If you were to put the light bulb across the negatives of 24 volt and a 12 volt battery system? What results can we expect to find?

-Dave Wing

Batteries 1+2 will drain, the lamp will light, battery 3 will charge.

Energy will be lost to the environment as heat and light (mainly heat I suspect - the batteries will warm up).

Maybe I'm a bit slow, but ... is something unexpected/miraculous supposed to happen?

 

Offline max_torque

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1137
  • Country: gb
    • bitdynamics
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #211 on: January 27, 2015, 01:51:40 pm »
As far as i can tell Dave Wings misunderstanding seems to be thinking that "current" is power.   He is saying that if 1 amp goes in, and 1 amp comes out, then no "energy" has been "lost".

Of course, this is incorrect, as previously mentioned.  So, Lets assume Dave W is a moron, and try and explain it to him in simpler terms.  For this, i am going to replace "current" with "weight" and "voltage" with "gravity" (height)


So Dave, concentrate, here comes the (not much) science!


Here is an escalator:



Normally used to move people up and down in buildings, they usually take electrical power and use that to move the steps fixed to a continuous conveyor.  Hopefully you can see / understand roughly how they mechanically function?


Now, lets not power the escalator, but use the motor as a generator, and simply attach a lightbulb to the wires of the motor.


Statically, nothing will happen, because the mass of the conveyor is balanced (with say 30 evenly weighted steps hanging on each side of the pulley that the motor is attached too).


But now, lets put a 50kg weight on a step on the top side.  Now the system is unbalanced, and the converyor will start to move, turn the generator and light the lamp.  Until of course, that weight gets to the bottom of the escalator and slides off. Att which point the steps will stop turning and the lamp will go out.


With me so far?



Now, instead of putting just one weight on the steps, lets keep putting them on.  Everytime a "new" step comes up and around, lets put a 50kg weight on it.  Now the system keeps turning, we keep adding weights, and they keep falling off the bottom one at a time.  The lamp is lit all the time, as the steps keep turning.  But we are not changing the weights in any way,just like your electrical circuit doesn't change the "Current" in any way, and yet power IS being extracted from the system.


In the case of our weight powered escalator, the power we can generate depends on the mass of the weights we add, and how far they can fall under the force of gravity.  Add more weights or add them higher up and more work is done.  In effect, the weights are the "Current" and the height they come down from the "Voltage difference".  In all cases, if you stop adding weights, say because you are tired, the system will stop and no power will be generated.  And in all cases, the weights (the current) are not changed by the process, just moved to a different (lower) location, and some other entity will need to add external "power" to keep the process running (in this case, you, carrying the weights back up to the top one at a time)


Hepefully, this mechanical analogy might help you understand that Power or Work Done, is the product of Current and Voltage (P = V x I), and that considering just current or just voltage is not sufficient to be able to establish the work done in circuit.
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2117
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #212 on: January 27, 2015, 02:03:38 pm »
I have documented evidence that free energy does exist.

12 years ago I moved into a new house, got all the utility connected and did not receive an electricity account until they decided to install a smart meter 2 years ago.We had free energy for 10 years, so there you go.

They could only bill us for the prior 9 months based on the forward 3 month average, so we read books by candle light or a couple of months until a bill turned up for sweet FA.

Muttley
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 10:04:54 pm by Muttley Snickers »
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31342
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #213 on: January 27, 2015, 02:14:18 pm »
12 years ago I moved into a new house, got all the utility's
connected and did not receive an electricity account until
they decided to install a smart meter 2 years ago.

I got free energy at the lab for the first year until they realised someone had moved in...
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2117
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #214 on: January 27, 2015, 02:25:27 pm »
I miss running the lathe, mill, CNC, welder and all my other toys in the way that I used to.

Bloody smart meters killed all the fun.

Muttley
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 10:03:31 pm by Muttley Snickers »
 

Offline MikeM100

  • Newbie
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #215 on: January 27, 2015, 04:13:49 pm »
Hi Guys,

Such was my interest on this topic that I registered and this is my first post !

So, why don't we organise a 'competition' to see how much 'light' someone can get out an AA battery ?

We would just need to specify a battery and a means of measuring the total light out ?

Any means of doing so but probably exclude 'nuclear' (e = mc2 options  !

Anyone up for it
 

Offline Kjelt

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 5825
  • Country: nl
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #216 on: January 27, 2015, 04:22:40 pm »
I have documented evidence that free energy does exist.
No everyone that is currently buying energy from that energy corporation is now paying something extra for that energy you used  ;) .
You could do this every month, just don't pay the bill on odd months but pay it together with the new bill on the even months. In your universe you will have free energy every odd month  :D
 
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2117
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #217 on: January 27, 2015, 04:26:48 pm »
Hi Guys,

Such was my interest on this topic that I registered and this is my first post !

So, why don't we organise a 'competition' to see how much 'light' someone can get out an AA battery ?

We would just need to specify a battery and a means of measuring the total light out ?

Any means of doing so but probably exclude 'nuclear' (e = mc2 options  !

Anyone up for it

This would need to be an even playing field and the first constraints that come to mind are how do we all simultaneously synchronise our measurement equipment, and how will every participant maintain an equal temperature globally.

I normally dont throw spanners, ever.

Muttley
« Last Edit: November 24, 2017, 10:03:05 pm by Muttley Snickers »
 

Offline Phaedrus

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 714
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #218 on: January 27, 2015, 04:41:05 pm »
Hi Guys,

Such was my interest on this topic that I registered and this is my first post !

So, why don't we organise a 'competition' to see how much 'light' someone can get out an AA battery ?

We would just need to specify a battery and a means of measuring the total light out ?

Any means of doing so but probably exclude 'nuclear' (e = mc2 options  !

Anyone up for it

You need to define the term "how much light". Are we talking maximum brightness? Average lumens over X amount of time? Longest battery life? And then decide how that will be measured. Dictate a common battery and LED. Probably all devices would need to be tested by one person with the equipment who can do an unbiased test.

I like the idea though. Could make a contest out of it. And the free energy chumps could join in and see if their quantum vacuum fairy dust can beat out some good-old-fashioned math and engineering.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 04:45:48 pm by Phaedrus »
"More quotes have been misattributed to Albert Einstein than to any other famous person."
- Albert Einstein
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2117
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #219 on: January 27, 2015, 04:41:42 pm »
I have documented evidence that free energy does exist.
No everyone that is currently buying energy from that energy corporation is now paying something extra for that energy you used  ;) . :D
 

Bullshit,    No, every individual customer is billed
based only on their usage and supply service charge.

The second part of your question with all due respect, does not make sense
is not understood by me at all.

Muttley
 

Offline Richard Crowley

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4310
  • Country: us
  • KE7GKP
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #220 on: January 27, 2015, 04:52:54 pm »
So, why don't we organise a 'competition' to see how much 'light' someone can get out an AA battery ?
We would just need to specify a battery and a means of measuring the total light out ?
There is probably no single brand/model of AA cell that is available everywhere.
And even if there were, there is no way of knowing whether the total capacity (WH) is the same in all places.
Or even how fresh the cells are when/where you buy them.

Might be easier to simply specify a given power (voltage, current) and take the battery chemistry/freshness out of the equation.

And there is the matter of specifying many terms and conditions: monochromatic vs. "white"
And, given how LEDs produce "white", what is the definition of "white" anyway?

And then, as you mention, there is the matter of calibrating light measurement.
Do you want to go into the business of selling calibrated sensors?
And then how do you select a sensor that would be impartial to all wavelengths?

Not impossible, but there are several interesting challenges to resolve.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4310
  • Country: us
  • KE7GKP
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #221 on: January 27, 2015, 05:00:37 pm »
every individual customer is billed based only on their usage and supply service charge.
Built into their cost of doing business is "stock shrinkage" which includes unexplained loads (a single private home is probably "down in the  noise"), but even greater (and more constant) is simply losses through the transmission system between the source and all the loads.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10798
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #222 on: January 27, 2015, 05:07:19 pm »
I like the idea though. Could make a contest out of it. And the free energy chumps could join in and see if their quantum vacuum fairy dust can beat out some good-old-fashioned math and engineering.

We already know the answer to that question.

We also know the "chumps" won't change their magical thinking one iota, no matter what the result is. They know that real-life experiments are irrelevant because the big breakthrough in magic energy is "just around the corner". All it needs is a bit more fiddling around with magnets to achieve it...

PS: Unfortunately LED efficiency has passed sodium-vapor lamps. Lighting a sodium-vapor lamp with an AA battery would be an interesting challenge.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10798
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #223 on: January 27, 2015, 05:21:12 pm »
Might be easier to simply specify a given power (voltage, current) and take the battery chemistry/freshness out of the equation.

Yep. There's no way a real-life battery could be used, you'd have to specify a voltage, eg. 1.2V and let people go with that.

According to Wikipedia the theoretical limit for white LEDs is about 260-300 lm/W:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luminous_efficacy#Examples_2

Cree claim to already be there:

http://www.cree.com/News-and-Events/Cree-News/Press-Releases/2014/March/300LPW-LED-barrier


So... the competition would therefore be who can build the most efficient voltage booster to light up a Cree LED using a 1.2V input. I don't think the engineering for that will surprise many people.


 

Offline Phaedrus

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 714
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #708 - Free Energy BULLSHIT!
« Reply #224 on: January 27, 2015, 05:25:25 pm »
You couldn't specify *just* a voltage, or you could hook up a 30A supply and light up a whole bank of LEDs.

I honestly think the best way would be to specify a specific LED and a specific battery, and have the contestants send their circuits in to the contest runner for the testing. They can just pick whatever batteries are available for them, it shouldn't matter as long as they're reasonable quality and all the same.

I think we could also make it more interesting by putting additional restrictions, for instance maximum of 8 components, etc. Then measure both light intensity and battery life.
"More quotes have been misattributed to Albert Einstein than to any other famous person."
- Albert Einstein
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf