Author Topic: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?  (Read 34584 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16276
  • Country: za
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2015, 11:11:08 am »
Most common example is a CMOS analogue switch, which uses this property to act as a switch. If you use a CD4007 you can connect the one device as an amplifier, and if you connect it with the drain and source reversed it acts exactly the same with identical characteristics, as the substrate connection is a separate connection to a supply rail pin.
 

Offline Halfdead

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 48
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2015, 11:12:14 am »
Yes, deliberately left out. It was already getting way longer than I wanted.

Hey, I'd watch the extended remix where you add the humble vacuum triode at the beginning and insert the JFET in between BJT and MOSFET. :)

Don't forget IGBTs!
 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16276
  • Country: za
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2015, 11:19:18 am »
IGBT is dead easy, you take a very big PNP transistor ( acts pretty much like a NPN one, just substitute holes for electrons in conduction) and use a power MOSFET between base and collector, with the collector being common. Mosfet is a converter from gate voltage to current, and the PNP device is a non saturated switch, so turn on and turn off can be pretty fast. Drawback is the non saturated switching, you always will have 2V across the device when on. Advatage is high current capability and high voltage ability, though not both at the same time, power dissipation ability in linear mode is very poor, and you really want to switch only with it.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 11:26:27 am by SeanB »
 

Offline LightlyDoped

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 29
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2015, 05:42:13 pm »
In the mid-60's when I was studying electrical engineering at university, we started with the Ebers-Moll model, which relates emitter current to Vbe and to think of a BJT as a voltage controlled device.

I'm a retired lawyer and I specialized in patent litigation. I love the intersection of science and law. Most of my cases involved semiconductor design and fabrication. (You can tell by my forum username.) I met John Moll. He came to court to serve as an expert witness. He actually showed up wearing farmer jeans and a flannel shirt. He was the nicest, most unassuming guy. He passed away in 2011.

Explaining semiconductor device physics to a jury and judge with no EE background was the biggest challenge. I would try to use analogies to things in everyday life. One case involved the ultimate shape of a P-N junction in a power MOSFET after implant and diffusion of dopants through a mask into the epi region (specifically, the shape of the base region in a planar power MOSFET when viewed from above the substrate). The longer the time and higher the temperature of diffusion, the more rounded the junction. I used an analogy of spraying ink on a stencil and seeing that the outline of the resulting image wasn't exactly like the stencil opening, but was more rounded at the corners.

I really enjoy Dave's tutorials. I could have used him as an expert. He would have gotten a free trip to the states.
 

Offline photon

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 234
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2015, 07:07:03 pm »
Taking a seemingly difficult subject and explaining it as simply as possible is the start of understanding it. Great idea this Fundamental Friday.
 

Offline jwm_

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 319
  • Country: us
    • Not A Number
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2015, 08:13:04 pm »
Most common example is a CMOS analogue switch, which uses this property to act as a switch. If you use a CD4007 you can connect the one device as an amplifier, and if you connect it with the drain and source reversed it acts exactly the same with identical characteristics, as the substrate connection is a separate connection to a supply rail pin.

Really interesting, I have used 4000 series switches before but I guess I never thought about it much and assumed they had a way to integrate JFETs. symmetric CMOS makes a lot more sense from a process standpoint.

Offline Stephan_T

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 35
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2015, 03:51:28 am »
I'm a retired lawyer and [...]

Great!
I would like to sue semiconductors for the shameless infringement of Ohms law.  :scared:
Can you help me with that?
 

Offline free_electron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8517
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2015, 03:56:59 am »
On a side note, I don't know why anyone would give a thumbs down... and more than one at that.

I have serial haters. Thumbs down come in the first few minutes after upload before they even have time to watch it. Happens on every video.
apply kirchoff and convert them to parallel haters ...
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline NiHaoMike

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9008
  • Country: us
  • "Don't turn it on - Take it apart!"
    • Facebook Page
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2015, 05:08:27 am »
IGBT is dead easy, you take a very big PNP transistor ( acts pretty much like a NPN one, just substitute holes for electrons in conduction) and use a power MOSFET between base and collector, with the collector being common. Mosfet is a converter from gate voltage to current, and the PNP device is a non saturated switch, so turn on and turn off can be pretty fast. Drawback is the non saturated switching, you always will have 2V across the device when on. Advatage is high current capability and high voltage ability, though not both at the same time, power dissipation ability in linear mode is very poor, and you really want to switch only with it.
What about the upcoming high voltage HEMTs? From what I read, they can be thought of as very fast and very low loss MOSFETs, but exactly what makes them work so well?
Cryptocurrency has taught me to love math and at the same time be baffled by it.

Cryptocurrency lesson 0: Altcoins and Bitcoin are not the same thing.
 

Offline LightlyDoped

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 29
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2015, 05:35:40 am »
I'm a retired lawyer and [...]

Great!
I would like to sue semiconductors for the shameless infringement of Ohms law.  :scared:
Can you help me with that?

You need to re-read that third word: RETIRED!! No more arguing for me. But I might reconsider if your name was Georg Ohm.  :box:
 

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16276
  • Country: za
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2015, 06:38:47 am »
IGBT is dead easy, you take a very big PNP transistor ( acts pretty much like a NPN one, just substitute holes for electrons in conduction) and use a power MOSFET between base and collector, with the collector being common. Mosfet is a converter from gate voltage to current, and the PNP device is a non saturated switch, so turn on and turn off can be pretty fast. Drawback is the non saturated switching, you always will have 2V across the device when on. Advatage is high current capability and high voltage ability, though not both at the same time, power dissipation ability in linear mode is very poor, and you really want to switch only with it.
What about the upcoming high voltage HEMTs? From what I read, they can be thought of as very fast and very low loss MOSFETs, but exactly what makes them work so well?

An exercise for the student..........



Not familiar with them, must do some research some time on them and see.
 

Offline orolo

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 352
  • Country: es
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2015, 11:50:21 am »
Thank you very much for the lesson. I'm a mathematician, not a physicist, and I'm starting with semiconductor physics for fun (going through this magnificent online reference here).

Your explanation has made clear for me the workings of a BJT (I didn't reach that part in the course yet), though there seem to be some holes  :) . If I understood well, the key to amplification is as follows. The BE current modulates the width of the BE junction: the greater the current, the narrower the depletion region. The narrower that region, the more electrons diffuse through it. Now, due to the thinness of the base, many of these electrons will also cross the BC depletion region and be captured by the strong field in the weakly n-doped layer, therefore being sent to the collector. Really interesting.

I understand why there may be flame wars about current or voltage driving the transistor. It is the base current which determines the BE depletion width, but that width is a function of the BE voltage.  So the casual relationship is a bit fuzzy.

Again, thank you very much for the enlightening lesson.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21658
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #37 on: May 31, 2015, 04:45:03 pm »
What about the upcoming high voltage HEMTs? From what I read, they can be thought of as very fast and very low loss MOSFETs, but exactly what makes them work so well?

HEMTs and HBTs work by manipulating the band gap (the energy levels, and populations, of conduction electrons and holes) of a semiconductor by varying the composition of the semiconductor, into materials which are compatible (chemically and in crystal structure), but have different band gaps.

The basic idea is something like: the average level of the band gaps must meet (for continuity reasons: their electrons all have to be at the same thermal energy, defined by the Fermi level).  The top (conduction band) and bottom (valence band) of the band gap must vary, because the material's band gap is varying with position.  This can lead to some interesting consequences.  By stacking layers appropriately, the conduction band can be made to dip down below the Fermi level.  This causes the region to become metallic, i.e., permanently occupied by a 'gas' of free conduction electrons.

The capper is: by varying the electric field imposed on that region (by placing an insulator or depletion region right on top of the 'gas' layer), the band potentials can be "bent" up or down, enhancing or completely eliminating the 'gas' layer.  The result: low resistivity (when on), high transconductance (it doesn't take much voltage to affect a large change in current), and low capacitance (it doesn't take much area to achieve a required conductance).  This is a HEMT.  The "High electron mobility" refers to the electron gas (which, because it is confined to a layer between different semiconductor compositions, acts planar, i.e., the electrons are excluded from occupying the volume above or below the plane, and therefore is called a 2-dimensional electron gas (2DEG)), which has significantly higher mobility than the ordinary diffusion mobility in the material.  Which goes directly proportionally with Rds(on), for a given size of device.

The HBT (heterojunction BJT) similarly plays a band-structure trick.  In short, rather than merely letting charge carriers wander randomly through the base region, eventually finding their way into the collector: the base is formed with a gradient of semiconductor materials, which creates a built-in potential (independent of, and additional to, the E/C depletion regions), which practically vacuums them up.  Result: much higher hFE and current density.  Typical materials are SiGe:C (i.e., silicon substrate, germanium gradient, carbon doping).  One practical consequence is very high Early effect voltage (practically infinite), which makes these high-performance transistors excellent for instrumentation amplifiers (high compliance current sources, bootstrap followers, etc.) as well as RF amplifiers.

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline rolycat

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1101
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #38 on: May 31, 2015, 05:30:01 pm »
Bipolar junctions, unijunctions, junction gate FETs, MOSFET junctions, heterojunctions...

Roll on the "perfect transistor" which doesn't have any junctions.
 

Offline free_electron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 8517
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #39 on: May 31, 2015, 06:39:46 pm »
I'm a retired lawyer and [...]

Great!
I would like to sue semiconductors for the shameless infringement of Ohms law.  :scared:
Can you help me with that?
go after the esaki diode ! ( called tunnel diode) that thing blatantly showes the laws of physics up nature's nose ... it does have negative resistance...
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 

Offline m100

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 144
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #40 on: May 31, 2015, 08:39:49 pm »

Consider a bubble rising from the bottom of a glass of fizzy drink.

I might, but they don't always rise

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.5233v1.pdf

 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7799
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #41 on: May 31, 2015, 08:51:29 pm »
go after the esaki diode ! ( called tunnel diode) that thing blatantly showes the laws of physics up nature's nose ... it does have negative differential resistance...

FTFY ;)
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 

Offline rfeecs

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 807
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2015, 12:21:49 am »
What about the upcoming high voltage HEMTs? From what I read, they can be thought of as very fast and very low loss MOSFETs, but exactly what makes them work so well?

I assume you are referring to GaN (Gallium Nitride) HEMTs.  They are in production now, mostly for RF applications, but also for power management devices.  CREE is a big GaN manufacturer.  GaN HEMTs have high electron mobility which means lower resistance for the same size, so relatively smaller capacitance which means higher frequency operation.  GaN can have a high breakdown voltage and has excellent thermal conductivity.

By the way, HEMTs are nothing new.  It was 30 years ago in 1985 that Gould Electronics announced the first production HEMT (I worked there at the time).

These so called hetero-junction devices are typically made with exotic material structures from Gallium-Arsenide or Gallium-Nitride among others.
 

Offline number33

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2015, 01:31:18 pm »
I thought that Dave’s explanation was fine up to the moment where he skipped over the important bit ie. how the gain is actually generated.  So here’s the explanation I was given as an apprentoid back in the sixties.

Starting from the basis that we have an NPN sandwich of doped silicon with a depletion layer at each junction this explanation assumes what we all really know ie that electrons behave like tiny negatively charged billiard balls.  If you think that electrons behave like waves or probability fields then you might as well stop reading now.

Applying a positive voltage to the collector reverse biases its PN junction and widens its depletion layer.  Hence the base-collector junction drops all the applied voltage and consequently has a high voltage field across it.  The base-emitter junction doesn’t see the collector voltage at all.

Applying a positive voltage to the base forward biases the base-emitter junction, reduces the width of its depletion region and causes a current to flow ie electrons flow from the emitter into the base region.  The idea that it starts to conduct at 0.6V or any other voltage is a purely practical approximation.  Just like a diode, current flows at all forward voltages right down to very small values but as the current is exponentially related to the voltage it only become significant at a few tenths of a volt.

This base-emitter current then tries to flow through the base region to the base terminal.  It doesn’t matter whether you consider it to be holes flowing towards the emitter or  electrons flowing towards the base, the actual charge carriers are electrons moving between silicon atoms. 

Here’s the important bit,  the base region is extremely thin, you wouldn’t believe how incredibly thin it is (oops sorry, slipped into THHGTTG mode there) in fact it’s only a few tens of atoms across (Edit - This is WRONG, see next post).  At this point you might imagine an orderly stream of electrons marching in single file through the base region but it’s actually nothing like that.  The silicon atoms are held in a crystal matrix but are violently vibrating due to thermal energy and in the process the electrons are being bounced around all over the shop and hence tend to spread out sideways.  This is called diffusion.  At room temperatures the diffusion path length is larger than the width of the base region so the electrons tend to stray into the two depletion layers.   Any electrons (or rice crispies) that enter the base-collector depletion layer are whipped away by the strong electric field (remember that?) and become collector current.  Because the base region is so thin compared to its length very few of the electrons make it to the base terminal and so a small base current supports a large collector current.  QED – gain.

This behaviour explains why the gain is positively dependent on temperature and why gain falls off at low collector voltage when the voltage field is insufficient to prevent some of the electrons from being bounced back into the base region.  The thinner the base region  the higher the gain but it cannot ever be infinite because there must be some base conduction to maintain a voltage across the base-emitter junction.

Perhaps I should mention that in a forty year career as a circuit designer I have never actually needed to know any of this and it might be completely wrong, it’s just what I was told.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 10:46:28 pm by number33 »
Malvern - Worcestershire - England
 

Offline codeboy2k

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1836
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2015, 01:58:38 pm »
Bipolar junctions, unijunctions, junction gate FETs, MOSFET junctions, heterojunctions...

Roll on the "perfect transistor" which doesn't have any junctions.


I think they are making those now, as FinFETs and GAAFETs. Cool devices, by the way, especially the multi-gate implementations.
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21658
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2015, 05:35:36 pm »
Here’s the important bit,  the base region is extremely thin, you wouldn’t believe how incredibly thin it is (oops sorry, slipped into HHGTTG mode there) in fact it’s only a few tens of atoms across.

No, not nearly so!  You're off by several orders of magnitude.

The critical measurement is the diffusion length in silicon.  This varies by temperature (for obvious reasons?) and more strongly by material.

The distance a charge carrier can travel is limited by Brownian motion and recombination time.  In silicon, it's a few microns.  In germanium, it's tens of microns -- which is why BJT were first developed with germanium.  (Ge is also less sensitive to impurities, because the intrinsic carrier density at room temperature is equivalent to something like a ~0.001% doping of random P/N junk.  Or something like that.  So it was doubly easier to work with!)

A base region thicker/wider than the diffusion length obviously won't have many charge carriers left to diffuse into the collector junction, even if it starts out saturated by lots of forward bias on the emitter.

So, practical (usually diffused, then later, epitaxy as well) junctions are in the single to fractional micron range.

I don't think BJTs are ever much thinner than that; the doping at least would have to be much higher, leading to lower voltage ratings, and Early effect would be pretty significant (i.e., base junction thinning due to the size of the collector depletion region).

It's worth noting that the channel conduction region in modern CMOS is about that level -- atoms (single nm) scale, that is.  The doping levels are very high, which makes high conductivity, high shielding effect (i.e., the channel region that appears beneath the gate is very thin), and high leakage (relative to the size) and low voltage tolerance (maybe 2V breakdown!).

Also for related info: early (60s-70s) IC processes had resolution on the order of one or a few microns.  So, one could draw some closely spaced lines, and apply P-N-P doping along them, to produce a lateral (current flow is sideways, not depthwise) transistor.  These were symmetrical and had the voltage rating of most collectors (i.e., 30V), hence the high differential input voltage range of pretty much every classic analog circuit (uA741, LM339, etc.).  hFE was pitiful (because of the wide base), maybe 5 at the most.  But that was still good enough for differential input pairs (which is why these devices almost always have negative input bias current) and current mirrors (the accuracy was poor, but just to get any bias was good enough).

Quote
This behaviour explains why the gain is positively dependent on temperature and why gain falls off at low collector voltage when the voltage field is insufficient to prevent some of the electrons from being bounced back into the base region.  The thinner the base region  the higher the gain but it cannot ever be infinite because there must be some base conduction to maintain a voltage across the base-emitter junction.

The rest is correct, as far as I know.  So for not having to use it, you remembered it awfully well, I guess :)

Some consequences:
- Superbeta transistors (hFE > 1000) require thin base layers
- So they should have terrible Early effect, and may even achieve punch-through rather than avalanche breakdown (i.e., the base thins so much that hFE effectively becomes infinite, amplifying its own leakage current into what looks like avalanche current; alternately, the base thins so much that it ceases to exist (punch-through), and collector and emitter join together, effectively shorting out the device at that terminal voltage).  So one should also expect low Vceo ratings.

Which as far as I know, are true, so it's good physics to know. :)

Tim
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline number33

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2015, 07:55:36 pm »
Here’s the important bit,  the base region is extremely thin, you wouldn’t believe how incredibly thin it is (oops sorry, slipped into HHGTTG mode there) in fact it’s only a few tens of atoms across.

No, not nearly so!  You're off by several orders of magnitude.


Thanks for the correction T3sl4co1l (catchy name by the way) my memory has obviously substituted "tens" for "thousands" or maybe "tens of thousands".  What's a few orders of magnitude between friends eh?  I'm impressed that I could remember any of the explanation at all considering that I can barely remember what I had for breakfast today.
Malvern - Worcestershire - England
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 21658
  • Country: us
  • Expert, Analog Electronics, PCB Layout, EMC
    • Seven Transistor Labs
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2015, 08:32:14 pm »
Thousands or tens of thousands would do (an atom is on the order of 0.2nm, so that would be ~um).  Simple omission. :)

Cheers,

TIm
Seven Transistor Labs, LLC
Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
Bringing a project to life?  Send me a message!
 

Offline Rasz

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2616
  • Country: 00
    • My random blog.
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2015, 09:09:15 pm »
Taking a seemingly difficult subject and explaining it as simply as possible is the start of understanding it. Great idea this Fundamental Friday.

You must be joking, this is a simple explanation (fast forward to 1:35 http://youtu.be/R_VlWQa0lpc?t=1m35s):

« Last Edit: June 01, 2015, 09:33:16 pm by Rasz »
Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
My fireplace is on fire, but in all the wrong places.
 

Offline c4757p

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7799
  • Country: us
  • adieu
Re: EEVblog #748 - How Do Transistors Work?
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2015, 09:47:21 pm »
Taking a seemingly difficult subject and explaining it as simply as possible is the start of understanding it. Great idea this Fundamental Friday.

You must be joking, this is a simple explanation (fast forward to 1:35 http://youtu.be/R_VlWQa0lpc?t=1m35s):


Quote
Remember how I said the resistor gives you the same amount of voltage on the other side, just lower current? It just lowers and limits the amperage that can go through it?

Stopped there.
No longer active here - try the IRC channel if you just can't be without me :)
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf