Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 2505603 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7050 on: December 11, 2016, 07:39:58 am »
Has Dave said he ordered some?
Suuuure... they're going to post some to "David Jones, Australia".
(no, I don't think Dave ordered any on IGG)

Rest assured that some of the IGG units will be making their way to me...
 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7051 on: December 11, 2016, 07:44:38 am »
From David Kaplan:
Quote
Now as to the Batteroos themselves:
The Good: My Apple trackpad went from 39% battery charge to 87%!

No, they did not go from 39% charge to 87% charge. The voltage indicator went from 39% to 87%. Voltage level meters are very different from actual charge in a battery.
Unfortunately the average lay person will think this ia big deal when in fact it's not and is completely expected from any form of boost converter.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7052 on: December 11, 2016, 07:44:41 am »
Since he got his by USPS, is this the first US delivery ?
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Offline janekm

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7053 on: December 11, 2016, 09:26:15 am »
Pics from above backer, higher res available at http://imgur.com/a/078Xw (file size uploads here)

Some interesting details in those pictures, the construction looks a little different than I expected, not just a PCB at the top welded to the sleeve, but perhaps a very thin PCB with either potting over the components or some kind of stiffener, then coated in the red insulator?

Also, AA version with Batteroo branded packaging, but Batteriser stamping?
 

Offline Blocco

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7054 on: December 11, 2016, 10:05:19 am »
The fit in that Apple keyboard is ridiculous, I hope the benefits outweigh the inconvenience and expense of bent and broken battery terminals and plastic casings. And, they won't even fit in a Maglite (I assume the original non LED type), one of the very few devices that could have benefited from a Batteroooo :palm:

Is this the "lame changing" technology Bob Rhubarb keeps banging on about?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 11:02:03 am by Blocco »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7055 on: December 11, 2016, 11:37:56 am »
From David Kaplan:
Quote
Now as to the Batteroos themselves:
The Good: My Apple trackpad went from 39% battery charge to 87%!
No, they did not go from 39% charge to 87% charge.

Shouldn't it have gone to 100%?  :popcorn:
 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7056 on: December 11, 2016, 11:42:32 am »
The fit in that Apple keyboard is ridiculous, I hope the benefits outweigh the inconvenience and expense of bent and broken battery terminals and plastic casings.

No to mention the battery gauge now being rendered utterly useless  :palm:
It's rather ironic that the one feature (battery gauge going to 100%) that will be used by the public to laud the Batteriser, will be the same feature that the public will eventually ridicule it with (when you product just dies without any low battery warning).
 

Offline amspire

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7057 on: December 11, 2016, 12:20:06 pm »
If there is anything good in the idea at all, battery manufacturers could easily make slightly shorter batteries with a plug-in regulator top to do the job much better then the Batteriser can ever do.

Obviously Batteroo hopes their pending patents somehow give them the rights to royalties for this idea, but the problem is that they didn't invent the boosters or the idea of a single cell battery pack with a built in booster - they just invented the clip that the battery manufacturers would not need or ever want to use.

Their best hope is that if a big battery manufacturer wants to start selling batteries with integrated boosters, they may just pay Batteroo to go away.
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7058 on: December 11, 2016, 12:41:01 pm »
Shouldn't it have gone to 100%?  :popcorn:

This was a different keyboard, see video below. When you search for the CMII ID you can see in the photo of the backer, you can find this FCC page where you can read "Equipment Type: A1016" (and it is very old, from 2003). Searching for A1016 will get you some pages on Amazon and eBay where you can buy it.

Maybe someone here has such a keyboard? At what voltage levels does it show 39% and 87%? With enough such reports from backers, we could draw a characteristics curve :)

But I don't think that these keyboards are so much different. Maybe they faked it in the original video? This might be the reason for using a wireless keyboard as a test: It is really easy to use just another keyboard offscreen and put in fresh batteries.

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
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Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7059 on: December 11, 2016, 12:47:27 pm »
If there is anything good in the idea at all, battery manufacturers could easily make slightly shorter batteries with a plug-in regulator top to do the job much better then the Batteriser can ever do.

And there is a reason why they haven't done so. I explained above, it's because it would render useless every battery gauge in every product it is put in. It's a fundamentally stupid idea that will do nothing but piss off the customer and make them never buy your batteries again.
Customers do not want the functionality of their product broken, especially the battery gauge.
 
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Online Cerebus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7060 on: December 11, 2016, 12:58:14 pm »
Suuuure... they're going to post some to "David Jones, Australia".
(no, I don't think Dave ordered any on IGG)

Rest assured that some of the IGG units will be making their way to me...

You do realize that you have probably single-handedly stopped anybody in Australia that Bob doesn't personally know from actually being shipped any of these?  :)
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Kalvin

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7061 on: December 11, 2016, 01:00:27 pm »
Suuuure... they're going to post some to "David Jones, Australia".
(no, I don't think Dave ordered any on IGG)

Rest assured that some of the IGG units will be making their way to me...

You do realize that you have probably single-handedly stopped anybody in Australia that Bob doesn't personally know from actually being shipped any of these?  :)

Goes very well for the rest of the globe as well. Bob knows that he cannot be too careful with this one.
 

Online Cerebus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7062 on: December 11, 2016, 01:33:02 pm »



Many years ago I used to work for a large manufacturer of corrugated cardboard boxes, so I know what I'm looking at here. Those boxes are not a stock item, they fit the actual Batteroo product packaging too well. Bob has had to pay to have those made and the economics of a printed, die cut case like that dictate that you don't order a few dozen of them, you order a few thousand. The NRE costs of having the cutting die designed and made dominate the order costs for small (i.e. less than 10-20 thousand) orders. I can tell just from looking that they're not hand cut sample cases, they were actually die cut.

Even if he used the cheapest printer in the world (probably Chinese nowadays), Bob has got a few thousand of those cases sitting somewhere. That's weirdly at odds with all the other evidence that suggests that only a handful of these have actually been shipped and the implication from that, that only a small set of pre-production samples of the actual product are available.

It has been suggested this is an attempt to pass some funding milestone by shipping a few and claiming somewhat more. If so, it's a damn sight more expensive than just dumping a few pre-production samples in a standard box full of packing peanuts and shipping them out. If it is window dressing, then it's required a lot of effort and money and going to that effort to be able to show a major backer 'convincing' final packaging would start to look a lot more like fraud and a lot less like incompetence or getting in over your head.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Revive Batteries

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7063 on: December 11, 2016, 03:47:48 pm »
G’day Tossers,

I’m back again (Dave must have forgotten to delete me?).

Anyway, I’d like to use this wank of a blog, to formally let you know that “I am in fact”, going to support the Batteroo Company.
 
Previously I said I had no firm commitment, one way or the other, but now I’ve decided it’s a winner. (Watch how many people say they “already knew”, or “I told you so” – obviously you all knew before me!)

It seems they have a product that will deliver an overall benefit to the average consumer, who by the way, is not generally interested in the “electrical engineering” viewpoint of statistics and graphs showing whether or not it achieves the up to 8 x maximum output that was first quoted over 2 years ago?

Your average person just wants a product that delivers a meaningful benefit at a reasonable price. If it works for them, they will buy again and also recommend it to others.
If not – good bye!!!
The market will decide, which, technically makes you lot completely irrelevant!

I’m sure most people would agree that you need to get over your ongoing obsession about the whole “up to 8x” deal. Quite obviously, it was an exited claim about one individual test 2 ½ years ago and has been pursued by you ever since.

 About time for you lot to catch up with the real world – December 2016 . 

Anyway, try not to troll the innocent commenter’s on Indiegogo too much and stay focused on your real goal, which is...........- WTF is it really????

This bit got me thinking????

Suddenly it clicked - !!!!

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Righto, so now I realise it’s just somebody else on the gravy train! How many gullible people will be jumping on board????

Enough said.
Just try the Batteroos for yourself and make up your own mind.

(You might realise that there is another world outside EEVblog?)
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7064 on: December 11, 2016, 04:41:51 pm »
Welcome back tosser.

You are willingly part of a scam product. Is there implication of selling such a product in Australia?

Alexander.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 05:04:35 pm by firewalker »
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 
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Offline drussell

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7065 on: December 11, 2016, 04:59:53 pm »
No to mention the battery gauge now being rendered utterly useless  :palm:
It's rather ironic that the one feature (battery gauge going to 100%) that will be used by the public to laud the Batteriser, will be the same feature that the public will eventually ridicule it with (when you product just dies without any low battery warning).

This is the one I love the most.  :)

It will be fun to see the reaction of all the people who, after their initial impressions (like their battery gauge going up) initally believe these will be a net benefit (Wayne @ Revive Batteries, for example) have when they realize that all these sleeves do in the vast majority of cases is render the battery gauge inoperative.  :)

It is true that you get steadier performance out of a simple motorized toy, for example, but any device in which you get significantly increased performance from, the runtime wll be significantly less for.  It doesn't magically increase the individual cells' capacity!  I don't care about the exact number being less than 8X or 800% or whatever their ridiculous claims are, it's not going to even increase the cell's usable capacity AT ALL!

I've sold plenty of motorized toys of the adult variety variety and they are, indeed, one particular niche (though a huge volume niche) where some people might enjoy the benefit from a boost converter, and indeed, the higher-end products are electonrically controlled and include boost converters but the vast majority of the stuff that people buy are VERY cheap Chineese crap, mostly due to the insane markups.  I get them wholesale at prices ranging down to about 10% of what the retail shops typically charge on some items.   I'm not in the store retail business in any way but their markups are insane!  (Not that most retail markup isn't insane, but this particular market is really insane.)  :)

Many of those customers wouldn't be pleased about the potential for sudden stopping, though, so would probably always put in fresh cells before they... er... use... their toys, which is counter to another of the original claims of saving the environment through reduced cell waste.  I just keep boxes of the Duracell Pro-Cells around and people might want a few extra extra sets if they intend to use a Batteroo sleeve with their toys.  :)

Plus, I always highly recommend rechargables.  :)

« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 05:14:09 pm by drussell »
 
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Offline ez24

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7066 on: December 11, 2016, 05:14:56 pm »
One thing Bob could do to calm things down a little is state these things are not recommended to be used in devices with battery gauges like he did with LED flashlights.

If these things work I can see them selling good in toy stores.

My guess is the adult entertainment industry does not use gauges  :-DD
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Online PA0PBZ

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7067 on: December 11, 2016, 05:15:22 pm »
I’m back again (Dave must have forgotten to delete me?).
Only the Batteroo people are deleting postings and baning people with unpleasant opinions and statements.

He asked to have his account deleted.
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7068 on: December 11, 2016, 06:21:33 pm »
I think this forum needs a section for social engineering  >:D
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7069 on: December 11, 2016, 06:26:10 pm »
I’m back again (Dave must have forgotten to delete me?).

Why would he do that?

(You might realise that there is another world outside EEVblog?)

Looking for snake oil products to sell to innocent people?
 
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Offline SeanB

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7070 on: December 11, 2016, 07:56:40 pm »
One thing Bob could do to calm things down a little is state these things are not recommended to be used in devices with battery gauges like he did with LED flashlights.

If these things work I can see them selling good in toy stores.

My guess is the adult entertainment industry does not use gauges  :-DD

No, they rely on feel alone. Amplitude is the determining factor, along with frequency.
 
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Offline quad

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7071 on: December 11, 2016, 10:07:00 pm »
People are getting curious about the 9v promise... funny how Bob has been completely ignoring this?

As much as I may disagree with Wayne on this particular issue, I do acknowledge that declaring his vested interest is the most decent thing anyone associated with Batteroo has done?



And just again for everyone, EEVBlog people care about the data, the curves..... Batteroo have just been acting all weird about it, and in the absence of accurate information, speculation (entertaining speculation, mind you!) ensues.

 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7072 on: December 11, 2016, 10:15:04 pm »
G’day Tossers,
I’m back again (Dave must have forgotten to delete me?).

I knew you'd come back.
But ok, now your account is banned as requested so you won't accidentally be temped to come back.
Thanks for all the fish.

Everyone, can we focus on the Batteriser please, this thread is ridiculously long as it is.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2016, 10:20:30 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline djos

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7073 on: December 11, 2016, 11:36:44 pm »
Dave, please edit his post removing all the part were he asks for donation.

I dont think he was asking for donations, he was taking a cheap shot at Dave re his Patreon account and donations to keep the blog going etc.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

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Offline Someone

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7074 on: December 11, 2016, 11:46:39 pm »
You are willingly part of a scam product. Is there implication of selling such a product in Australia?
Advertising standards a quite strict in Australia, so it will depend on what they claim the product does. But the regulators don't really go after small fish so they might just ignore it.
 


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