Author Topic: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting  (Read 32208 times)

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Offline VK3DRB

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2015, 12:33:44 pm »
It would have been worthwhile to have opened the power supply to see what was in it. The CE marking means nothing. The power supply in the video is not C-Tick compliant. And you cannot trust that the wiring is UL approved self extinguishing type in case of fire. There does not seem to be any link to this DYOU brand on the web. Maybe DYOU means Do You Own Underwriting ^-^.

An electrician I know who installs LED lights told me there are a lot of drivers around which produce excessive RF EMI. No compliance, no nothing. He only uses those from a reputable wholesaler in Melbourne who imports quality approved drivers which are also RF quiet. More expensive than eBay crap, but money well spent.

A mate of mine had a Hoo Flung Dung brand bathroom fan which caught fire, causing $20,000 worth of damage. It was a sobering experience for him. Even though all this crap is made in China, at least a genuine well known brand there is some level of quality and safety.
 

Offline Dr. Frank

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2015, 12:33:51 pm »
Your rant about non standard lengths of these T4 tubes is not correct!
The numeral in T4 , T5, T8,... always denotes the tubes diameter in unity of 1/8 inch, and the length varies for ALL of these different types  - also in a standardized manner - over the wattage.

Then please explain:
- why no one sells T4 tubes to match the length I had - anywhere online that I could find, even overseas.
- Hardly any local lighting or hardware stores carry practically any T4 tubes spare, and the rare one that did had every size but mine (close though).
- No one makes T4 LED replacement tubes, yet they do for the other sizes that do have standardised lengths.
- Why many sites (inc wikipedia) confirm that there is no standard, and that it basically what I found when I searched.

Perhaps in Germany, but elsewhere there doesn't seem to be any standard.

Sorry for that , Dave!

In EU, there obviously exists a standard / norm , i.e DIN EN 60081.

I assume, that on other continents, there also exist corresponding standards, even in Australia.  :-//

The Chinese manufacturers may well stick to these definitions also.

I append a diagram about my assumption, and it turns out to be correct, there's a linear dependency between length and wattage for the T4 tube.

Only complication visible in this diagram, is the different efficiency of the gas filling, as there exist also e.g. HE and HO types, High Efficiency and High Output types, that alters the current density for the same diameter, obviously.

So you can not only select by diameter / wattage.

But I assume, that the absolute length of the tube is given on the package.. so when dealing with the replacement of an FL, you definitely have to measure the length of your old tube.
Maybe the bathroom lamp manufacturer used a no name lamp manufacturer, which did not obey any standards..

Please specify, which exact length your old tube has.. maybe there's a replacement from German company OSRAM, which would fit, even in LED replacement.

Again, thanks for illuminating that problem!

Frank
« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 01:02:49 pm by Dr. Frank »
 

Offline ivan747

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2015, 12:37:43 pm »
http://www.boondaburra.com/

Check out the antartic theme bathroom that seems to annoy Dave  ;D
I'd be more annoyed at that hideous 80's style it used to have when you got the house. God...  :palm: Wooden toilet seats :palm:
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2015, 12:42:08 pm »
Personally, I'm still wondering why Dave standardizes on 25/50 FPS and not 30/60
My main camera is 25/50fps
It seems it's not unusual for cameras to be locked to 25/50 or 30/60.

Yep. I have a big beef with that.

I live in Europe which is a "50Hz PAL" zone, but ... if I want to make youtube videos I really ought to have a 60Hz camera.

Should be no problem these days, right? But there's no way to do it. There's no way to buy a "60Hz" camera over here. The only way I could get one would be to buy it on eBay or something and then I'd have to pay more for it, worry about warranties, etc.

Basically I'm doomed to produce 50Hz videos for a 60Hz medium unless I take that extra risk.

I'm betting the internals of the 60/60Hz cameras are identical, it's just a firmware thing. Why this stupid limitation?
 

Offline Howardlong

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2015, 01:15:59 pm »
Personally, I'm still wondering why Dave standardizes on 25/50 FPS and not 30/60
My main camera is 25/50fps
It seems it's not unusual for cameras to be locked to 25/50 or 30/60.

Yep. I have a big beef with that.

I live in Europe which is a "50Hz PAL" zone, but ... if I want to make youtube videos I really ought to have a 60Hz camera.

Should be no problem these days, right? But there's no way to do it. There's no way to buy a "60Hz" camera over here. The only way I could get one would be to buy it on eBay or something and then I'd have to pay more for it, worry about warranties, etc.

Basically I'm doomed to produce 50Hz videos for a 60Hz medium unless I take that extra risk.

I'm betting the internals of the 60/60Hz cameras are identical, it's just a firmware thing. Why this stupid limitation?

I am not sure it's completely down to technology, although the nuances of supporting both PAL and NTSC is non trivial, although I would think that nowadays supporting either is rather quaint. I am wondering if it is also to do with legacy import taxation in some legislatures?

During the PAL/SECAM/NTSC battle fifty or sixty years ago, many countries chose their own standards often based on protectionism for their home industries, and imports were taxed accordingly. There are also several PAL based standards as a result.

In the EU for example, there are different duty rates for camcorders compared to cameras, a camcorder defined for tax purposes arbitrarily as being able to record a single segment of over 30 minutes or so. This is still a limitation in some cameras. There is also a different tax on camcorders to video recorders and that's why camcorders tend not to have external video in.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2015, 01:52:50 pm »
Many modern cameras the frame rate is adjustable in the service menu to suit a region. That way during manufacture they simply do the programming in bulk per region. It might be a customer accessible menu or a service menu that is in the service manual. Google the model and service manual and have a look to see if you are lucky.
 

Offline classical

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2015, 02:03:30 pm »
He only uses those from a reputable wholesaler in Melbourne who imports quality approved drivers which are also RF quiet. More expensive than eBay crap, but money well spent.
Not necessaraly so much more expensive. E.g. the Meanwell LPH-18-12 is under 8EUR has real EC and you get a data sheet which promises safety standards as TUV EN60950-1,TUV EN61347-1,EN61347-2-13, IP67 approved; design referred to UL1310 Class2, CAN/CSA No.223-M91;
EMC immunity compliant to EN61000-4-2,3,4,5,6,8,11, EN55024, light industry level, criteria A; EMC emission compliance to EN55022 (CISPR22),Class BEN61000-3-2 ClassA, EN61000-3-3
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2015, 02:31:00 pm »
who is the manufacturer of your variable frequency power supply?

There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline nitro2k01

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2015, 02:58:19 pm »
who is the manufacturer of your variable frequency power supply?
Absopulse VFC500. Teardown here:

Whoa! How the hell did Dave know that Bob is my uncle? Amazing!
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #34 on: March 29, 2015, 03:29:00 pm »
Many modern cameras the frame rate is adjustable in the service menu to suit a region. That way during manufacture they simply do the programming in bulk per region. It might be a customer accessible menu or a service menu that is in the service manual. Google the model and service manual and have a look to see if you are lucky.

Nope. I've googled everything imaginable and can't find anything.

FWIW it's a Canon Legria HF G25.

 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #35 on: March 29, 2015, 04:11:55 pm »
who is the manufacturer of your variable frequency power supply?
Absopulse VFC500. Teardown here:


Thanks for the info, I must have missed that video
That seems to be a very nice piece of equipment
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #36 on: March 29, 2015, 04:19:21 pm »
Then your SOL, unless you can find the model that uses the same electronics but has the 60FPS firmware enabled for US sale. Pity the Canon hack kit does not work on video cameras.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #37 on: March 29, 2015, 04:20:51 pm »
Then your SOL, unless you can find the model that uses the same electronics but has the 60FPS firmware enabled for US sale. Pity the Canon hack kit does not work on video cameras.

I wonder if there's a jumper on the PCB...
 

Offline elgonzo

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #38 on: March 29, 2015, 05:30:56 pm »

Sorry for that , Dave!

In EU, there obviously exists a standard / norm , i.e DIN EN 60081.

I assume, that on other continents, there also exist corresponding standards, even in Australia.  :-//

Not sure whether DIN EN 60081 covers T4 tubes, but even if it does the reality is that there are a lot of T4 tubes used/manufactured with proprietary lengths. Even with such a DIN standard, German online shops selling T4 tubes very often warn explicitly about proprietary T4 tube lengths. Example quote from lampenwelt.de (in German language): "Hinweis: Bei diesen T4 Leuchtmitteln gibt es häufig Sonderleuchtmittel mit gleicher Leistung aber unterschiedlichen Abmessungen."...

With regard to length-wattage relationship you might very well be correct, but it does not always help. An example:
T4 18W, 470mm
T4 18W, 485mm
Well, i guess you see the problem... Unless manufacturers provide accurate wattage numbers like 18.123W, you will have to deal with tubes that are of different, albeit similar length and same power ratings...

« Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 05:38:54 pm by elgonzo »
 

Offline Slothie

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2015, 09:49:46 pm »
Any update on SWMBO's verdict? I think the look is cool (no pun intended) but I guess it depends on if its bright enough. I usually find flouro's too bright in bathrooms so maybe you'll be OK.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #40 on: March 29, 2015, 10:05:53 pm »
who is the manufacturer of your variable frequency power supply?

Absopulse
http://www.absopulse.com/
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2015, 10:06:16 pm »
 

Offline HighVoltage

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2015, 10:38:10 pm »
who is the manufacturer of your variable frequency power supply?

Absopulse
http://www.absopulse.com/

Thank you.
I watched your video on this great instrument. I had not seen this before. Thanks for such a great introduction to instruments.
There are 3 kinds of people in this world, those who can count and those who can not.
 

Offline richfiles

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2015, 11:19:54 pm »
I just had this idea... Posted to the YouTube video, but felt a picture would say it a thousand times better than words...

Basically, a thought on how one might fit two lengths of LED strips with the addition of two standoffs and a piece of plexi.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #44 on: March 30, 2015, 12:41:08 am »
I just had this idea... Posted to the YouTube video, but felt a picture would say it a thousand times better than words...
Basically, a thought on how one might fit two lengths of LED strips with the addition of two standoffs and a piece of plexi.

It's much easier than that, just put them both on an angle, in a triangle spape, one angled down, one angled up.
 

Offline richfiles

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #45 on: March 30, 2015, 04:34:42 am »
It's much easier than that, just put them both on an angle, in a triangle shape, one angled down, one angled up.

That is true, if you have a triangular surface to mount them to. Just saying that a pair of standoffs and a strip of plexi is rather easy to come by though, with minimal effort. If you've got something triangular to use... Go for it (if you need more light that is).
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #46 on: March 30, 2015, 06:52:35 am »
I wonder, can a second strip be attached to the top piece of glass (the panel that faces the ceiling)?
 
Due the height, it will not be noticed, and it will allow you to double the light.
 

Offline Corporate666

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #47 on: March 30, 2015, 02:05:48 pm »

That's a gorgeous brown wire color on the output. I really like the reddish tone in that brown color. And that really really dark blue color is something else...  :-DD

LOL!  I noticed the same thing (I haven't gotten further in this thread so maybe it was addressed).

I was somewhat disappointed that a) Dave didn't mention this and b) He chose a shit Chinese PSU for this application.  I realize he probably bought it just to get it working and not to do a teardown, and that a teardown of a potted item is likely to be destructive, but I really wonder what is inside that driver?

Perhaps I am paranoid but I don't like using no-name non-certified parts in line voltage applications in a home for obvious reasons.
It's not always the most popular person who gets the job done.
 

Offline Evil Lurker

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #48 on: March 30, 2015, 02:48:47 pm »
For what it is worth, if you need a quick pin extender you can always simply get a molex connector off a junk computer PSU, pop out the pins, chop off the crimped part, slip them over the ends of the tube pins, and add whatever length of solid copper wire you need to make them fit.

Also you can so the same thing, except instead of using large copper wire you can solder a computer IDC/Dupont header pin on the end of it and have a convenient breadboard "hands free" DMM probe holder
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: EEVblog #728 - T4 LED Lighting
« Reply #49 on: March 30, 2015, 04:15:30 pm »
I did not see any ground leads on the supply or inside the lamp fitting, this would be a requirement if your bathroom circuits are protected with an ELCB.
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

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