Author Topic: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)  (Read 2347096 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7300 on: December 17, 2016, 06:05:56 am »
e) How pointless the whole exercise is as the Apple Wireless Keyboard lasts forever on a pair of batteries anyway. (I get around 9 months to a set of batteries with the keyboard left turned on 24x7.)
f) I checked a set of batteries immediately after they came out of an Apple Wireless Trackpad as 'dead' (the Trackpad actually turned off in use after weeks of low battery warning) a couple of weeks back. They had an off load, open circuit voltage of around 0.85V. It just happened that as they went dead I was playing around withcharacterizing an LT2400 ADC and an AD586 reference on a breadboard not three feet away so I hooked one up to amuse myself by watching the open circuit voltage creep up microvolt by microvolt as they recovered.

Yep, someone on here measured the dropout voltage of an Apple keyboard, and it was sub 1V per cell IIRC, so it's already very well designed to extract the maximum juice form the battery
It is the most useless example possible really. And they can't claim it's the ESR and current pulses etc in an apple keyboard. They have absolutely no leg to stand on.
 

Offline 6581

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7301 on: December 17, 2016, 06:14:17 am »
On my Apple wireless keyboard model A1314 when the system reports 11% battery charge, I leave the rechargeable NiMHs in because I know I'll get another 2-4 weeks of heavy daily use without any hiccups. Same goes for the Magic Trackpad.
 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7302 on: December 17, 2016, 06:20:01 am »
Anyway the accent is NSW, of a typical north coast type.

Probably found her on Fiverr, just like the twins:

 

Offline samgab

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7303 on: December 17, 2016, 06:29:57 am »
Oh man, all of those Fiverr "characters" are so cringeworthy it's painful. The "Ozzy bush guy" is the worst though.
 
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Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7304 on: December 17, 2016, 06:33:44 am »
You should record probes the monkey with a digital clock and create a time-lapse video with the key part (slowing down and dying) showcased in normal speed. His battery and the Batteriser can also be hooked up to multi-meters.

I plan to time-lapse all product tests with a clock in the frame.
No need to measure voltages. We only need data on product run times.

Can it be a GPS clock just for shits and giggles? At least Bob, Wayne and Co. can't claim that the clock is running slow/fast/is tampered with/runs on a Batteriser etc...

I like the "suggested videos" at the end of the 'twins' clip though... very accurate!  :-+
« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 06:40:31 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline IanB

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7305 on: December 17, 2016, 06:56:00 am »
The musings of a fool..... Just about every assertion in the Batteroo patent is wrong....

To have that in your patent application is embarrassing enough if you are just some hack "inventor" with little knowledge of batteries or electronic product design. But to be two major players in the electronics industry, CEO of tech companies in the power/charger industry no less, PhD's, university professor, hundreds of patents to your name, etc etc as they boast, it's beyond embarrassing  :palm:

The problem with the patent for them is that it's there forever now, they can't take it back, they can't change it like they do their website, and it shows exactly what they based their entire product and business model on.
Everything after the patent is them trying to scramble to save face with their idea and claims.

I think it is not embarrassing at all (for them). It has oft been noted that we live in a "post fact society".

There is no need for anything in a patent to be technically accurate, nor any need for the claimed invention to actually work.

If the purpose of the whole endeavor is to get a financial result, then all that is required is that the patent exists, and that it contains sufficiently smooth technobabble for non-technical investors to find it believable (which in a post fact society is not a high hurdle to jump over).

We must not view the claims as intending to have any technical merit at all; merely as artifacts in a plan to make money. As such, the people behind the plan are presumably quite happy with their work. They have generated a lot of publicity and have a lot of people talking about them.
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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7306 on: December 17, 2016, 07:21:44 am »
I think it is not embarrassing at all (for them). It has oft been noted that we live in a "post fact society".

Which I'm trying to change...
 
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Offline kalleboo

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7307 on: December 17, 2016, 08:39:16 am »
I like the "suggested videos" at the end of the 'twins' clip though... very accurate!  :-+
Seeing Big Clive's LEDs in there I'm assuming it's tuned to your own viewing habits, so I tried it in a private browsing window... It's even better there!
 

Offline Blocco

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7308 on: December 17, 2016, 08:58:49 am »
Anyway the accent is NSW, of a typical north coast type.

Probably found her on Fiverr, just like the twins:


Now they're claiming they could build a bridge to the moon out of used batteries :wtf:?

I wouldn't be surprised if Frankie Rhubarb already has a patent for thatl :-+


« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 09:03:31 am by Blocco »
 

Offline FrankBuss

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7309 on: December 17, 2016, 09:14:34 am »
New "Batteroo Boost" promo video on Youtube:


The  :palm: :palm: :palm: factor is high with this one.
Same old regurgitated marketing spiel about how the device renders useFUL battery gauges useLESS.
In the video the battery gauge shows 90%. This is similar to the 87% a backer reported for an older model of the Apple keyboard. Now compare this to this older video (quick, before they take it down :) )



100%, so they indeed faked this.

BTW, looks like they updated the batteroo.co webpage.
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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7310 on: December 17, 2016, 09:25:55 am »
BTW, looks like they updated the batteroo.co webpage.

It's now back to Batteroo.com

No more claims of only 20% of a battery used?
No more x8 800% etc?



And new close up render from website:
 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7311 on: December 17, 2016, 09:28:42 am »
And after all these years of development and finally releasing it, the best showcase demos they have are the Apple keyboard, and the flashlight

 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7312 on: December 17, 2016, 09:30:11 am »
Out mate Frankie is now claiming 1.1V to 1.3V dropout voltage.
A far cry from his 1.35V to 1.4V in the patent

 

Offline janekm

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7313 on: December 17, 2016, 09:31:43 am »


100%, so they indeed faked this.

BTW, looks like they updated the batteroo.co webpage.

Not necessarily faked... it's entirely plausible that the earlier prototype had a higher output voltage while the final one has a lower output voltage (which would be more efficient, especially if the boost converter is designed to operate in bypass until the battery voltage drops too low). 
 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7314 on: December 17, 2016, 09:34:15 am »
And really sprouting those manipulated thrown away battery figures:

 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7315 on: December 17, 2016, 09:36:47 am »
They have now clearly moved into a huge phase and the new website is a big push.
Leave behind all the IGG legacy, no more 80% battery capacity unused claims front and center, now buried away and based mostly on those manipulated recycled figures.
These guys are slick, and looks like they are now going to push this turd hard for the Walmart/Kmart home run.
 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7316 on: December 17, 2016, 09:43:13 am »
Where did this guy come from?
He's now an adviser.
 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7317 on: December 17, 2016, 09:44:45 am »
Bingo, they have a new investor sucker:

 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7318 on: December 17, 2016, 09:48:36 am »
From Forte Ventures website:
http://www.forteventures.com/investments

 

Offline Blocco

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7319 on: December 17, 2016, 10:00:52 am »
Where did this guy come from?
He's now an adviser.

 

Offline PeterL

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7320 on: December 17, 2016, 10:34:59 am »
New "Batteroo Boost" promo video on Youtube:


The  :palm: :palm: :palm: factor is high with this one.
Same old regurgitated marketing spiel about how the device renders useFUL battery gauges useLESS.
Seems to me that they are provoking Apple here to come into action:
- Apple in the title,
- Apple logo and products prominently in view,
- subliminal message: "Apple products have bad battery management"

And a public reaction from Apple would be the best publicity for their sleeves they could ever hope for, they need to make the headlines again.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7321 on: December 17, 2016, 10:39:56 am »
Initial tests should probably be done without any soldering or tampering with the Batteriser, else Batteroo will just claim that heat transfer, or whatever, changed its characteristics and the test thereby is invalid.

The first tests should be complete discharge curves under different loads. Constant resistance, constant current, constant power. Two or three of each.

This can be done without any soldering.

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7322 on: December 17, 2016, 10:44:37 am »
Yeah, there's a lot to be said for the "K.I.S.S" philosophy. No need for all these ridiculous complex circuits to test if a device that is meant to extend battery life actually extends battery life.

Yep. The public won't care or understand. The first video should be a simple timelapse of identical devices side by side. Starting with probes the monkey.

Unfortunately we only have AAA at the moment so that will make it much harder to find gadgets to text.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7323 on: December 17, 2016, 11:21:39 am »
A question:

How much different would we expect the circuitry to be between a AA and AAA sleeve?
 

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Re: EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)
« Reply #7324 on: December 17, 2016, 11:42:21 am »
I think that video is actively misleading and deceptive to the point of breaking most advertising regs, as it has a strong implication that the capacity figure with Batterizer is meaningful.

Of course it opens them up to a very simple counter-demo, by repeating the exact same procedure and then seeing how long it continues to run for.

Much as I hate Apple and hate lawsuit nonsense, I really hope Apple go after them.
 
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