EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[BravoV]

They are now backtracking on their claim of it working with rechargeables. They are now recommending in the Indiegogo comments not to use it with rechargeables.

Wait till they backtracking even on "NON" rechargeables, as certain alkaline don't like to be discharged "deeply" as they will leak. 

Batteroo , guarantee it will make you alkaline cell leak like hell !!! 

[amyk]

OMG!
Batteriser have finally admitted they were wrong and used the wrong voltage measurement to characterise their product!

It looks like a hasty update as they didn't even edit the English; it should be "A significant number of... still have a lot of energy left in them."

More amusingly, they changed "makes your batteries last longer" to "makes it last longer"... which could be interpreted as making the Batteriser last longer and not the batteries!

The phrase "intelligent voltage management and delivery mechanism device" is really awkward too. Maybe they really wanted to slather on the marketese and do something like this instead:

Batteriser leverages intelligent voltage management and world-class delivery mechanisms through boost conversion to provide devices worldwide with robust, scalable, modern turnkey implementations of flexible, personalized, cutting-edge power management solution architectures that accelerate response to real-world current demands and reliably adapt to evolving energy needs, seamlessly and efficiently integrating and synchronizing with their existing legacy infrastructure, enhancing the battery consumption capabilities of production consumer electronic devices across the market while giving them a critical competitive advantage by extending their runtime capability to the next level.

[Fungus]

Most rechargeable battery chemistries will self destruct if taken down to 0 voltage, or even below 20%. They shouldn't be backtracking, they should be screaming to not use them for rechargeables!

And non-rechargeables might leak! Double whammy!

[Kjelt]

They are already 261% funded in two days, how many green power morons just press that button 

[lapm]

They are already 261% funded in two days, how many green power morons just press that button 

Great mass of people don't understand basic math/engineering principles enough to save themselves from scam...

Or where you think all those believers of directional audio cables come from 

[Fungus]

Indiegogo has a policy of not allowing scam products: https://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms

Prohibited Campaigns

Campaign Owners are not permitted to create a Campaign to raise funds for illegal activities, to cause harm to people or property, or to scam others.

If the Campaign is claiming to do the impossible or it's just plain phony, don't post it.

Maybe it's time to drop them a line...

[firewalker]

IGG is part of scamming process.

Alexander.

[Fungus]

Prohibited Campaigns

If the Campaign is claiming to do the impossible or it's just plain phony, don't post it.

Maybe it's time to drop them a line...

Line dropped, FWIW.

[apis]

They are already 261% funded in two days, how many green power morons just press that button 

Great mass of people don't understand basic math/engineering principles enough to save themselves from scam...

Or where you think all those believers of directional audio cables come from 

You can't really expect people to know everything, I certainly don't. Problem is that people put their trust in the wrong people.

Societies are based on trust, we tend to inherently trust other people in the community. It's probably something that is hard-coded in us on a fundamental level. A small percentage of people might be willing and able to take advantage of that unless there are mechanisms in place that prevent it.

People are also really bad at judging who to trust and who not to trust (source criticism), and people often believe what they want to be true rather than what is realistic, empirically provably fact or not. There is lots of interesting psychology going on I'm sure.

[Fungus]

Or where you think all those believers of directional audio cables come from 

You can't really expect people to know everything

They don't have to know everything, just enough to smell a rat.

[EEVblog]

You can't really expect people to know everything

They don't have to know everything, just enough to smell a rat.

I agree. The average intelligent person in the modern technical age should be able to see a claim like "8x longer battery life" and think "hang on, I've been using batteries all my life, and suddenly someone found a way to increase the battery life 8 times?, I smell an "up to" spec rat"

[apis]

In this case I agree that the claims they make are ridiculous, like 800% battery life, but people are used to exaggerated claims in advertising (and in many cases it's not like that, take the "anti corrosion car thing" mentioned elsewhere for example). These claims have also been repeated by what many would consider reliable sources. To most people a computer is just magic for example, so why shouldn't some gadget by some clever people be able to extend the battery life, if not by 800% , at least by a little. And then there are all the below average intelligent people that doesn't deserve to be scammed either.

Complaining about people being suckers won't help at least, because that will never change. (Consider all the people who pay hundreds of dollars for homoeopathic remedies, which have been proven over and over is obviously nothing else than plain water.  )

[mikerj]

They are already 261% funded in two days, how many green power morons just press that button 

Great mass of people don't understand basic math/engineering principles enough to save themselves from scam...

Or where you think all those believers of directional audio cables come from 

You can't really expect people to know everything, I certainly don't. Problem is that people put their trust in the wrong people.

Societies are based on trust, we tend to inherently trust other people in the community. It's probably something that is hard-coded in us on a fundamental level. A small percentage of people might be willing and able to take advantage of that unless there are mechanisms in place that prevent it.

Naive or uneducated people believe things on trust.  Other people stop and think for themselves.

[apis]

Naive or uneducated people believe things on trust.  Other people stop and think for themselves.

History shows that people aren't very good at thinking for themselves, not until we started testing if things actually work the way we believe (and they usually do not) did we make any progress.

Education is based mostly on trust in the teacher, books, school/uni and so on. To be really certain you'd have to test all the things you've learned and that isn't practical for most people. Of course, if you work with electronics for example, you would have noticed if things doesn't work as expected (i.e. you are testing the theory) but there will be much you can't test. How do you know the moon landing wasn't an elaborate hoax?

In this case, Dave did the proper thing and tested a couple of devices and showed that they do not stop working at 1.35 V. Problem is that Batteroo then says Dave performed the test the wrong way... Unless you yourself can tell who's right it comes down to trust.

But OK, I'll admit that in this case there are many red flags, like Dave isn't the one who's asking for money and 8x battery time is just way out there, etc.

[Fungus]

They don't have to know everything, just enough to smell a rat.

I agree. The average intelligent person in the modern technical age should be able to see a claim like "8x longer battery life" and think "hang on, I've been using batteries all my life, and suddenly someone found a way to increase the battery life 8 times?, I smell an "up to" spec rat"

I wonder: At what point would people actually stop and think?

"Up to 100x longer battery life!"

 (from our newly discovered quantum battery booster - tap into the quantum field that surrounds us all)

[Fungus]

Naive or uneducated people believe things on trust.  Other people stop and think for themselves.

Education was compulsory in a lot of places last time I checked.

(But I don't remember receiving any 'critical thinking' classes at school...maybe that's the real problem)

[apis]

(But I don't remember receiving any 'critical thinking' classes at school...maybe that's the real problem)

That sounds like a good idea!

[Fungus]

Prohibited Campaigns

If the Campaign is claiming to do the impossible or it's just plain phony, don't post it.

Maybe it's time to drop them a line...

Line dropped, FWIW.

"Hi there,

Thank you for sharing your concern with us. At this time, the campaign is under review to ensure that it adheres to our Terms of Use (http://www.indiegogo.com/about/terms). We will follow up with you if we have any further questions.

So what happens now? We will include the information you have provided along with all other information at our disposal in our review of the campaign. In some cases, we will contact the campaign owner to have them edit their campaign and it will remain on our platform. If the project doesn't follow our rules, we may remove the campaign. We may also restrict the campaign owner's future activities on Indiegogo.

To protect our users' privacy, we're unable to share the action we take. At Indiegogo, we take the trust and safety of our community very seriously, and we greatly appreciate your patience and understanding throughout this review process. To learn more about Indiegogo’s Trust & Safety effort, please visit: www.indiegogo.com/trust"

[TheSlider]

I was posting a reply to a user when they spammed the comments
So then I came here and saw this huge topic. Wow. Are they doing this on every video mentioning the Batteriser ? Looks like someone is having fun with a bot.

[Carl_Smith]

Just had a thought.  This is like the 200mpg carburetor conspiracy.  People want to believe, even if it does defy the laws of physics.

Dave is being paid off by "big battery" to make sure that their sales aren't negatively impacted.   

[McBryce]

Dave is being paid off by "big battery" to make sure that their sales aren't negatively impacted.   

We'll know if he turns up in a Varta / Duracell T-Shirt in the next video

McBryce.

[EEVblog]

I was posting a reply to a user when they spammed the comments
So then I came here and saw this huge topic. Wow. Are they doing this on every video mentioning the Batteriser ? Looks like someone is having fun with a bot.

Yes, there is clear evidence that Batteriser are paying SEO people to spam comments on videos.
The "fan" Youtube channel for Batteriser that claims to be independent is anything but, it's most likely them, or someone paid by them.
And the "fan videos" that have been submitted are clearly fake and professionally shot and scripted.
It's so pathetic.
All classic startup Kickstarter marketing BS straight out of the MBA playbook.

[EEVblog]

In this case, Dave did the proper thing and tested a couple of devices and showed that they do not stop working at 1.35 V. Problem is that Batteroo then says Dave performed the test the wrong way... Unless you yourself can tell who's right it comes down to trust.

Then Batteroo finally came out and admitted that it was actually 1.1V under load they talking about, thus proving I am completely right. After 5 years of developing this and never once mentioning it in the patent or their website or any promo material, press, or videos etc, they finally admitted it. But it only lasted a day or two before they removed the mention of 1.1V under load form their website.
Luckily I had it screen captured:

Everyone should keep reposting this everywhere!
It blows their claim completely out of the water, and it's why they had to change the wording in their promo video too, their logo etc.
They know that once they admitted that it's trivial for anyone to look a battery datasheet and see how much energy is really wasted in the battery at the 1.1V cutoff they have admitted. That puts their product, buy their own admission!, in the territory of only applying to a smaller number of badly designed products. No wonder they removed it.

The only thing they had left to defend themselves was the ridiculous and embarrassing claim that I did the testing wrong.
I'm in two minds whether to do another video busting absolutely everything they have done and have said, and changed etc. But I know it won't amount to a hill of beans.
Should I bother?

[jancumps]

...
The "fan" Youtube channel for Batteriser that claims to be independent is anything but, it's most likely them, or someone paid by them.
And the "fan videos" that have been submitted are clearly fake and professionally shot and scripted.
It's so pathetic.
...

The first fan video (nature man) was submitted before they explained on youtube and google+ how and where to submit them.

[EEVblog]

The first fan video (nature man) was submitted before they explained on youtube and google+ how and where to submit them.

That's what you can do when you paid to shoot it