It exploits the fact that Rigol doesn't have a product to fill the gap between the USD 400 DS1000Z and the USD 840 DS2000A. Not much to see other than that.200MHz at $650 is "nothing to see"?
200MHz at $650 is "nothing to see"?
Plus ... if people can hack/unlock the signal generator with then it's a killer device. They'll sell truckloads of them.
200MHz at $650 is "nothing to see"?
The -3 dB bandwidth of the $400 DS1000Z (same total sample rate as the new Siglent) is about 170-180 MHz, so no.
Plus ... if people can hack/unlock the signal generator with then it's a killer device. They'll sell truckloads of them.Noone has done much software hacking on Siglents, so that is highly speculative
In a world first Dave takes an initial first impressions look at the new Siglent 1000X Series 200MHz entry level oscilloscope. What do you get for US$499?
How does it compare to the Rigol DS2000 Series?
In stock. http://www.siglent.eu/sds1102x-s.html (http://www.siglent.eu/sds1102x-s.html)
...
Still...only 2 channels and 50% more expensive than a DS1054Z. I'm not very tempted. You'd have to really really need that little bit of extra bandwidth.
A little bit of extra bandwidth, without getting a higher sample rate.The math works out about the same. It has double the bandwidth but half the channels of the DS1054Z.
In a world first Dave takes an initial first impressions look at the new Siglent 1000X Series 200MHz entry level oscilloscope. What do you get for US$499?Dave, the 200 MHz version is US$659
From rf-loop, the SDS1202X measured -3.0 dB BW is ~275 MHz:A little bit of extra bandwidth, without getting a higher sample rate.The math works out about the same. It has double the bandwidth but half the channels of the DS1054Z.
eg.
DS1054Z has 1GHz sample rate shared between 4 channels - 2.5 samples per wave at 100Mhz.
This one has 1GHz sample rate shared between 2 channels - 2.5 samples per wave at 200MHz.
With only one channel switched on the DS1040Z has a higher ratio of samples per wave, yes, but this one kept going up to 300MHz.
A little bit of extra bandwidth, without getting a higher sample rate. I don't think there are lots of things you can do with the SDS1000X, that you can't do with the DS1054Z (maybe I'm biased).
both scopes don't give each other much, and which one is the better buy really depends on what you require.For most people I'd say 4 channels trumps 200Mhz.
Plus the level of maturity of the SDS1000X firmware is still unknown.I wouldn't rush to buy one. Dave managed to find a some "turn it off and on again" bugs just in the making of this video...
both scopes don't give each other much, and which one is the better buy really depends on what you require.For most people I'd say 4 channels trumps 200Mhz.
QuotePlus the level of maturity of the SDS1000X firmware is still unknown.I wouldn't rush to buy one. Dave managed to find a some "turn it off and on again" bugs just in the making of this video...
The -3 dB bandwidth of the $400 DS1000Z (same total sample rate as the new Siglent) is about 170-180 MHz, so no.I heard the measured bandwidth was about 135Mhz (on EEVBLOG form)
Plus ... if people can hack/unlock the signal generator with then it's a killer device. They'll sell truckloads of them.
Still...only 2 channels and 50% more expensive than a DS1054Z. I'm not very tempted. You'd have to really really need that little bit of extra bandwidth.
Dave managed to find a some "turn it off and on again" bugs just in the making of this video...
The whole SDS1000X series has no option for a logic analyzer, I have no idea why they put the cutout for it on the front panel.Neither did the Siglent SDS2000 series when it was first released, the demo models sent to dealers was an early HW version and later versions DO all have an MSO port and MSO capability as a free trial option until it is puchased and permanently enabled.
The 1 GSa/s and 14 Mpts does not impress me. Furthermore, the hack-ability of the Siglent gear is in question, in theory they can be hacked but no one has actually managed to do it yet.With new beta FW for the SDS2000 series there will be additional memory depth available as an option and will Siglent enable an additional memory depth option for the SDS1000X series too? :-//
The whole SDS1000X series has no option for a logic analyzer, I have no idea why they put the cutout for it on the front panel.
Do you think it is clever to pay new injection mold costs just after they do MSO1000X. or do separate front and/or back panel for every model. Yes they do if you pay it.
Have you ever asked how much it take money (total costs including all) when you do whole process for new mold. There is one shot price and then there is of course price for every single the front panel they do. If you have ever designed any production you know that there need really heavy reason for do new mold.
With new beta FW for the SDS2000 series there will be additional memory depth available as an option and will Siglent enable an additional memory depth option for the SDS1000X series too? :-//
It wouldn't surprise me at all if they did.
500uV/ on rigol 2000 is BULLSHIT. Did i say it loud enough?
B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T
Do not even think of it as an advantage over other scopes. It is a x2 digital zoom off of 1mV/ . Nothing else happens when you set the switch to 500uS/, no any changes in the front end chain, zero, i have measured and can prove it. The bastards even did not bother to interpolate as they zoom in. They just stretch the display vertically. that is it. :--
I do not know about Siglent.
With new beta FW for the SDS2000 series there will be additional memory depth available as an option and will Siglent enable an additional memory depth option for the SDS1000X series too? :-//
It wouldn't surprise me at all if they did.
I don't think we'll see that on the SDS1000X. On the SDS2000 it seems they replaced the original firmware (v1) which was a bug fest they were incapable of fixing with a port of the firmware for their new SDS1000X scopes (v2), and in the process were probably able to free up some memory which they can now offer as another option (which quite frankly should have been a free upgrade for all SDS2000, considering how long their users had to live with the shitty firmware!). It's certainly not something they designed into the scope from the start. The SDS1000X was designed with the firmware it runs on, so there won't be any similar memory savings.
I guess we'll see when the teardowns arrive, which should be able to establish how much memory there is in these things.
both scopes don't give each other much, and which one is the better buy really depends on what you require.For most people I'd say 4 channels trumps 200Mhz.
Not necessarily. There are many tasks that don't require more than two channels, and where the extra bandwidth can be a real advantage.QuotePlus the level of maturity of the SDS1000X firmware is still unknown.I wouldn't rush to buy one. Dave managed to find a some "turn it off and on again" bugs just in the making of this video...
Indeed, and Siglent isn't exactly known for bring products to market with mature firmware (i.e. the SDS2000). However, Rigol and the DS1000z had their own fair share of issues, and if the thread on this forum can be believed then it seems some are still waiting to be resolved.
I'd say it's not as clear cut as you think it is.
improperly matched sampling vs bandwidth means it is not that much better than the DS1054ZThe bandwidth:sampling ratio is exactly the same as a DS1054Z. :-//
It probably varies a bit from unit to unit (and cable).1000Z Bandwidth:The -3 dB bandwidth of the $400 DS1000Z (same total sample rate as the new Siglent) is about 170-180 MHz, so no.I heard the measured bandwidth was about 135Mhz (on EEVBLOG form)
Frequency Amplitude
150 MHz -3.0 dBm
If you can upgrade the siglent to the sig gen by hacking, then I agree, there will be a standard choice of 2 DSOs for entry level, 4 channels or free sig gen, but Dave suggested this not the case, at least right now.
A flaw in your maths maybe.....If you can upgrade the siglent to the sig gen by hacking, then I agree, there will be a standard choice of 2 DSOs for entry level, 4 channels or free sig gen, but Dave suggested this not the case, at least right now.
...except they don't cost the same. The Siglent is 50% more than a DS1054Z.
Oh, I see... you meant the 100MHz SDS1102X version. Yes, that costs less....except they don't cost the same. The Siglent is 50% more than a DS1054Z.A flaw in your maths maybe.....
AFAIK the DS1054Z is US$399 and the SDS1102X is US$499, excuse me but that difference is not 50%.
Oh, I see... you meant the 100MHz SDS1102X version. Yes, that costs less....except they don't cost the same. The Siglent is 50% more than a DS1054Z.A flaw in your maths maybe.....
AFAIK the DS1054Z is US$399 and the SDS1102X is US$499, excuse me but that difference is not 50%.
If you can unlock the bandwidth and signal generator then it will be an interesting choice.
Plus ... if people can hack/unlock the signal generator with then it's a killer device. They'll sell truckloads of them.
I've heard that Siglent have taken extra measures to ensure that's not going to happen.
I give it a week once they hit the shelves ;D
improperly matched sampling vs bandwidth means it is not that much better than the DS1054ZThe bandwidth:sampling ratio is exactly the same as a DS1054Z. :-//
The only reason the signal started to distort in the video is because Dave was hitting it with a 300 MHz signal with both channels turned on.
Try a 150MHz signal into a DS1054Z with all four channels turned on and you'll get exactly the same thing.
improperly matched sampling vs bandwidth means it is not that much better than the DS1054ZThe bandwidth:sampling ratio is exactly the same as a DS1054Z. :-//
The only reason the signal started to distort in the video is because Dave was hitting it with a 300 MHz signal with both channels turned on.
Try a 150MHz signal into a DS1054Z with all four channels turned on and you'll get exactly the same thing.
Hmmm, this seems to be what I am saying and you arguing my point for me. The DS1054Z performs (basically) the same as the Siglent with TWO channels, apples to apples. With one channel, the Sigent does have some advantage. With four channels the Siglent isn't even in the picture! So IMHO, $100 more for the Siglent with only the added usable bandwidth in one channel mode vs the option of four channels (lower bandwidth) is not $100 well spent. There are other benefits of course, but TO ME, IMHO, it is not worth it.
Different needs, different scope is best. Just if take example. If need fast segmented memory acquisition, what is other scope what give max even near 500kwfm/s.
:-+
Both have advantages and disadvantages. No one can say which is universally better. If know user individual needs then it can tell which one is better for this user.
And so on.
But forget all this hype and tell us where they are available for immediate dispatch. :-//
:-+
Both have advantages and disadvantages. No one can say which is universally better. If know user individual needs then it can tell which one is better for this user.
And so on.
But the list grows....
Individual channel controls
400V channel inputs
and so on...
[...]
Chapter 18 SpecificationsSo as far as I understand this, the safety level for mains voltages depends on the selection of the probe switch (1x vs. 10x). How does this compare to the Siglent?
Maximum Input
Voltage (1M?)Analog Channel:
CAT I 300 Vrms, CAT II 100 Vrms, Transient Overvoltage 1000
Vpk
With RP2200 10:1 probe: CAT II 300 Vrms
FYI, none other than the Siglent CEO will be visiting the EEVblog lab in December.Yes this one Dave:
Siglent fanboys can get their questions ready.
FYI, none other than the Siglent CEO will be visiting the EEVblog lab in December.Yes this one Dave:
Siglent fanboys can get their questions ready.
When will a Siglent Spectrum analyser be released and what general specs will it have?
No, there have been whispers of a new model.FYI, none other than the Siglent CEO will be visiting the EEVblog lab in December.Yes this one Dave:
Siglent fanboys can get their questions ready.
When will a Siglent Spectrum analyser be released and what general specs will it have?
Do you mean SSA3030
Both vertical input channels, 400V CAT I:-+
Both have advantages and disadvantages. No one can say which is universally better. If know user individual needs then it can tell which one is better for this user.
And so on.
But the list grows....
Individual channel controls
400V channel inputs
and so on...
[...]
Which one and for what CAT rating?
As I cited here, (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-778-oscilloscope-vertical-confusion/msg735328/#msg735328) the Rigol Manual for the DS1000Z series states:No that's not correct.QuoteChapter 18 SpecificationsSo as far as I understand this, the safety level for mains voltages depends on the selection of the probe switch (1x vs. 10x).
Maximum Input
Voltage (1M?)Analog Channel:
CAT I 300 Vrms, CAT II 100 Vrms, Transient Overvoltage 1000
Vpk
With RP2200 10:1 probe: CAT II 300 Vrms
How does this compare to the Siglent?Good question and a bit of hunting was needed to find all the facts.
FYI, none other than the Siglent CEO will be visiting the EEVblog lab in December.
Siglent fanboys can get their questions ready.
Most scopes are only 2 channel, and I don't hear engineers moaning about this too often. Most 4 channels scopes seldom seem to have more than one or two probes plugged in. 4 channels can certainly be very useful at times, but I would put more performance over more than 2 channels in almost every buying decision.both scopes don't give each other much, and which one is the better buy really depends on what you require.For most people I'd say 4 channels trumps 200Mhz.
Both the Siglent & the Rigol seem to have problems triggering on an AM signal at the modulating frequency rate,with a bit of "jittering" being evident.
The same problem appears with some analog Oscilloscopes,whilst others seem to have no problem with it.
"Stopping" the display & looking at the saved waveform is obviously not the answer where the modulation needs to be adjusted while you are observing the resultant AM signal.
Luckily,in most cases you will have access to the modulating signal,either from its source or after demodulation,so all you need to do is trigger the 'scope from that.
If you look Dave's video starting position 16m50s this part is "just for fun playing"......:-DD
I know Dave can of course do it but some reason here he just want playing like noob who take his first oscilloscope just out from box and then try make as Guinnes record how fast push and turn knobs and buttons nearly randomly.
Great review! made my decisions even tougher...
I would love to see a review of that Siglent SDG2122X arb gen in the video. Maybe make it a "how-to" or "buyer guide" for arb gens.
the "$499 US scope" sells here for $1022 AU plus 10% GST
http://www.triotest.com.au/shop/siglent/3818-siglent-sds1102x-digital-oscilloscope-100mhz-1gsas-2-channel.html (http://www.triotest.com.au/shop/siglent/3818-siglent-sds1102x-digital-oscilloscope-100mhz-1gsas-2-channel.html)
(the url reads incorrectly but points to the 200MHz model)
hmm, that is over $1,100 tax paid AUS for me since I can never claim GST exemption.
I paid $550 (including GST) for my DS1054Z only about 7 or 8 months ago.
There is no comparison with respect to price.
Just to underline how things are getting expensive here in AUS, the Rigol DS2072A is now $1,247 AUS + GST
or $1,371 AUS tax paid, so Trio have priced the Siglent a bit below the DS2072A for our local market as claimed.
It still seems a bit expensive for what you get.
The Rigol DS1054Z has 4 channels, a good 2mV/div front end and options can be enabled via serial numbers.
The Siglent has a nice low noise front end, a very good at 0.5mV/div but only two channels plus ext trigger.
Still the pick of the litter for a hobbiest seems to me to be the Rigol DS1054Z.
Do mask test with DS1000Z and run signal what give result = fail. How many pass/fail test it can do in one second? For what it can use?
Quite right, but with the pass/fail specs of this DSO it will be quite attractive for production checks and those that might need this won't want 4 channels.Do mask test with DS1000Z and run signal what give result = fail. How many pass/fail test it can do in one second? For what it can use?
Usually not a valid point for hobbyists. Personally, I should never buy a 2-channel DSO.
Do mask test with DS1000Z and run signal what give result = fail. How many pass/fail test it can do in one second? For what it can use?
Usually not a valid point for hobbyists. Personally, I should never buy a 2-channel DSO.
rf-loop is correct: the up to 80,000 waveforms always present in memory is a good thing. But to get that it will cost the loss of serial decode .......Rubbish.
Yep. I really couldn't care less about that feature.Do mask test with DS1000Z and run signal what give result = fail. How many pass/fail test it can do in one second? For what it can use?
Usually not a valid point for hobbyists. Personally, I should never buy a 2-channel DSO.
Horses for courses.This. The two market segments (hobby vs. production test) have almost zero overlap, it's a completely pointless debate.
As a hobbyist I quite accept your point of view.Yep. I really couldn't care less about that feature.Do mask test with DS1000Z and run signal what give result = fail. How many pass/fail test it can do in one second? For what it can use?
Usually not a valid point for hobbyists. Personally, I should never buy a 2-channel DSO.
4 channels...? 100% necessary for me.Horses for courses.This. The two market segments (hobby vs. production test) have almost zero overlap, it's a completely pointless debate.
The best we can do is act like engineers and start an opinion poll. That will give us a percentage that we can look at and say 'mmmm' while stroking our metaphorical beards (or real beard if you have one). Maybe we can do that in the 'test gear' forum.
Edit: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/oscilloscopes-how-many-channels-do-you-need/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/oscilloscopes-how-many-channels-do-you-need/)
In my case it can count my fingers or something like it when I have really needed 4 channel oscilloscope.
I was looking at the choice between a DS1054Z with serial decode and this Siglent as shown here that lacks it.rf-loop is correct: the up to 80,000 waveforms always present in memory is a good thing. But to get that it will cost the loss of serial decode .......Rubbish.
When the X series DSO's are fully spec'ed and in mass production they will have Decode, AWG and MSO.
The enable buttons for these options are already on the front panel.
Quite right, but with the pass/fail specs of this DSO it will be quite attractive for production checks and those that might need this won't want 4 channels.Do mask test with DS1000Z and run signal what give result = fail. How many pass/fail test it can do in one second? For what it can use?
Usually not a valid point for hobbyists. Personally, I should never buy a 2-channel DSO.
Quite right, but with the pass/fail specs of this DSO it will be quite attractive for production checks and those that might need this won't want 4 channels.Do mask test with DS1000Z and run signal what give result = fail. How many pass/fail test it can do in one second? For what it can use?
Usually not a valid point for hobbyists. Personally, I should never buy a 2-channel DSO.
I'm going to be a little harsh here, but this is my gut reaction. Prove me wrong if you can.
How crazy would you be to put this instrument in a production test environment? If you are ISO, you have to have every piece of equipment calibrated on schedule and they need to be repeatable. Is that even possible with Siglent stuff? How long would it realistically last (and stay in cal) running all day every day in a production test setup? You may save some money up front, but will you pay for it later?
Sorry I don't have Cal info on procedures.Quite right, but with the pass/fail specs of this DSO it will be quite attractive for production checks and those that might need this won't want 4 channels.Do mask test with DS1000Z and run signal what give result = fail. How many pass/fail test it can do in one second? For what it can use?
Usually not a valid point for hobbyists. Personally, I should never buy a 2-channel DSO.
I'm going to be a little harsh here, but this is my gut reaction. Prove me wrong if you can.
How crazy would you be to put this instrument in a production test environment? If you are ISO, you have to have every piece of equipment calibrated on schedule and they need to be repeatable. Is that even possible with Siglent stuff? How long would it realistically last (and stay in cal) running all day every day in a production test setup? You may save some money up front, but will you pay for it later?
So I have to ask
How do you calibrate that scope?
"So I have to ask
How do you calibrate that scope?"
Calibration is performed "closed-case" with a Fluke calibrator through the USB port.
I see you are in the USA. Transcat performs calibration on Siglent products at their labs throughout North America.
Good idea: send Dave a product, then use his video for marketing. I hope Dave gets a cut of the sale :)Dave was loaned both the SDS1202X and SDG2000X by Aussie multi brand distributor Triotest not Siglent.
Good idea: send Dave a product, then use his video for marketing. I hope Dave gets a cut of the sale :)