Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 2424773 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline djos

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 973
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8800 on: July 11, 2017, 06:53:57 am »
And don't forgot that D size NiHM cells have 10,000mAh capacity, and no loss by having unmatched cells in parallel
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/13542.pdf
Of course there is a case to be made for using standard AA's NiMH instead of D size, but you can buy those adapters for $1.26 on ebay delivered.

There's an easy video test for you then Dave.... Assuming there are enough suckers on Kickstarter to fund them.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31349
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8801 on: July 11, 2017, 06:56:23 am »
The curve is probably correct, but it lacking a vital information: The discharge current.

Alkalines has higher voltage than NiMH as is clearly shown by this curve:


It depends on the discharge current.

Exactly.
An Alkaline will have a higher discharge voltage than a NiMH most of the time, but only for low dischareg current, like 10mA in that graph.
At higher currents the lower and more consistent ESR of the NIMH cell wins out and will provide a higher voltage for most of the discharge.
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31349
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8802 on: July 11, 2017, 06:57:23 am »
And don't forgot that D size NiHM cells have 10,000mAh capacity, and no loss by having unmatched cells in parallel
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/13542.pdf
Of course there is a case to be made for using standard AA's NiMH instead of D size, but you can buy those adapters for $1.26 on ebay delivered.

There's an easy video test for you then Dave.... Assuming there are enough suckers on Kickstarter to fund them.

Any video will have to wait until the campaign starts, who knows what juicy claims they have in store!
 

Offline djos

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 973
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8803 on: July 11, 2017, 07:02:13 am »
And don't forgot that D size NiHM cells have 10,000mAh capacity, and no loss by having unmatched cells in parallel
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/13542.pdf
Of course there is a case to be made for using standard AA's NiMH instead of D size, but you can buy those adapters for $1.26 on ebay delivered.

There's an easy video test for you then Dave.... Assuming there are enough suckers on Kickstarter to fund them.

Any video will have to wait until the campaign starts, who knows what juicy claims they have in store!

Too true, although I think Kickstarter will boot them if the claims are on par with the IGG campaign.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline ebastler

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3512
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8804 on: July 11, 2017, 07:09:47 am »
Thanks, all, for the background on Alkaline capacity vs. discharge current. I had not realized that the capacity degrades that much at higher currents. (And I guess I assumed a lower current anyway, since I would typically not use battery-powered devices which give only 1h of run time.)

So, not a dishonest chart on the Eneloops, but a slightly selective one. And the chart conveniently forgets to mention the high discharge current.  ;)
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31349
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8805 on: July 11, 2017, 09:42:37 am »
Too true, although I think Kickstarter will boot them if the claims are on par with the IGG campaign.

Not going to happen. They have real hardware, they are a real company, they have reputable* founders, and a track record.
No rule against exaggerating your marketing claims, or claiming one legitimate usage case and then suggesting it will save the world.
Heck, even the original 800% campaign would have been 100% legitimate if they could have found a single device to back it up under certain circumstances.
 

Offline Davey_Jonez

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8806 on: July 11, 2017, 10:52:37 pm »
Yes, have seen those adapters, but they also boost with their Smart Shell, so brighter too. Of course off the shelf adapter will then run longer.
I have a few incandescent flashlights around, the ones that I have ( 2X D battery) are 700mA at 3V
 

Offline Davey_Jonez

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8807 on: July 11, 2017, 10:58:27 pm »
I just post when the mood strikes. Nothing to do with that place. I have worked for Startups and large companies.
Just pointing things out is all. As was said, it will benefit some products they currently cannot use rechargeable batteries, if they fit.

One thing that I am not familiar with is when rechargeable batteries are deep discharged, what kind of damage can occur? Do they lose charge cycle count? Charge capacity? Both?

 

Offline Davey_Jonez

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 11
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8808 on: July 11, 2017, 11:01:19 pm »
Have to say that you are incorrect.

I do remember how childish things got on here back then. Sure, Batteriser marketing was over the top with claims, but some 'people' on here were actually worse. IMHO.

Well..... back to work for me.
 

Offline djos

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 973
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8809 on: July 11, 2017, 11:53:16 pm »
Have to say that you are incorrect.

Can you use the quote function when replying to ppl please, we have no idea who's statement you believe to be incorrect due to a lack of context.
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline Hensingler

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 144
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8810 on: July 12, 2017, 01:52:47 am »
Have to say that you are incorrect.

Can you use the quote function when replying to ppl please, we have no idea who's statement you believe to be incorrect due to a lack of context.

Too complicated.

Well..... back to work for me.

Yep them burgers won't flip themselves.
 

Offline djos

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 973
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8811 on: July 12, 2017, 02:48:13 am »
Have to say that you are incorrect.

Can you use the quote function when replying to ppl please, we have no idea who's statement you believe to be incorrect due to a lack of context.

Too complicated.

If I can do it, anyone can...  :-DD
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 

Offline Halcyon

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 3951
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8812 on: July 12, 2017, 08:07:20 am »
So they need a "re-boost" because their first product was an utter failure? Roohparvar's run out of money for their cocktails did they?
 

Offline amspire

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3787
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8813 on: July 12, 2017, 08:39:36 am »
So they need a "re-boost" because their first product was an utter failure? Roohparvar's run out of money for their cocktails did they?
They probably need to make a new version of their chip that converts the voltage of 3 AA cells in series to 1.5V.  They may also want to increase power that may mean 4 outputs in parallel instead of two. That could cost a lot of money. If they can get that money in advance, it makes business sense.

Again, technically, it would be a product that could have some real usefulness. Some people will probably have a D cell powered device that works better at a full 1.4-1.5V. The problem has always been the dubious and exaggerated claims in the marketing.

 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31349
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8814 on: July 12, 2017, 12:27:23 pm »
Have to say that you are incorrect.

I do remember how childish things got on here back then. Sure, Batteriser marketing was over the top with claims, but some 'people' on here were actually worse. IMHO.

Well..... back to work for me.

Back to work at, very coincidentally, an SK Telecom affiliated company. The very same SK Telecom Innopartners venture capital company who just so happen to be investors in Batteroo.
http://sktainnopartners.com/welcome-to-batteroo/
Tell Bob I said Hi.
 
The following users thanked this post: frozenfrogz

Offline firewalker

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2368
  • Country: gr
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8815 on: July 12, 2017, 02:32:35 pm »
I think they failed to establish a deal with a big cheap electronics distributor for the batterizer and the want another go with this new product.

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline frozenfrogz

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 924
  • Country: de
  • Having fun with Arduino and Raspberry Pi
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8816 on: July 12, 2017, 02:36:17 pm »
very coincidentally

So apparently someone not going the extra mile to using a VPN from within the companies network I suppose? xD
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 

Offline free_electron

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7403
  • Country: us
    • SiliconValleyGarage
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8817 on: July 12, 2017, 03:13:56 pm »
OMG, so much  :palm: :palm: :palm:

They say in their marketing crap: "Did you know that rechargeable batteries are configured at a lower voltage than their alkaline counterparts?"
That sounds like it was written by someone who has no idea what he is talking about. "Configured at a lower voltage?" Idiots.
Also:

i have rechargeables configured at 3.3 or 4.2 volts >:)
Professional Electron Wrangler.
Any comments, or points of view expressed, are my own and not endorsed , induced or compensated by my employer(s).
 
The following users thanked this post: samgab

Offline FrankBuss

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 2319
  • Country: de
    • Frank Buss
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8818 on: July 12, 2017, 04:52:42 pm »
OMG, so much  :palm: :palm: :palm:

They say in their marketing crap: "Did you know that rechargeable batteries are configured at a lower voltage than their alkaline counterparts?"
That sounds like it was written by someone who has no idea what he is talking about. "Configured at a lower voltage?" Idiots.
Also:

i have rechargeables configured at 3.3 or 4.2 volts >:)

Damnit big battery corporation conspiracy! Tell me, where do I have to drill a hole to uncover the secret configuration potentiometer?!
So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
Electronics, hiking, retro-computing, electronic music etc.: https://www.youtube.com/c/FrankBussProgrammer
 
The following users thanked this post: samgab

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15388
  • Country: za
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8819 on: July 12, 2017, 05:27:39 pm »
Most incandescent torch bulbs are designed for rated life at around 1V3, as this is the average discharge voltage during operation. running them at 1V5 will definitely overdrive them, so it will be a toss up which will go out first, the batteries or the bulb itself. With Maglites that little expensive lamp is only rated for 100 hours or so anyway, and running it a lot brighter will drop life down to only a few hours.
 

Online Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4860
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8820 on: July 12, 2017, 11:52:30 pm »
OMG, so much  :palm: :palm: :palm:

They say in their marketing crap: "Did you know that rechargeable batteries are configured at a lower voltage than their alkaline counterparts?"
That sounds like it was written by someone who has no idea what he is talking about. "Configured at a lower voltage?" Idiots.
Also:

i have rechargeables configured at 3.3 or 4.2 volts >:)

Damnit big battery corporation conspiracy! Tell me, where do I have to drill a hole to uncover the secret configuration potentiometer?!

Trepanning is traditionally done about a inch or so above the bridge of the nose.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Daveyjonezanus

  • Newbie
  • !
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8821 on: July 13, 2017, 12:18:15 am »
That is absolutely incorrect.
They have three AA batteries in each D smart shell vs a D battery. If I just use Energizer specs that is 3 X 2300mAH for each Smart Shell vs 2500mAH for each Energizer D battery. So the run time with their Smart Shells has to be longer.  Probably around two times longer run time even with boost. Yes/No?
 

Offline Daveyjonezanus

  • Newbie
  • !
  • Posts: 2
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8822 on: July 13, 2017, 12:26:40 am »
More like do not really care.............
Figure it out, the curve that was edited to show the D rechargeable batteries vs their Smart Shells. Someone posted an edited version ( do not care to waste time locating it) and this person showed the batteries only will run past the time the Smart Shells stop. I believe that the Daveyjonez person said that was incorrect. The reason is simple, 2X 2500mAH D batteries vs 6X 2300mAH AA batteries. Yes, boost will bring them down faster than without, but they have a legitimate graph. Brighter and slightly longer run time.
Yes, there is an off the shelf 3AA to D adapter, but the light will not be brighter so ?

There is some usefulness to this. Instead of just constantly berating products how about trying to find uses for it? You know, something that may help some people. And not everyone is into tech, so think non-nerd too. And also not everyone has new flashlights (LED), some people keep things around until they are completely useless as in no longer able to function as intended, no more replacement parts etc.
 

Offline djos

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 973
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8823 on: July 13, 2017, 01:23:52 am »
That is absolutely incorrect.
They have three AA batteries in each D smart shell vs a D battery. If I just use Energizer specs that is 3 X 2300mAH for each Smart Shell vs 2500mAH for each Energizer D battery. So the run time with their Smart Shells has to be longer.  Probably around two times longer run time even with boost. Yes/No?

So you got banned for being a shill, created a new account with the word "anus" in it just to be a rebel (or something) and you still can't work out how to use the quote system!!! 

 :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm:
The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.

Visit my Tindie store for Tandy 1000 Adapters for EX, HX, SX, SL, TX & TL etc
 
The following users thanked this post: samgab

Offline amyk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6812
Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #8824 on: July 13, 2017, 01:49:06 am »
That is absolutely incorrect.
They have three AA batteries in each D smart shell vs a D battery. If I just use Energizer specs that is 3 X 2300mAH for each Smart Shell vs 2500mAH for each Energizer D battery. So the run time with their Smart Shells has to be longer.  Probably around two times longer run time even with boost. Yes/No?

So you got banned for being a shill, created a new account with the word "anus" in it just to be a rebel (or something) and you still can't work out how to use the quote system!!! 

 :palm: :palm: :palm: :palm:
He's like the Energizer bunnyBatteroo kangaroo... just keeps going and going and going.... :palm: :palm: :palm: |O
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf