Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 2487700 times)

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Offline CJay

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7100 on: December 12, 2016, 01:34:20 pm »
I reckon, if it ever sees the mass market, it'll end up being flogged on QVC or similar where the rest of the impractical gadgets of limited to zero use/value end up,.

It's quite amusing to browse the local QVC outlet stores where you can find goods similar to Homer's Juice Loosener

 

Offline lpickup

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7101 on: December 12, 2016, 02:52:44 pm »
Sonny_Jim & Brumby, you are talking about two entirely different things...

Sonny_Jim is talking about whether the product meets its stated claims.

Brumby is talking about whether the produce can enjoy even a nominal amount of commercial success.

These two things are not necessarily mutually exclusive.  There are plenty of people out there who will derive some benefit (or at least think they do), even though it does not meet the EE community's very strict set of data-driven benefits.  The audiophool industry is just one example of an entire industry built on charging people ridiculous amounts of money for what is in effect a non-measurable benefit.
 
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Offline lpickup

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7102 on: December 12, 2016, 03:02:50 pm »
I think the Batteroo sleeves would be useful for simple gadgets without any battery gauge and with a direct impact of the voltage on the performance, especially when using rechargeable batteries. Things like Probes the Monkey or Chinese "good vibrations" would benefit. The latter could be a viable market. Anyway, it's not what Batteroo has advertised from the beginning.

Why even put the caveat that the gadget doesn't have a battery gauge?  I will disagree with Dave & others making the (valid) point that the battery gauge is rendered useless when the Batteriser is used.  So what?  It's not like I'm monitoring the battery gauge on my wireless keyboard (if I had one anyway) to count how many hours I have until my battery dies so I can plan ahead and be ready.  I have a box of batteries in my drawer, and when the keyboard stops working, I replace them.  I don't really care what the battery gauge says.

Now okay, there are some applications where this isn't the case and that I would actually pay attention to what the gauge says.  But in most cases, like the guy with the LEGO train, even if the device works better (faster, brighter, whatever) for awhile, but then suddenly stops earlier than what it would have done without the Batteriser, maybe that's a good thing.

As an example, my satellite TV receiver has been displaying a "low battery" warning on the screen for literally the past 4-5 months.  I have been ignoring it.  I will wait until the day when I hit a button and nothing happens, then I will replace the batteries.  The "gauge" that it shows me on the screen is meaningless to me, and even a distraction.  And if I were to use Batteroo standards to determine when to call the test quits (i.e. when the very first low battery warning appeared), I could even (incorrectly) make the claim that yes, the Batteroo did actually extend the life of my remote (even though as I know, you can actually get several more months of use after the first warning appears).
 

Offline drussell

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7103 on: December 12, 2016, 04:10:01 pm »
...
especially when using rechargeable batteries.

Except that they specifically say to NOT use them with rechargeable calls.

As I've said several times before, if the product had been designed as a converter which boosted the typical 1.2v from a rechargeable to 1.5v, it could be a useful product in more instances.  They could even have the converter attempt to mimic the output voltage curve somewhat so that battery gauges would still work, at least somewhat...  but NO, it is supposedly to be used only with primary cells.
 

Online madires

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7104 on: December 12, 2016, 04:31:42 pm »
...
especially when using rechargeable batteries.

Except that they specifically say to NOT use them with rechargeable calls.

Possibly to prevent users from draining the rechargeables too much, because that would destroy them.

As I've said several times before, if the product had been designed as a converter which boosted the typical 1.2v from a rechargeable to 1.5v, it could be a useful product in more instances.  They could even have the converter attempt to mimic the output voltage curve somewhat so that battery gauges would still work, at least somewhat...  but NO, it is supposedly to be used only with primary cells.

They simply would have to design a version with a cut-off voltage for rechargeable cells.
 

Offline drussell

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7105 on: December 12, 2016, 07:32:48 pm »
Except that they specifically say to NOT use them with rechargeable calls.

Possibly to prevent users from draining the rechargeables too much, because that would destroy them.

Well, that depends on the chemistry of the cell...  Some don't like repeated deep discharge (like lead acid, of course), but for NiCd, for example, you're SUPPOSED to store them in as deeply discharged of a state as possible (or fully discharged, then stored shorted) to prolong the cell life.

For long term storage of spacecraft NiCd battery packs, NASA reccomends:

1. Discharge at C/2 constant current rate to first cell at 1.0 Volts
2. Drain each cell with a 1 ohm resistor to less than 0.03V
3. Short each cell with a bar
4. Place batteries in a sealed bag with dessicant (stops condensation)
5. Store in cold temperature (about 0 deg C)

Edit:  Note that for battery packs, you must discharge each cell individually!!!
Trying to fully dicharge multiple cells in series will end up reverse-charging the cells that get low first with the "magic pixie juice" from the rest of the cells and destroy the first ones!!!


Quote
As I've said several times before, if the product had been designed as a converter which boosted the typical 1.2v from a rechargeable to 1.5v, it could be a useful product in more instances.  They could even have the converter attempt to mimic the output voltage curve somewhat so that battery gauges would still work, at least somewhat...  but NO, it is supposedly to be used only with primary cells.

They simply would have to design a version with a cut-off voltage for rechargeable cells.

Well, obviously....  and that would be a far more useful product for all those circumstances where the various rechargable cell chemistries don't work well in products designed for primary cells...   

But that isn't what they're peddling!

« Last Edit: December 12, 2016, 07:40:34 pm by drussell »
 

Offline mc172

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7106 on: December 12, 2016, 07:44:19 pm »
"Original"?

This is Batteroo's website right now:



That's what's being sold to people.

It might be now, but it wasn't originally. It's missing a zero.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2928997/batteriser-is-a-250-gadget-that-extends-disposable-battery-life-by-800-percent.html



8 times is 800%.
 

Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7107 on: December 12, 2016, 08:03:26 pm »
8 times is 800%.

The one claim I think they've never changed was that devices only use 20% of the power. All the rest is bad math.
 

Offline ez24

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7108 on: December 12, 2016, 09:23:03 pm »
8 times is 800%.

The one claim I think they've never changed was that devices only use 20% of the power. All the rest is bad math.

Bob Math:

100%-20% = 80%  = 8x =  8 times

So according to Bob Math these put out 8 times the power.  AND I would like you to prove me wrong  :-DD

No one can show that Bob Math is wrong (using his Bats).   So I believe according to mathematicians something is true if it cannot be proved false (like gravity), thus it must be true.

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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7109 on: December 13, 2016, 01:15:22 am »
A lousy one more
 

Offline boffin

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7110 on: December 13, 2016, 02:16:42 am »
MATH:

If a battery lasts 1 SNAFU of time;

80% longer = 1.8 SNAFUs
800% longer = 9 SNAFUs
8x as long = 8 SNAFUs
"taps into the 80% left behind" = 5 SNAFUs

Which is it Bob ?

 
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Online forrestc

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7111 on: December 13, 2016, 03:22:12 am »
I agree that there's some quite bad math going on....

Starting with the (most likely incorrect) statement that only 20% of the capacity of  a battery is used, and that batteriser lets you use 100%...  then the following statements would be mathematically correct:

a) You are able to extract the remaining 80% of capacity.
b) Get 5 times the energy out of the battery (20% would be 1 times)  (not 8x)
c) 400% more energy out of your battery (not 800%)

And other similar mathematical constructions.

But this whole 80% = 8x = 800% drives me nuts.   Math doesn't work that way.

It's either 80% = 5x = 400%, or 12.5% = 8x = 700% more, or 11.1% = 9x = 800% more.  Pick one.

(I'd also be ok if they said 8x = 800% of the capacity, which is the same as 700% more capacity).
 

Offline ez24

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7112 on: December 13, 2016, 03:37:42 am »

Math doesn't work that way.

Bob Math works the way Bob says
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Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7113 on: December 13, 2016, 04:09:27 am »
Perhaps his calculator batteries are flat.   :-BROKE
 

Offline djos

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EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7114 on: December 13, 2016, 04:46:36 am »
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 04:48:14 am by djos »
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline quad

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7115 on: December 13, 2016, 05:18:37 am »
another



EDIT:

If you have a Batteriser and you're reading this, get in touch with Dave at EEVBlog https://www.eevblog.com/about/contact/

 Be a hero, and get $100 for your efforts  :-+

It'll be a pleasant experience, I promise! And you can remain anonymous if you wish.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2016, 12:41:41 am by quad »
 

Offline Towger

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7116 on: December 13, 2016, 06:40:52 am »
Kevin sounds as if he would be happy to send some Dave's way for a few bob.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7117 on: December 13, 2016, 07:03:36 am »
Kevin sounds as if he would be happy to send some Dave's way for a few bob.

You can't contact people via IGG though. Someone would have the post in the comments and for him to see it.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7118 on: December 13, 2016, 07:07:57 am »
another

It seems as though the people saying they haven't received them (or a shipping notification) outnumber the ones that say they have?
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7119 on: December 13, 2016, 07:09:59 am »
I think it might be the first instance of a negative statement that has been made by a recipient to date, I cant recall any others.

Nice work quad.   :)
 

Offline ez24

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7120 on: December 13, 2016, 07:22:28 am »
Someone would have the post in the comments and for him to see it.

I have wondering why no one does this?
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Offline Blocco

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7121 on: December 13, 2016, 09:12:44 am »
Batteroooo evangelist Wa**** (he who cannot be named) was kind enough to advertise this blog in his last IGG post so it's possible one of the more objective recipients (i.e. someone who doesn't believe they've witnessed an actual miracle when their device's battery gauge jumps to 100%) will read it and get in touch.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 11:03:22 am by Blocco »
 

Offline Zucca

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7122 on: December 13, 2016, 10:27:49 am »
CanĀ“t wait to see Dave with one of them in his hands.
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 

Offline quad

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7123 on: December 13, 2016, 11:20:56 am »
Well, guys... they work!  ;)



It's kind of like they're posting out 3-5 boxes a day?
 

Offline quad

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7124 on: December 13, 2016, 11:33:41 am »
Kevin sounds as if he would be happy to send some Dave's way for a few bob.

At the rate Batteroo are shipping, the second hand market may be the place to pick these up. Ebay, Craigslist, Gumtree... under the heading "Batteriser - UNWANTED XMAS GIFT"
 


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