Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 2507004 times)

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Offline BradC

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7025 on: December 09, 2016, 12:30:28 pm »
I'm sure everybody here has too many multimeters.

You can *never* have too many multimeters.
 
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Offline Kean

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7026 on: December 09, 2016, 12:35:52 pm »
No, it wouldn't. Nobody prints packaging in bulk months before the product begins manufacturing.

Actually it is quite easy to believe they could have done a sample (or even a large) print run of those backing cards early on for a whole bunch of reasons.  We know they are poor planners and thought they were ready to ship a while back.  Compared to the production of the devices themselves, printing these wouldn't have been costly or difficult.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7027 on: December 09, 2016, 12:38:47 pm »
No, it wouldn't. Nobody prints packaging in bulk months before the product begins manufacturing.

Actually it is quite easy to believe they could have done a sample (or even a large) print run of those backing cards early on for a whole bunch of reasons.  We know they are poor planners and thought they were ready to ship a while back.  Compared to the production of the devices themselves, printing these wouldn't have been costly or difficult.

Last year they were promising to send "press packs" to people. It's easy to believe they made a few boxes in preparation for that.

(and that's what they're sending out now ... only the 'AAA' packages are new)
 

Offline timb

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7028 on: December 09, 2016, 01:51:17 pm »
No, it wouldn't. Nobody prints packaging in bulk months before the product begins manufacturing.

Actually it is quite easy to believe they could have done a sample (or even a large) print run of those backing cards early on for a whole bunch of reasons.  We know they are poor planners and thought they were ready to ship a while back.  Compared to the production of the devices themselves, printing these wouldn't have been costly or difficult.

Right, I guess that was my other point. I mentioned this several pages back, but basically, they either:

Printed up a hundred or so as packaging samples for press kits...

*or*

Printed up tens of thousands over a year before the device reportedly entered production (if they *ever* entered production). Making them horrible at this whole running a business thing.

Either scenario is equally plausible, though my money is on the former, as Bob does come from Flextronics, so I'd assume he has at least a basic grasp on how manufacturing and packaging works.

Personally, I find it highly unlikely they had tens of thousands of packages made up after the Kickstarter, as a lot companies that do product packaging have moved to "Print on Demand" for small and medium volume runs. In this scenario the assembled product would be shipped from the factory in China to the packaging company, which would take care of boxing and printing in-house. That would be the most cost effective for their volume I think.
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Offline Kean

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7029 on: December 09, 2016, 02:08:49 pm »
In this scenario the assembled product would be shipped from the factory in China to the packaging company, which would take care of boxing and printing in-house. That would be the most cost effective for their volume I think.

Sure, that would be what sensible business owners would plan, but we know they are actually shipping from the USA.  :-DD
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7030 on: December 09, 2016, 03:07:52 pm »
In this scenario the assembled product would be shipped from the factory in China to the packaging company, which would take care of boxing and printing in-house. That would be the most cost effective for their volume I think.
Sure, that would be what sensible business owners would plan, but we know they are actually shipping from the USA.  :-DD

They only ship three packages per week and that's where their 'stock' is, so...  :-//

Most printers these days will do small runs, no problem. It's all digital, no making engraved metal plates any more.
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7031 on: December 09, 2016, 03:21:32 pm »
I'm in Germany, if he sends some to me I'll gladly send them to Dave for free.

Customs could withhold it, since it doesn't have a CE sticker. Nor does it include a Declaration of Conformity.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7032 on: December 09, 2016, 04:23:09 pm »
I'm in Germany, if he sends some to me I'll gladly send them to Dave for free.

Customs could withhold it, since it doesn't have a CE sticker. Nor does it include a Declaration of Conformity.

How did the Swiss guy then got it? Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but they require CE markings, too.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7033 on: December 09, 2016, 04:48:53 pm »
I'm in Germany, if he sends some to me I'll gladly send them to Dave for free.

Customs could withhold it, since it doesn't have a CE sticker. Nor does it include a Declaration of Conformity.

How did the Swiss guy then got it? Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but they require CE markings, too.

They're not going to check conformity on individual items/packets, only on huge shipments that look like they're for resale.

And even then I'm not sure. I can buy dangerous, fake, imported crap in any number of places around here.
 
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Offline Towger

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7034 on: December 09, 2016, 05:06:08 pm »
How did the Swiss guy then got it? Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but they require CE markings, too.

Only German Customs seem to care about CE marks on private imports.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7035 on: December 09, 2016, 05:17:34 pm »
They're not going to check conformity on individual items/packets, only on huge shipments that look like they're for resale.
Huge shipments, right, no problem with Batteroo :-DD
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Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7036 on: December 09, 2016, 05:44:28 pm »
Customs could withhold it, since it doesn't have a CE sticker. Nor does it include a Declaration of Conformity.

How did the Swiss guy then got it? Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but they require CE markings, too.

From what I've heard, German customs sometimes checks the small random gadget for a CE label. But I think this happens only in rare cases - too much parcels. Presumably other countries do this the same way. So it's more like having bad luck, than being the usual thing to happen.
 

Offline Kalvin

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7037 on: December 09, 2016, 05:47:40 pm »
Customs could withhold it, since it doesn't have a CE sticker. Nor does it include a Declaration of Conformity.

How did the Swiss guy then got it? Switzerland is not a member of the EU, but they require CE markings, too.

From what I've heard, German customs sometimes checks the small random gadget for a CE label. But I think this happens only in rare cases - too much parcels. Presumably other countries do this the same way. So it's more like having bad luck, than being the usual thing to happen.

Just say it is a prototype, not actual product yet. Case closed.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7038 on: December 10, 2016, 09:57:00 am »
By the way, if you have a Raspberry Pi, you can use it for logging. See this project. There is a SD card image with some programs pre-installed and some examples. It supports already some multimeters with GPIB (with USB adapters), with USB interfaces and serial port interfaces. It is easy to enhance, I just wrote a Python script for my HM8012 which creates this output (charging a 1200 F Maxwell supercap with 3 A constant current), logging the voltage exactly every 10 seconds, and which you can display with the integrated web browser on the Rasperry Pi. Or you can mount the Raspberry Pi SD card as a Windows drive over network and just open the raw CSV data. No need to swap SD cards, complicated and proprietary software or limited memory (it needs some time to fill e.g. a 64 GB SD card). It looks like this in the browser with the installed D3js web framework for data visualization:



The diagram can be reloaded while the measurement is running. Another example with multiple curves in one diagram:



The project needs still some work, maybe an easier to use interface for standard tasks, if you don't want to write a Python script, but it is already very useful for me, and maybe for someone who wants to test the Batteriser and record some data.
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Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7039 on: December 10, 2016, 01:03:07 pm »
So yet another week passes and how many extra report getting them? One in Germany?
How many weeks is this now from when they not only said they had shipped, but said in that shipping update that some would already have them by that update notice, it's been so long I've lost count.
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7040 on: December 10, 2016, 01:18:00 pm »
With the slow shipping I would have said they were using SAPO, but that would have resulted in a few being sold on Ebay already from those that were "lost" in the shipping process.
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7041 on: December 10, 2016, 01:34:58 pm »
Switzerland, not Germany. And the shipping happens exactly as anticipated.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7042 on: December 10, 2016, 01:51:19 pm »
So yet another week passes and how many extra report getting them? One in Germany?

And nobody in the USA.

How many weeks is this now from when they not only said they had shipped, but said in that shipping update that some would already have them by that update notice, it's been so long I've lost count.

According to Bob+Wayne they should be approaching 100% shipped by now (Wayne assured us they were at 30% shipped after the first month and had fixed all the bugs in the shipping process).

IGG says there's 7393 backers so a very conservative estimate is that 4000-5000 people should have their Batterisers by now.

Maybe the "30%" number really means that 30% of last-years leftover prototypes had been shipped.  :popcorn:




Another update? Why would you need another update?



a) Tracking codes not working?
b) Using USPS to ship $10 items to thousands of people all over the world?

« Last Edit: December 10, 2016, 01:59:52 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7043 on: December 10, 2016, 02:17:15 pm »
Another update? Why would you need another update?
The next update could be "all items have been shipped" (would be plausible after such a long time after the first announcement that shipping started), to get the rest of the VC money for a nice vacation :popcorn:
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Offline Luminax

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7044 on: December 10, 2016, 04:20:00 pm »
Quote
According to Bob+Wayne they should be approaching 100% shipped by now (Wayne assured us they were at 30% shipped after the first month and had fixed all the bugs in the shipping process).

I'm not sure I remember the exact word Boob used... was it up to30%?  :-DD

And we have no real way to ascertain what's the total number to really know how many people are in the 30%
After all, I'm 99.9999% sure the backers list are bloated with "FANS"

I gave up poking around in the backers listing after 3-5 pages...
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7045 on: December 10, 2016, 05:15:47 pm »
And we have no real way to ascertain what's the total number to really know how many people are in the 30%

I think we can infer it from the number of photos so far.

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7046 on: December 10, 2016, 10:31:11 pm »
I haven't followed this thread so closely that I can be sure there is no forum member awaiting delivery. Has anyone here said they ordered some and are awaiting delivery?

Yes.

(I don't remember names, but, "yes")

Has Dave said he ordered some?

Suuuure... they're going to post some to "David Jones, Australia".

(no, I don't think Dave ordered any on IGG)
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7047 on: December 11, 2016, 03:59:09 am »
Can some be ordered from their website? If they don't arrive within a reasonable time, simply request a charge-back through your bank?
 

Offline quad

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7048 on: December 11, 2016, 06:58:34 am »
Another received. I have no idea what order these guys are shipping in...!

http://imgur.com/a/078Xw

« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 07:01:12 am by quad »
 

Offline quad

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7049 on: December 11, 2016, 07:11:11 am »
Pics from above backer, higher res available at http://imgur.com/a/078Xw (file size uploads here)
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 07:13:36 am by quad »
 
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