EEVblog #758 - Pebble Time Smartwatch Unboxing & Review

[adcurtin]

It doesn't have a modem. The only radio it has is Bluetooth.

Bluetooth which hooks up to your phone, which does have a modem… Yes, the pebble will sync time over from your phone. Daylight savings and all that too. (so the accuracy of the timekeeping in the pebble is less of a concern unless you're using it standalone).


As for the power connector, there is no rectifier for that. The two gold pins are not power and ground, rather they are both +5v. (one of those two pins on the watch is for communication with smartstraps, and it obviously 5v tolerant). The ground is actually connected through the magnets. check out the last bullet point in step 10 of the ifixit teardown, it shows the spring contact on the board that connects ground to the magnets. The connector is reversible.

[rs20]

As for the power connector, there is no rectifier for that. The two gold pins are not power and ground, rather they are both +5v. (one of those two pins on the watch is for communication with smartstraps, and it obviously 5v tolerant). The ground is actually connected through the magnets. check out the last bullet point in step 10 of the ifixit teardown, it shows the spring contact on the board that connects ground to the magnets. The connector is reversible.

So from a corrosion-resistance point of view, the weak link is the coating of the magnets?

[SeanB]

Yes, exactly like the Apple Maglock power connector. The coating is likely nickel ( the main ingredient in stainless steel) so the connection will work till you find a pinhole in the coat which will turn the supermagnet material under it to a powder of oxides in a matter of weeks.

[adcurtin]

Yes, exactly like the Apple Maglock power connector. The coating is likely nickel ( the main ingredient in stainless steel) so the connection will work till you find a pinhole in the coat which will turn the supermagnet material under it to a powder of oxides in a matter of weeks.

Neither of Apple's magnetic charging reply on the magnet coating as a contact.

Check out the pinout for Magsafe. Magsafe 2 is the exact same pinout. The magsafe connector even has a rubbery coating over the magnets when new, but that wears off over time (the magnet coating hasn't for me yet)

The Apple Watch uses inductive charging, no contacts at all.

I've have the original pebble for a while, the magnet coating hasn't worn yet (the black coloring wears off quickly, the magnet coating does not). Not something I'd be worried about on the Time.

So from a corrosion-resistance point of view, the weak link is the coating of the magnets?

Yup.

[neotesla]

I guess Consumerism has no limits 

I think it does, the limits of this planet. The way things are going we'll hit those limits in a couple of generations. Useless gadgets* like smartwatches will only get us faster there.

*Given that this smartwatch needs to be paired up with a smartphone, the likelihood is your every move is being logged on some guv'ment/corporate server somewhere, in which case you are the gadget of the smartwatch, not the other way around.

[rs20]

*Given that this smartwatch needs to be paired up with a smartphone, the likelihood is your every move is being logged on some guv'ment/corporate server somewhere, in which case you are the gadget of the smartwatch, not the other way around.

And how exactly does the addition of the smartwatch to the person carrying a smartphone assist the government?

[codeboy2k]

*Given that this smartwatch needs to be paired up with a smartphone, the likelihood is your every move is being logged on some guv'ment/corporate server somewhere, in which case you are the gadget of the smartwatch, not the other way around.

And how exactly does the addition of the smartwatch to the person carrying a smartphone assist the government?

clearly in taxes, by selling more tinfoil   

[apis]

And how exactly does the addition of the smartwatch to the person carrying a smartphone assist the government?

Well, the smartwatch addition does nothing but they are evidently logging the position aka movement of everyone with a cellphone, and I wouldn't be surprised if there is a backdoor to remotely and silently activate the microphone. Someone told me they need to install spyware for that first, but I'm not convinced, at least not that they would need physical access to do that. Anyway, the big problem is that they have begun collecting data on everyone and saving it for future use (since someone realized that hard drives are now cheap enough), after all anyone is a potential terrorist/criminal in the future. Sorry, know I this is off topic!

[kcozens]

Wow. A product that you can't use unless you have an iPhone or an Android smartphone? The watch would be useless to me as I don't own a smartphone and have no plans to ever own one. You are right that they should have provided a better default watch face. Better still would have been provide two different ones out of the box that you can choose between without having to download them to the watch. Still, an interesting device for those who feel they can find a use for it.

[rs20]

Wow. A product that you can't use unless you have an iPhone or an Android smartphone? The watch would be useless to me as I don't own a smartphone and have no plans to ever own one. You are right that they should have provided a better default watch face. Better still would have been provide two different ones out of the box that you can choose between without having to download them to the watch. Still, an interesting device for those who feel they can find a use for it.

I just read about some boats for sale. Wow. A product that you can't use unless you live near a lake or an ocean? That boat would be useless to me as I live inland, and have no plans to ever move to the coast. Still, an interesting idea for those who feel they live near the ocean I suppose.

[McBryce]

I just read about some boats for sale. Wow. A product that you can't use unless you live near a lake or an ocean? That boat would be useless to me as I live inland, and have no plans to ever move to the coast. Still, an interesting idea for those who feel they live near the ocean I suppose.

  Thanks! You've just solved that issue I had with my new boat! So that loud scratching sound seems to be due to lack of water. Doh! anyone want to buy a relatively new but badly scratched boat?

McBryce.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Wow. A product that you can't use unless you have an iPhone or an Android smartphone? The watch would be useless to me as I don't own a smartphone and have no plans to ever own one. You are right that they should have provided a better default watch face. Better still would have been provide two different ones out of the box that you can choose between without having to download them to the watch. Still, an interesting device for those who feel they can find a use for it.

I just read about some boats for sale. Wow. A product that you can't use unless you live near a lake or an ocean? That boat would be useless to me as I live inland, and have no plans to ever move to the coast. Still, an interesting idea for those who feel they live near the ocean I suppose.

I would concede your point if it was self-explanatory that a Pebble Time Smartwatch required a smartphone, it's not for me and obviously not for Dave either. None of the marketing seems to suggest it. And neither the title nor the description of the Kickstarter mentioned a smartphone requirement.

[rs20]

I would concede your point if it was self-explanatory that a Pebble Time Smartwatch required a smartphone, it's not for me and obviously not for Dave either. None of the marketing seems to suggest it. And neither the title nor the description of the Kickstarter mentioned a smartphone requirement.

I was more criticizing an inane message than defending smartwatches; and certainly not defending the Pebble in particular. However, I think it's fairly obvious (at least to EEs) that a smartwatch needs a tethered phone to be even remotely smart:
- 2G/3G/4G: Too much battery drain
- Wi-Fi: Not ubiquitous enough
- Bluetooth tether to smartphone: Only option left.

And fussing about how the watch behaves before you get that tether up and running is a bit picky, since even the best case scenario is that it'd be an awful conventional watch with short battery life. Heck, forcing clueless users to tether probably prevents those clueless people from getting confused and failing to end up with a smartwatch. Arguably getting clueless people a working smartwatch is more important that allowing a small minority of hackers the ability to read the time before a phone is tethered.

I have no particular opinion whether they were deceptive on their Kickstarter page. But I think Dave knew perfectly well that a phone tether is required for the watch to be smart in any reasonable sense of the word; he was just saying it should fall back to being a watch in the absence of that tether. As above, I can see arguments either way.

It's interesting/obvious to note that the Google Wear --> Android (and presumably iWatch --> iPhone) tethering process is much more seamless (no new username/password pairs required in particular); but obviously Google and Apple have an advantage being on both sides of the exchange there. Not sure if Pebble could have used OAuth to make their process a bit more seamless? Not sure.

[EEVblog]

I have no particular opinion whether they were deceptive on their Kickstarter page. But I think Dave knew perfectly well that a phone tether is required for the watch to be smart in any reasonable sense of the word;

I'll repeat ad nauseam, I was simply disappointed it didn't do anything at all out of the box.
I don't see why so many people made such a huge deal over this 
It was personally what I expected, what's so wrong with that?
The fanboy-ism with smartwatches has only been surpassed by the shear hatred of the waterproof fanboys who thought me not knowing it actually meant a true 30m pressure (as opposed to what most of the watch industry has used for decades) was the greatest crime against humanity 

It's all been rather hilarious watching them foam at the mouth 

he was just saying it should fall back to being a watch in the absence of that tether.

I did not say that. But the watch does indeed do that. It works fine as a watch without a phone once you set it up.

[EEVblog]

I would concede your point if it was self-explanatory that a Pebble Time Smartwatch required a smartphone, it's not for me and obviously not for Dave either.

I knew very well it needed to be tethered to a phone to do most of the useful stuff. Do I have a real need for it? No, I just wanted to check it out and do a video on it and teardown.

[TheAmmoniacal]

I knew very well it needed to be tethered to a phone to do most of the useful stuff. Do I have a real need for it? No, I just wanted to check it out and do a video on it and teardown.

To do most of the useful stuff, yes - but to do anything at all? If I remember correctly you couldn't get past the "getpebble.com/app" screen without actually getting the app. I would be surprised if the watch had anything more than just a bootloader when they shipped it.

[adcurtin]

The fanboy-ism with smartwatches has only been surpassed by the shear hatred of the waterproof fanboys who thought me not knowing it actually meant a true 30m pressure (as opposed to what most of the watch industry has used for decades) was the greatest crime against humanity 

not hatred, not fanboyism. just technical and have a dislike for misinformation. The watch industry standard was updated 5 years ago. That's like saying USB is only 480Mbps, and saying someone who says that it does up to 5Gbps (or is it 10 now?) is opposing the the usb standard that has been in use for decades. (no, it's not a perfect example).

The new standard revises the old one, and the old one has been withdrawn: http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=7100

[EEVblog]

To do most of the useful stuff, yes - but to do anything at all? If I remember correctly you couldn't get past the "getpebble.com/app" screen without actually getting the app. I would be surprised if the watch had anything more than just a bootloader when they shipped it.

Correct, which is why I was a bit peeved it didn't do anything, I just wanted to play with it out of the box. Yet people thought that was the most ridiculous idea ever 

[EEVblog]

not hatred, not fanboyism. just technical and have a dislike for misinformation. The watch industry standard was updated 5 years ago.

Well forgive me for not keeping up to date with watch resistance standards after having known what "30m water resistance" means for many decades, and also having worked in the underwater industry for more than decade pre-2010. Silly me, I should have looked up the latest standard (which I'd have to buy to be absolutely sure) and which is not even updated on wikipedia should I have casual glanced for some basic confirmation.
And silly me for only looking on the Pebble watch website instead of trawling some thread on Reddit which is about the only place the clarification is mentioned.
If Pebble themselves can't even be bothered to clarify it on their website, then how is any reviewer expected to?
Yeah, I'm so dumb 

It's ridiculous the hounding I got over this. It was perfectly reasonable for any person to think "30m water resistance" meant what the old standard and the industry has always said, and what's mentioned on wikipedia and countless other places. Perhaps a clueless reviewer would have taken Pebble's "Water resistant to 30 meters"claim as literally true, but I actually had a clue that this has been a massive industry misinterpretation for decades, and even the big watch makers "Water resistant to 30 meters" watches aren't designed to go to 30m pressure.
So ultimately I was wrong, so what, no need to get your knickers in a knot over it.

It most certainly is fanboyism and hatred, as I virtually never get this sort of response when I get other technical things wrong in my videos.

[rs20]

Correct, which is why I was a bit peeved it didn't do anything, I just wanted to play with it out of the box. Yet people thought that was the most ridiculous idea ever 

I wouldn't say it's a ridiculous idea at all, and I can understand the frustration. I, for one, enjoyed the video enormously. But fwiw, I think it might be good user design to prioritize {getting dumb users to actually tether their smartwatch} over {giving video blogger (singular) an instantaneous out-of-box experience} -- I mean, imagine handing a phone and an out-of-box Pebble watch displaying just the time to <insert-technically-non-savvy-family-member-here>. That wouldn't end well, having the watch stubbornly demand tethering is the only way that Donaldbert is going to tether that phone*. I just find the presumption (not necessarily expressed by you, Dave) that this out-of-box experience is an oversight (or due to laziness) a bit odd; I can easily see it being a very deliberate and valid design decision. At the same time, it is rather Appleish and anti-hacker, and I would find it frustrating too if I was vlogging.

The fact that the Pebble Steel has a dedicated, separate app is certainly lazy and crazy, as is the need for a Pebble login+password.

* Disclaimer: success with stubborn watch not guaranteed.

[EEVblog]

I just find the presumption (not necessarily expressed by you, Dave) that this out-of-box experience is an oversight (or due to laziness) a bit odd; I can easily see it being a very deliberate and valid design decision. At the same time, it is rather Appleish and anti-hacker, and I would find it frustrating too if I was vlogging.

The thing is that I had no clue what to expect when opening the box. This was the first smart watch I've ever used. It's not like I sat down and thought about what I expected from this thing before opening, I just opened it and that was my natural response. Something in me expected it to do something, anything, a demo maybe, I don't know.
Perhaps part of it was a desire to actually show it doing something on camera before I had to go an setup and tether the whole thing. From a reviewer point of view that's kinda frustrating.
Of course I understand if they did it deliberately, doesn't mean I have to like it, or as many fanboys want me to think "that's just the way smartwatches are". I call BS on that notion.

[adcurtin]

So ultimately I was wrong, so what, no need to get your knickers in a knot over it.

It most certainly is fanboyism and hatred, as I virtually never get this sort of response when I get other technical things wrong in my videos.

I posted a clarifying article from pebble's website (albeit for the old pebble), said I was disappointed in your (rightful) misunderstanding of the rating and you told me I was wrong. Yes, I understand you have lots of experience, but if you can't admit you made a mistake, experience isn't worth salt. I made one other post with more sources and clarifying details. I never called you dumb, I never even directly called you wrong. The harshest words I used were misunderstanding and disappointed. If that's hatred and fanboyism, I've got nothing more to say.

[EEVblog]

I posted a clarifying article from pebble's website (albeit for the old pebble), said I was disappointed in your (rightful) misunderstanding of the rating and you told me I was wrong. Yes, I understand you have lots of experience, but if you can't admit you made a mistake, experience isn't worth salt.

I always admit when I'm wrong and made a mistake. Perhaps you are new here? I've corrected and clarified hundreds of my videos.
BTW, this wasn't a mistake, it was as you said, a rightful misunderstanding based on past and current experience to an issue that is rife in the industry, i.e. companies claiming true 3atm pressure when using the words "30m water resistance". It's so common in the industry is almost a running joke.

I made one other post with more sources and clarifying details. I never called you dumb, I never even directly called you wrong. The harshest words I used were misunderstanding and disappointed. If that's hatred and fanboyism, I've got nothing more to say.

I'm not directing any comments to you personally, it's the whole general vibe of the response, the messages, emails and comments etc I got to this video.

[adcurtin]

Ah, sorry. I didn't see anything else here, but this is probably the most civil place to talk about your videos (and it's not private).
Bleeding edge tech people can be quite harsh. Pebble has had a lot of haters, especially around how they handled some stuff in the Kickstarters, so that might make the fans more vocal and more dickish than normal too (not trying to defend anyone though).

[miguelvp]

It really doesn't matter does it?

I'm glad he actually took it for a torture test because even if 30m is not what it used to be, it's still rated for 3 atmospheres.

In any event wilfred already covered that back on page 3 so it's old news and the watch managed to handle at least a 50m rating, well maybe not because he wasn't really swimming hard enough to put 5 atm on the watch. Still it was pretty cool to see the thing go through all those obstacles.