Author Topic: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card  (Read 42110 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« on: March 01, 2015, 04:50:28 am »
Sony's have released a new Audiophile / Audiophool "Low Noise" SDXC memery card. It's only 5 times the price of a regular card!
The SR-64HXA will really make your music sound superlative!
And even better again on Sony's new $1100 ZX2 Audiophile grade Walkman!
http://www.sony.jp/sd/products/SR-HXA/

 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2015, 05:13:06 am »
Louder and more definitive Oh's perhaps ?   :palm: :bullshit:


Knickers
 

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2015, 05:25:32 am »
That's got to be the first time i heard Dave drop the f-bomb.  :scared:
I have a blog at http://brimmingideas.blogspot.com/ . Now less empty than ever before !
 

Offline jpenn

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2015, 05:32:16 am »
Instead of ones and zeros they must be using ONES and ZEROS. Don’t forget its HIGH fidelity! Or maybe it’s the high impact plastic it’s wrapped in.
 

Online Refrigerator

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2015, 05:39:25 am »
Instead of ones and zeros they must be using ONES and ZEROS. Don’t forget its HIGH fidelity! Or maybe it’s the high impact plastic it’s wrapped in.
Or maybe instead of ones and zeros they have zeros and ones ?
I have a blog at http://brimmingideas.blogspot.com/ . Now less empty than ever before !
 

Offline george graves

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2015, 05:43:49 am »
Seemed more like an eevBLAB.  Was surprised at how short it was!

Offline mitchy93

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2015, 05:50:01 am »
shall i buy a $1K, diamond HDMI cable and $10K ethernet cable to go with that aswell?
 
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Offline pickle9000

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2015, 05:52:19 am »
Is Sony opening itself up to a lawsuit?
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2015, 05:55:42 am »
I wonder, how much will the lower noise benefit the device when most SD card slots are at least partially shielded


and that the internet components do not really many active components beyond a random die taking up the space

Some internal photos of micro SD cards.


Also what frequencies are these devices operating at, and will any of the noise made by the SD card, make it through the low-pass filter of the amplifier?
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 06:03:07 am by Razor512 »
 

Offline nitro2k01

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2015, 06:10:37 am »
As pointed out in previous threads, what the card is likely trying to solve is conducted noise that causes ripple in the supply rails, and interferes with the analog parts of the player. Shielding does not help against that. Bigger decoupling caps or better power regulation does. If you've ever used a player where you hear a slight buzz or sizzling noise burst when changing a track or browsing through files etc, that's it. Some laptops can pick up similar noises through the power rail, for example coming from hard drive activity or moving a window while the computer is idle because CPU leaves and enter sleep mode periodically.

Granted, this is an overpriced, overmarketed piece of crap that solves a problem that shouldn't exist, but simply mocking it as complete snake oil doesn't help further the world's collective knowledge.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 07:08:23 am by nitro2k01 »
Whoa! How the hell did Dave know that Bob is my uncle? Amazing!
 

Offline jpenn

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2015, 06:11:33 am »
Is somebody's calendar off? It's not April fools day yet. Ya got 1 month t go.
 

Offline nowlan

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2015, 06:11:44 am »
Certainly seems short enough to be a blab.
Are there* any consumer watch dogs who might call them out on their bullshit?
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2015, 06:15:34 am »
The issue is, how will the noise from the SD card compare to all of the various switching regulators and other noise producing components on the PCB of your average smartphone?
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2015, 06:39:51 am »
A solution caused by the cheapness of the designer. If your card is causing audio noise the player needs to be taken and returned to the designer with a generous coating of pure Capsaicin oil applied. Can be taken either end, though oral application along with a generous drink to wash it down is preferred. Liquid of choice is denotanium in methanol.
 

Offline 0b01010011

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2015, 07:24:21 am »
Akio Morita must be spinning in his grave.

From Trinitron to Betamax to Walkman to bullshit.
 

Offline edy

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2015, 07:57:22 am »
Correct me if I'm wrong....

But I thought the whole point of digital encoding is that signals get rounded to either 0 or 1 (low or a high voltage) so that any "noise" produced in transmission on top of the actual signal never actually impacts the accurate reproduction/interpretation of what the bits should be?

As a quick example....if we are using a system where 0 V is "0" and 5 V is supposed to be a "1", the noise can ride on top to a huge degree because even then, a 0-2.5V signal will automatically be interpreted as a "0" bit, and signals in the range of 2.5-5.0V would be considered a high or "1" bit (in reality it wouldn't be that huge amount of noise anyways)?

And as far as hearing goes, wouldn't it be the DAC that needs to be low noise? Accurately converting the digital stream into actual analog voltages to drive speakers and not having inaccuracies introduced (aka "noise")? Is Sony trying to say that their "better low noise" SD CARD produces a cleaner signal to the DAC input (which wouldn't matter a heap of sh#t) or that it introduces less noise to the circuitry that would produce noise on the DAC output?

Maybe I'm overthinking this and it is a complete pile of sh#t as Dave says.

Oh... and their digital Walkman that costs $1200.... It supports lossless codecs like FLAC and others. How does it sound any better than any other device that can play lossless? The only way I see is that they have built a superior DAC, or they are supporting higher-bit encoded files per sample (like 24-bit) to increase the resolution over the 16-bit (and whether you could possibly even resolve this with your ear is another matter altogether).... Same argument goes for TV's these days that are trying to increase the color-depth as well. More Marketing Bullsh#t.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 08:05:48 am by edy »
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Offline NRoach44

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2015, 08:09:32 am »
https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/2wghhg/sony_releases_160_64_gb_sd_cards_marketed_for/coqmogx

Quote
EDIT: Since i keep getting replies from people who missed this:

In my second point, I am referring to the possibility of interference from an SD card affecting the signal reproduction of an ANALOG TO DIGITAL RECORDING DEVICE.
I am not referring to the SD card mangling or otherwise effecting a digital signal due to interference..

Two points:

First, I'm not sure this is being targeted at end users.

Second, electrical interference from capacitors, motors, and other sources can and will get picked up by audio interfaces.

Computer equipment is VERY prone to generating that interference.

It's a severe enough issue that most professional audio recording uses external usb/firewire audio interfaces when recording directly to a computer. It's just easier to avoid the problems that it is to try and shield things like the computer's CPU.

Stand alone audio recording interfaces are used for on-site recording when you can't be in a studio. Most of them will record to a laptop via USB/firewire, but a large number of the newest ones can record directly to SD.

$160 for an internally shielded SD card is not that much compared to the results of having a whine from a failing card show up in a live recording.

EDIT: If it's got traces/wires and current, it has a magnetic field.
Shielding helps, but portable audio gear rarely includes a faraday cage between the SD card and the inputs.
 

Offline nitro2k01

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2015, 08:18:12 am »
But I thought the whole point of digital encoding is that signals get rounded to either 0 or 1 (low or a high voltage) so that any "noise" produced in transmission on top of the actual signal never actually impacts the accurate reproduction/interpretation of what the bits should be?
See my post on page 1. The claim is most likely that it the card has less interference to the analog circuitry, not that it reproduces the digital data better.
The issue is, how will the noise from the SD card compare to all of the various switching regulators and other noise producing components on the PCB of your average smartphone?
Switching regulators, CPU clocks etc mostly operate at higher frequencies which are 1) well above the audible frequency range 2) easy to filter out. If the SD card draws a large current spike 1000 time over the course of a second, the supply voltage at some other place will move up and down 1000 times per second, and you may get interference at 1000 Hz. This should really only be a problem for writes, which consume far more power than reads, but badly written software may write to the SD card unnecessarily. And still, an SD card is not the only possible source of such interference, and if it happens it's a sign of bad design of the player. The above suggestion involving capsaicin might indeed be appropriate.
Whoa! How the hell did Dave know that Bob is my uncle? Amazing!
 

Offline Simon

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2015, 08:44:38 am »
Certainly seems short enough to be a blab.
Are there* any consumer watch dogs who might call them out on their bullshit?

Probably not because they need someone who is "qualified" to be able to rule on it.
 

Offline malloc

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2015, 08:44:59 am »
Well ... when Dave started with sony's technical innovations - the first thing that came to my mind was their usage of XCP.

But his explanations on the whiteboard really made my day so far.  :-DD

Thanks Dave - you got me to start this day with a huge smile.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2015, 08:45:55 am »
Is Sony opening itself up to a lawsuit?

I'd hope so, if you can get a judge to understand the technicalities.
 

Offline JoeN

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2015, 08:53:08 am »
Is it April 1 already again?

This is hard to believe.  This should be far beneath the dignity of Sony.  This kills the credibility of their entire product line for me doing something like this.  I'm angry.

As pointed out in previous threads, what the card is likely trying to solve is conducted noise that causes ripple in the supply rails.

Are you shitting me?  I don't buy that for a second.  But assuming it's a problem, where do you solve it - in every SD card with caps that need to fit into an ultra-small device and need to be on EVERY SD card made, or on the SD card slot within the actual player, requiring only one set of caps?  If it's a problem, the designer of the player has already solved this.  I find it hard to believe its a problem, though.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 08:57:37 am by JoeN »
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2015, 09:44:48 am »
Sony's zero's are better than any one else's,They are more zero, rounder with less distortion. The 1's are straighter with less bend and wobble. That's Patently obvious and no doubt their lawyers will take you to the cleaners if you try to infringe.  :-DD
 
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Offline george graves

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2015, 10:09:22 am »
The only exception I can think of is codecs that have error correction built into them on the decode end.  Like Sony's DV (and the pro version DVCAM) tapes.  Yes, it's all 1's and 0's....but with a tape format you'll get errors(physical imperfections in the tape).  So to over come that, it would look at past B-frames, and interpolate.  And other codecs do this as well, if they can't re-read the data.  I wonder how something as simple as a MP3 player would deal with a error?  I'm sure that it's a bit stream, but with some kind of markers.  So, if it got a error in the data, would it try to correct it?  Or just play the garbled bits as audio?

Dave mentioned, but downplayed Sony's domination in the pro video production world.  It didn't just stop with Betamax....that later became Betacam SP.  99% of TV you watched in the 90's was most likely coming from or shot on BetacamSP.  Sony dominated the market.  The most popular editor/recorder was the UVW-1800.  Sticker price as about $25k back in the day.  Now you can get one for about $100.  Would love to see a tear down of one.

Sony isn't dead, but they did shoot themselves in the foot for consumer products as a brand - to people in the know.  For my mom, it's still a trusted brand. 

Now-a-days....They make most of the cameras for smart phones..iphone, samsung. And do a good job at it.

They also sell life insurance....oddly enough.  Apparently - besides movies, they make a ton of money from it.  http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/28/business/global/sonys-bread-and-butter-its-not-electronics.html

Would have liked to seen that mentioned.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2015, 10:35:36 am by george graves »
 

Offline FHR

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Re: EEVblog #719 - Sony Low Noise Audiophile SDXC Memory Card
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2015, 10:23:05 am »
Hey Dave, that SD card is just the tip of the iceberg. Try this: http://www.audioquest.com/ethernet/diamond
Ethernet cable; 5500$ for 8 meters.
Want a power cable for 7000$? This is for you. http://www.audioquest.com/power-cables/wel-signature
 


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