EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[samgab]

The reason why Batteroo choose the Vivitar camera

https://twitter.com/GoBatteroo/status/816368105681289216

They chose that shitty camera because it is a "Best seller on Amazon"?  As far as I can tell from a quick browse on Amazon, that statement is utter bollocks.

"We chose that model of the Vivitar camera because it's a best seller on Amazon." Come on, let's just call that what it is: A blatant lie. This is one of the worst cameras out there and rated incredibly badly on Amazon, and very difficult to still purchase because it is discontinued. Of course, how it is rated on Amazon is irrelevant to how Batteroo's perform in it, but why are they so blatantly dishonest all the time? I would have dropped this whole Batteroo debacle ages ago if they were just honest. Also, why be so dishonest when a quick look at Amazon shows the truth in seconds?

[Blocco]

From Wikipedia....

"Pseudoscience is often characterized by the following: contradictory, exaggerated or unprovable claims; reliance on confirmation bias rather than rigorous attempts at refutation; lack of openness to evaluation by other experts; and absence of systematic practices when developing theories. The term pseudoscience is often considered pejorative because it suggests something is being presented as science inaccurately or even deceptively. Accordingly, those termed as practicing or advocating pseudoscience often dispute the characterization."

Otherwise known as Batteroo's business model.

[AlxDroidDev]

The reason why Batteroo choose the Vivitar camera

https://twitter.com/GoBatteroo/status/816368105681289216

They chose that shitty camera because it is a "Best seller on Amazon"?  As far as I can tell from a quick browse on Amazon, that statement is utter bollocks.

"We chose that model of the Vivitar camera because it's a best seller on Amazon."

If the scammers at Batteroo were serious, and if people who actually believe in Bob Rohparvar were smart, they'd know that when it comes to digital cameras, Vivitar is one of the worst brands ever. They had a name in the past, but like many others, they've pretty much become one of those companies that simply stamp their names on cheap chinese stuff.

This camera is so cheap it isn't even listed on DP Review.

On B&H Photo Video (one of the world's top online stores for photo gear), this camera has a rating of 1 ou of 5.

It isn't even listed on Adorama. That already says a lot!

This camera was chosen based on these factors:
- it is not a mainstream camera so not that many people can instantly repeat the tests. Actually, what type of people buy Vivitar DSCs?
- it is one of the few DSC being sold (are they?) that still use AA batteries
- it's battery compartment is so badly designed that it will fit the AA batteries with the sleeve (what a waste of space)
- it's power system is so badly designed it actually benefits from the batteroo sleeve

I wonder how long it took batteroo to find that camera. I wonder how many devices they tested their batteroos on before finding that crappy camera.

Edit: there is a Vivitar F126 on Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Vivitar-ViviCam-Digital-Camera-Megapixels/dp/B00SJKG5XE) and the price starts at US$ 12 (refurbished). 47% of the 17 reviews give it only 1 star.

[EEVblog]

I'm thinking my next video should be simply "The Top X Ways The Batteriser FAILED"
Or maybe "Batteriser - The Ultimate Product FAIL"
It's now clearly evident that there basically is no redeeming feature of the Batteriser, it's as bad or worse than we expected. So why not simply highlight the top 10(?) ways in which it fails?

Lack of robustness
Limited product fit
Limited increased performance (the failed train test)
Claimed increased battery life is actually the opposite (the MP3 and other tests)
No miracle performance with their customised IC, it's just a very ordinary boost converter.
Pretty awful ripple results.
Overheating (TBC)
Not to mention the multitude of ridiculous claims, their change of direction & backpedaling, the rigged GPS test, and maybe a similarly rigged camera test now.

And I haven't even thought about that list...

[FrankBuss]

I'm thinking my next video should be simply "The Top X Ways The Batteriser FAILED"
Or maybe "Batteriser - The Ultimate Product FAIL"
It's now clearly evident that there basically is no redeeming feature of the Batteriser, it's as bad or worse than we expected. So why not simply highlight the top 10(?) ways in which it fails?

Good idea. One interesting thing missing is the point "Are there limitations on devices that can use Batteroo Boost based on the current consumptions?" from the FAQ as well and their claim from one of their older videos that it helps for devices with high current spikes. I guess it doesn't work at all in such devices. And don't forget to test it in probes the monkey

PS: Don't know if it was mentioned here before, but if you look at batteroo.com at the "products" page, the sleeve with the "Batteroo" text is a bit different now, with perforation at the side, in the image where it is pushed in the Apple keyboard. And the "technology" page shows six solder pads for the battery plus terminal tongues instead of four with the old Batteriser sleeve, but this might be for the D cell version, only. But there is no other photo on the webpage with the sleeve with the perforation from the products page.

And in the Apple keyboard video you can see that they are using sleeves with the Batteroo text (but no perforation at the side). So they might have three different version and indeed shipped pre-production units with the Batteriser text. Next they will tell us, that the Batteriser sleeves don't perform as good as the Batteroo sleeves and all our tests are invalid

[samgab]

I'm thinking my next video should be simply "The Top X Ways The Batteriser FAILED"
Or maybe "Batteriser - The Ultimate Product FAIL"
It's now clearly evident that there basically is no redeeming feature of the Batteriser, it's as bad or worse than we expected. So why not simply highlight the top 10(?) ways in which it fails?

Lack of robustness
Limited product fit
Limited increased performance (the failed train test)
Claimed increased battery life is actually the opposite (the MP3 and other tests)
No miracle performance with their customised IC, it's just a very ordinary boost converter.
Pretty awful ripple results.
Overheating (TBC)
Not to mention the multitude of ridiculous claims, their change of direction & backpedaling, the rigged GPS test, and maybe a similarly rigged camera test now.

And I haven't even thought about that list...

Maybe before that conclusion vid, one more in the interim could be the in depth bench testing? Just a suggestion.

[ez24]

And don't forget to test it in probes the monkey

Has anyone noticed something funny in their video?  There are two monkeys in their video but they do not test them?

[amyk]

And don't forget to test it in probes the monkey

Has anyone noticed something funny in their video?  There are two monkeys in their video but they do not test them?

They probably originally purchased two intending to do a similar video, but tested them off-camera and found that the Batteriser didn't work.

The reason why Batteroo choose the Vivitar camera

https://twitter.com/GoBatteroo/status/816368105681289216

They chose that shitty camera because it is a "Best seller on Amazon"?  As far as I can tell from a quick browse on Amazon, that statement is utter bollocks.

"We chose that model of the Vivitar camera because it's a best seller on Amazon." Come on, let's just call that what it is: A blatant lie. This is one of the worst cameras out there and rated incredibly badly on Amazon, and very difficult to still purchase because it is discontinued. Of course, how it is rated on Amazon is irrelevant to how Batteroo's perform in it, but why are they so blatantly dishonest all the time? I would have dropped this whole Batteroo debacle ages ago if they were just honest. Also, why be so dishonest when a quick look at Amazon shows the truth in seconds?

...and now it appears they've deleted that tweet, as it shows "page not found" for me. The idiocy is astounding.

[Hensingler]

I'm thinking my next video should be simply "The Top X Ways The Batteriser FAILED"

Yes it is as big a fail as expected yet still they carry on with website updates, the contest, new videos.

What is the end game? I thought they would come to their senses, do their indiegogo backers a favour by refunding instead of shipping and call it a day.

Do they seriously think they are going find a buyer for the company? Do they seriously think they will get big orders from the likes of Walmart? Will dribs and drabs sold from their web site sustain anything? Are they just trying to shift the rest whatever sized batch of product they had built? Are they trying to get some more money from their VC backers?

You would have be be insane to put these on the shelves for general consumption, half would come back with doesn't fit, doesn't work, broke, or burnt me.

To me why they are carrying on now is more of a puzzle than why they started 18 months ago.

[ez24]

The reason why Batteroo choose the Vivitar camera

https://twitter.com/GoBatteroo/status/816368105681289216

I wonder why it was deleted?

[drussell]

I wonder why it was deleted?

Probably for exactly the same reason that none of the comments that have been posted on YouTube for the bogus Vivitar S126 video have been allowed to be made public! 

 

[JiggyNinja]

I'm thinking my next video should be simply "The Top X Ways The Batteriser FAILED"
Or maybe "Batteriser - The Ultimate Product FAIL"
It's now clearly evident that there basically is no redeeming feature of the Batteriser, it's as bad or worse than we expected. So why not simply highlight the top 10(?) ways in which it fails?

Lack of robustness
Limited product fit
Limited increased performance (the failed train test)
Claimed increased battery life is actually the opposite (the MP3 and other tests)
No miracle performance with their customised IC, it's just a very ordinary boost converter.
Pretty awful ripple results.
Overheating (TBC)
Not to mention the multitude of ridiculous claims, their change of direction & backpedaling, the rigged GPS test, and maybe a similarly rigged camera test now.

And I haven't even thought about that list...

I suggest a plain: Batterizer, Complete Failure

It's exactly as grandiose an obituary as their scam deserves, which is to say completely unremarkable.

I'm thinking my next video should be simply "The Top X Ways The Batteriser FAILED"

Yes it is as big a fail as expected yet still they carry on with website updates, the contest, new videos.

What is the end game? I thought they would come to their senses, do their indiegogo backers a favour by refunding instead of shipping and call it a day.

Do they seriously think they are going find a buyer for the company? Do they seriously think they will get big orders from the likes of Walmart? Will dribs and drabs sold from their web site sustain anything? Are they just trying to shift the rest whatever sized batch of product they had built? Are they trying to get some more money from their VC backers?

You would have be be insane to put these on the shelves for general consumption, half would come back with doesn't fit, doesn't work, broke, or burnt me.

To me why they are carrying on now is more of a puzzle than why they started 18 months ago.

There are only two possible endgames I can see, and neither of them are much of a puzzle.

1) Ride the money train as long as they can, whether from investors or further crowdfunding. Wring as much blood as they can out of this stone before moving on.
2) Pride. Humans can be incredibly resistant to admitting fault, some to a degree that you get the feeling it'd be easier for them to confess to a murder than admit a mistake.

I won't venture a guess about which of these it is, but it's definitely one of these two.

Has this reached the "biggest thread" mark yet? What's the other one?

[drussell]

Has this reached the "biggest thread" mark yet? What's the other one?

By number of posts, almost...  By views, not even close....

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/stats/

[EEVblog]

I'm thinking my next video should be simply "The Top X Ways The Batteriser FAILED"
Or maybe "Batteriser - The Ultimate Product FAIL"
It's now clearly evident that there basically is no redeeming feature of the Batteriser, it's as bad or worse than we expected. So why not simply highlight the top 10(?) ways in which it fails?

Lack of robustness
Limited product fit
Limited increased performance (the failed train test)
Claimed increased battery life is actually the opposite (the MP3 and other tests)
No miracle performance with their customised IC, it's just a very ordinary boost converter.
Pretty awful ripple results.
Overheating (TBC)
Not to mention the multitude of ridiculous claims, their change of direction & backpedaling, the rigged GPS test, and maybe a similarly rigged camera test now.

And I haven't even thought about that list...

Maybe before that conclusion vid, one more in the interim could be the in depth bench testing? Just a suggestion.

My plan has been two more videos. On for the technical measurements, and one final conclusion video.
But many people are saying not to bother with any more Batteriser videos, just don't give them the oxygen.

[samgab]

I'm thinking my next video should be simply "The Top X Ways The Batteriser FAILED"
Or maybe "Batteriser - The Ultimate Product FAIL"
It's now clearly evident that there basically is no redeeming feature of the Batteriser, it's as bad or worse than we expected. So why not simply highlight the top 10(?) ways in which it fails?

Lack of robustness
Limited product fit
Limited increased performance (the failed train test)
Claimed increased battery life is actually the opposite (the MP3 and other tests)
No miracle performance with their customised IC, it's just a very ordinary boost converter.
Pretty awful ripple results.
Overheating (TBC)
Not to mention the multitude of ridiculous claims, their change of direction & backpedaling, the rigged GPS test, and maybe a similarly rigged camera test now.

And I haven't even thought about that list...

Maybe before that conclusion vid, one more in the interim could be the in depth bench testing? Just a suggestion.

My plan has been two more videos. On for the technical measurements, and one final conclusion video.
But many people are saying not to bother with any more Batteriser videos, just don't give them the oxygen.

Yeah, I saw several comments of that nature on your last Batteroo Youtube video... But there are still a lot of people who don't have that opinion, and who do want to see the technical testing still, and the videos are still getting a lot of views and likes. Maybe it's just a vocal minority who feel that way? I dunno, your call, but personally, I would love to see at least a technical assessment video. But I'm just one opinion, and it's your time and channel...

Y

[EEVblog]

Do they seriously think they are going find a buyer for the company?

Yes.

Do they seriously think they will get big orders from the likes of Walmart?

Yes.

Will dribs and drabs sold from their web site sustain anything?

No.

Are they just trying to shift the rest whatever sized batch of product they had built?

They had to ship something to show the backs and the investors that it's a success.

Are they trying to get some more money from their VC backers?

They already just got their 2nd VC investment.

[Luminax]

VC and the world of management/business in general is very stupid to say the least...
If you guys are familiar with Simon's BOFH (I'm sure quite a lot are), the 'boss' and 'hod' in this case is the first VC and the second VC... so yeah, they have a serious case of bBS... blatantly blind stupidity
 

[Domagoj T]

I do wish someone can duplicate the test but it will be expensive and hard.  I will contribute to the cause.   Maybe someone could start a Kickstarter on this.  I think there are enough people here to raise a couple hundred to do this (if there is a volunteer to build the pressers)

Why would you need a crowdfunding for the button pusher? I estimate the cost to be around $5, not including that one hour of work needed to assemble the thing. The servo can be had for under $2, Arduino Nano clone for $3, one 1/4 inch screw for the camera, a few woodscrews all around and some scrap plywood.

Heck, if I remember to stop by the hardware store to buy that 1/4 inch screw, I have all I need to make it.

If you design the jig with some foresight, you can make some slots for adjustments so you can put different cameras.

[ez24]

Why would you need a crowdfunding for the button pusher?

Express shipping to Australia for two units.   

[Domagoj T]

I'm perfectly confident that Dave is capable of making the jig I described in fraction of the time and money it takes for express shipping.

[Blocco]

Overheating confirmed....

[EEVblog]

Overheating confirmed....

Wow. So that's two confirmed cases, and perhaps another one?
 

[Muttley Snickers]

It's a shame that Mathias didn't declare the particular device that had sustained damage due to the use of the Batteriser sleeves, Perhaps Batteroo need to organise a customer care hotline or something.

Is 1800YOUGOTBURNT currently being used by anybody else ?.

 

[Barny]

I wonder, how long will it take till someone of the happy US & A users is suing them their butt-eriser of?

[PeterL]

Finally definitive proof, direct from Batteroo.

Vivitar digital cameras 3 x AAA batteries.
Set up to take photos in forced flash mode. One pic every 10 seconds.
The claim is 172 pics without sleeve, 616 with.

edit to add: The flash does seem to stop working at 172 pics, but the camera looks like it is still taking pictures up to about 420.

They did a nice trick putting probes' siblings in the frame. Their PR team is running full throttle atm.