Author Topic: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown  (Read 22818 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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Offline Muxr

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2015, 07:01:58 am »
Nice one Dave! I really liked the internal design of this scope. Would like to see the related mini review of the scope. I guess that vid is uploading?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2015, 07:15:03 am »
Nice one Dave! I really liked the internal design of this scope. Would like to see the related mini review of the scope. I guess that vid is uploading?

Still editing.
 

Offline f4eru

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #3 on: September 02, 2015, 07:51:40 am »
Hello,

Concerning the link between both BNC footprints, i think I know what's happening :

the two footprints marked 11J1 & 11J4 are for U.FL or similar connector sockets.

Either a coax link was foreseen, and has been cost optimized to a SMD placed custom link, or there was to be two connectors comming from the ADC boars, one for each BNC, and at a late stage in the design they decided to use the circuitry inbetween that was only foreseen for the second connector, and they changed to that arrangement...

Either way, the custom link thing seems to be properly dimensionned as a 50 ohm transmission line, so it's more than just a quick bodge.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 07:53:47 am by f4eru »
 

Offline teerosheyal

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #4 on: September 02, 2015, 08:01:04 am »
The area of the connectors that you didn't knew what the heck they were doing? they made an optional 2 BNC connectors, 2 U.FL or W.FL connectors (almost the same footprint) for microcoax, and basically jumpered the 2 channels using a Costume-made bar covered with tin (for solderability) from the two center pins (signal) of the cables.
This is what you call an over-engineered Japanese bodge-wire ;)
 

Offline daqq

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #5 on: September 02, 2015, 08:42:55 am »
Thanks for the video Dave.

Funny, I just bought a waveJet 314 and was looking to do a teardown. Now I might do a comparative teardown  :)
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Offline salviador

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #6 on: September 02, 2015, 09:50:51 am »
Lecroy It has little memory than rigol and the cost is too high !
 

Offline bktemp

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #7 on: September 02, 2015, 10:02:57 am »
How old is this scope?
It looks like the ADC is obsolete and every modern FPGA supports at least DDR3 SDRAMs. I was really surprised to see SDRAMs as acquisition memory.
 

Offline daqq

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #8 on: September 02, 2015, 10:06:32 am »
Quote
How old is this scope?
It looks like the ADC is obsolete and every modern FPGA supports at least DDR3 SDRAMs. I was really surprised to see SDRAMs as acquisition memory.
The waveJet (354 included) series was available in 2007.

http://www.testoon.com/fichiers_guide/EN/LeCroy_2007_2008_Catalog_en.pdf
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Offline BravoV

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2015, 10:09:43 am »
Hmmm .....  :popcorn:


Offline AlfBaz

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2015, 11:11:19 am »
They seem to make a lot of use of 45 degree (and some, arbitrary) angle component placements. Not something you see a lot of these days.

As for giving Iwatsu all the design cred, I'm not to sure. Ive pulled apart a lot of old real lecroys and they all make use of those shielding bars between front end inputs. In fact, just from the look of the general circuit topology, the design is very reminiscent of most 9384 series lecroy motherboards
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #11 on: September 02, 2015, 11:17:52 am »
The music at the end during reassembly for some reason reminded me of this song:   O0

http://youtu.be/8inB7FAPHc4

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2015, 11:19:37 am »
How old is this scope?
It looks like the ADC is obsolete and every modern FPGA supports at least DDR3 SDRAMs. I was really surprised to see SDRAMs as acquisition memory.

The scope itself is only a year old, but the design likely dates back several product generations.
 

Online Wuerstchenhund

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2015, 01:52:00 pm »
How old is this scope?
It looks like the ADC is obsolete and every modern FPGA supports at least DDR3 SDRAMs. I was really surprised to see SDRAMs as acquisition memory.

The scope itself is only a year old, but the design likely dates back several product generations.

The WaveJet 300 Series is pretty old, it was introduced by LeCroy at the end of 2006.

There actually are three iterations of this scope: the original WaveJet 300 (white case, 2006-2008), the WaveJet 300A (black case, made from 2008 to 2014), and the "new" WaveJet 300T shown in the video which came out last year and is a essentially 300A with touchscreen.

They seem to make a lot of use of 45 degree (and some, arbitrary) angle component placements. Not something you see a lot of these days.

As for giving Iwatsu all the design cred, I'm not to sure. Ive pulled apart a lot of old real lecroys and they all make use of those shielding bars between front end inputs. In fact, just from the look of the general circuit topology, the design is very reminiscent of most 9384 series lecroy motherboards

The similarity with older LeCroy scopes is no surprise since the WaveJet is another result of LeCroy's cooperation with Iwatsu which started the '90s when LeCroy rebadged Iwatsu analog scopes. Later when LeCroy was looking for a manufacturer for its new WaveRunner LT lower high-end scopes they increased the cooperation which included quite a bit of knowledge transfer about hardware design to Iwatsu, although most of the scope was designed by LeCroy. The WaveRunner LT was a success and so the cooperation continued for the WaveRunner2 LT (lower high-end) and the WavePro 900 (upper high-end), again mostly LeCroy designs. Sales were also divided, with Iwatsu selling the scopes under their name in Japan, and LeCroy selling them under their label on the rest of the world.

At the same time (end of the '90s), LeCroy also bought in a small Iwatsu-designed portable entry-level DSO with b/w LCD and resold it under the LeCroy brand as LiteRunner LP. However, being made in Japan it was pretty expensive, especially for its price segment, and it didn't sell very well. In the end it was cancelled around 2001/2002 if I remember right.

Three years on LeCroy again wanted to gain a foothold in the entry level, and so again teamed up with Iwatsu to come up with a new entry level scope, which was the WaveJet 300. However, like with the LiteRunner LP, LeCroy wanted to buy the scope ready to sell, so again this was a Iwatsu design (where they used the know-how they learned from LeCroy). When the WaveJet came out it had good specs, but as with the LiteRunner the problem was that manufacturing in Japan made the scope pretty expensive, and although the Dollar/Yen ratio isn't as bad as it used to be the problem with the WaveJet's price remained. For the Iwatsu-labeled counterpart this didn't matter much as Iwatsu was mostly aiming for the Japanese market only anyways.

The price was the main reason why LeCroy later teamed up with Siglent for a new entry level scope that was to be cheaper than the WaveJet, but the first models (sold as WaveAce 100/200) were awful, plagued by ridiculous firmware problems that Siglent couldn't fix in a timely manner, so the WaveJet remained. The successors WaveAce 1000/2000 were better, but not by much, which is why the WaveJet remained on offer, and subsequently even got a facelift (WJ300T) which includes a touchscreen and a few other improvements (a similar thing Keysight did with the DSOX30000T).

Today it's specs are outdated, but the WaveJet is still a very good and also very reliable scope, even though the UI is typical Iwatsu which means it's not the most intuitive or logical, and a bit old-fashioned.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 02:01:51 pm by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline mux

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2015, 02:03:32 pm »
I already commented this on Youtube but I suspect it will kind of be snowed under but...

Why in the world would they use TO-220 solder pin-mount heatsinks glued to those Altera FPGAs? That seems very odd. There are off-the-shelf little heatsinks for literally any package, available by the thousands. Why would they substitute a proper heatsink with what seems like either an afterthought or an emergency bodge?
 

Offline dr.diesel

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2015, 02:06:03 pm »
Why would they substitute a proper heatsink with what seems like either an afterthought or an emergency bodge?

If they just need to take the edge off, perhaps BOM reuse?

Offline jancumps

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2015, 02:42:04 pm »
The music at the end during reassembly for some reason reminded me of this song:   O0

http://youtu.be/8inB7FAPHc4

Hey, I have that 12".
Shows my  age :)

 

Offline Muxr

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2015, 03:13:49 pm »
I already commented this on Youtube but I suspect it will kind of be snowed under but...

Why in the world would they use TO-220 solder pin-mount heatsinks glued to those Altera FPGAs? That seems very odd. There are off-the-shelf little heatsinks for literally any package, available by the thousands. Why would they substitute a proper heatsink with what seems like either an afterthought or an emergency bodge?
Probably an afterthought. They later realized there was not enough airflow on that side of the board and it needed a slight improvement in cooling.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2015, 04:04:46 pm »
The music at the end during reassembly for some reason reminded me of this song:   O0

http://youtu.be/8inB7FAPHc4
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Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2015, 04:12:24 pm »
by the way , iwatsu have been in bed with 'others' too.

this may come as a shock :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Iwatsu-V-810-Dual-Trace-Amplifier-Oscilloscope-Plug-In-Module-/151170338951?hash=item2332745087

even this one :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Unlabled-Current-Probe-with-Iwatsu-4126-CP-512-Termination-Switch-Used-/400631625370?hash=item5d4781769a

Hioki is another one of these companies that 'gets into bed' with others .... look at their current probes ...
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Offline f1rmb

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2015, 04:44:00 pm »


The music at the end during reassembly for some reason reminded me of this song:   O0

http://youtu.be/8inB7FAPHc4
Save Ferris !

Anyone? Anyone?
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2015, 04:59:18 pm »

At the same time (end of the '90s), LeCroy also bought in a small Iwatsu-designed portable entry-level DSO with b/w LCD and resold it under the LeCroy brand as LiteRunner LP. However, being made in Japan it was pretty expensive, especially for its price segment, and it didn't sell very well.
It was Literunner LP142.
http://teledynelecroy.com/pressreleases/document.aspx?news_id=219&capid=107&mid=554
There is a manual available.
http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/manuals/lp142section1.pdf

Quote
In the end it was cancelled around 2001/2002 if I remember right.
Probably some units were manufactured and sold.

They were sold also as Iwatsu Bringo.
http://www.iti.iwatsu.co.jp/en/products/ds/bringo/bringo2_top_e.html
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/the-most-weird-and-funny-dso-metrix-mtx3000/msg422131/#msg422131
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 05:06:47 pm by Hydrawerk »
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #22 on: September 02, 2015, 05:00:22 pm »
More pictures. They were found on Ebay.
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: EEVblog #790 - Lecroy Wavejet 354 Touch Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #24 on: September 02, 2015, 06:35:22 pm »
In May 2000 it was a nice scope with quite long 100kpoints memory.
TDS2000 series with a color LCD was released later in 2002. https://web.archive.org/web/20020807225311fw_/http://www.tek.com/Measurement/cgi-bin/framed.pl?Document=/Measurement/scopes/index/prodindex_realtime.html&FrameSet=oscilloscopes
« Last Edit: September 02, 2015, 06:42:19 pm by Hydrawerk »
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