Author Topic: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review  (Read 49365 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30122
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« on: September 19, 2015, 12:49:38 pm »
In a world first Dave takes an initial first impressions look at the new Siglent 1000X Series 200MHz entry level oscilloscope. What do you get for US$499?
How does it compare to the Rigol DS2000 Series?
http://www.triotest.com.au/shop/siglent/3816-siglent-sds1102x-digital-oscilloscope-100mhz-1gsas-2-channel.html
http://siglentamerica.com/pdxx.aspx?id=1369&T=2&tid=1

 

Offline Hydrawerk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2382
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2015, 01:36:46 pm »
Thank you for the review.
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline soren

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 54
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2015, 02:48:10 pm »
It exploits the fact that Rigol doesn't have a product to fill the gap between the USD 400 DS1000Z and the USD 840 DS2000A. Not much to see other than that.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10196
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2015, 03:02:05 pm »
It exploits the fact that Rigol doesn't have a product to fill the gap between the USD 400 DS1000Z and the USD 840 DS2000A. Not much to see other than that.
200MHz at $650 is "nothing to see"?

Plus ... if people can hack/unlock the signal generator with then it's a killer device. They'll sell truckloads of them.

 

Offline max666

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 367
  • Country: at
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2015, 03:03:33 pm »
So what's the Waveform Update Rate on the Siglent, if you turn on the second channel?
 

Offline soren

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 54
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2015, 03:20:00 pm »
200MHz at $650 is "nothing to see"?

The -3 dB bandwidth of the $400 DS1000Z (same total sample rate as the new Siglent) is about 170-180 MHz, so no.

Plus ... if people can hack/unlock the signal generator with then it's a killer device. They'll sell truckloads of them.

Noone has done much software hacking on Siglents, so that is highly speculative, whereas with the Rigols you can buy one and rely on the hack being available. (I did remove a few capacitors from my 20 MHz Siglent SDS1022DL, which improved its rise time to about 1.3 ns.)

So again, it slots in in between the DS1000Z and DS2000A and that's why some people will buy it.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10196
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2015, 03:46:10 pm »
200MHz at $650 is "nothing to see"?

The -3 dB bandwidth of the $400 DS1000Z (same total sample rate as the new Siglent) is about 170-180 MHz, so no.

I heard the measured bandwidth was about 135Mhz (on EEVBLOG form)

Nobody's measured the actual bandwidth of this Siglent yet...

Scratch that, it's in the video (I hadn't got to that part yet!).  Dave measured it at 300MHz, although the 1GHz sample rate starts to show itself.


Plus ... if people can hack/unlock the signal generator with then it's a killer device. They'll sell truckloads of them.
Noone has done much software hacking on Siglents, so that is highly speculative

Time will tell...
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 04:21:40 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2769
  • Country: gb
  • Occasionally active on the forum, available via PM
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2015, 04:35:14 pm »
In a world first Dave takes an initial first impressions look at the new Siglent 1000X Series 200MHz entry level oscilloscope. What do you get for US$499?
How does it compare to the Rigol DS2000 Series?

Nice review, thanks for that! It looks like the SDS1000X shares the firmware with the SDS2000 (v2 firmware which is still beta).

BTW, when you showed the acquisition modes you stated that ERES is the typical boxcar averaging. It isn't:
http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/appnotes/differences_between_eres_and_hires.pdf

ERES is one of the things Siglent has adopted from LeCroy, and (assuming it has been implemented correctly) it's nice to see that available on an entry-level scope.

Now, if you could do a similar review for that SDG2000X you had there...  ;)
 
The following users thanked this post: digital_dreamer

Offline Hydrawerk

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2382
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2015, 04:55:03 pm »
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10196
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2015, 05:27:02 pm »
In stock. http://www.siglent.eu/sds1102x-s.html

719 Euro (+TAX) for the 100MHz version?

That's a long way from the $500 Dave mentioned in the video.


Edit: My bad, that's with signal generator... 719 Euro with SigGen, 475 Euro without.

Still...only 2 channels and 50% more expensive than a DS1054Z.  I'm not very tempted. You'd have to really really need that little bit of extra bandwidth.

« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 05:34:43 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline 6581

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 79
  • Country: fi
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2015, 06:16:59 pm »
I find these reviews/previews very interesting, especially with comparison to similarly specced models. Interesting to see differences in user interface, practical performance (not just numbers on spec sheet), build quality and implementation of key features. I'm newbie to electronics and receiving my very first oscilloscope next week (DS1054Z) and Dave's reviews and recommendations weighted a lot in decision making.
 

Offline max666

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 367
  • Country: at
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2015, 06:19:06 pm »
...
Still...only 2 channels and 50% more expensive than a DS1054Z.  I'm not very tempted. You'd have to really really need that little bit of extra bandwidth.

A little bit of extra bandwidth, without getting a higher sample rate. I don't think there are lots of things you can do with the SDS1000X, that you can't do with the DS1054Z (maybe I'm biased).
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10196
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2015, 06:59:44 pm »
A little bit of extra bandwidth, without getting a higher sample rate.
The math works out about the same. It has double the bandwidth but half the channels of the DS1054Z.

eg.

DS1054Z has 1GHz sample rate shared between 4 channels - 2.5 samples per wave at 100Mhz.

This one has 1GHz sample rate shared between 2 channels - 2.5 samples per wave at 200MHz.

With only one channel switched on the DS1040Z has a higher ratio of samples per wave, yes, but this one kept going up to 300MHz.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2015, 07:07:26 pm by Fungus »
 

Online PA0PBZ

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 4154
  • Country: nl
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2015, 07:16:09 pm »
Re: the colour coding for the probes being the wrong colour... The correct colour is already on the probe Dave...
(Not sure about the other probe, you didn't show that one)
Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16347
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2015, 07:42:49 pm »
In a world first Dave takes an initial first impressions look at the new Siglent 1000X Series 200MHz entry level oscilloscope. What do you get for US$499?
Dave, the 200 MHz version is US$659
The 100 MHz version is US$499.

Please edit the OP, it is misleading.

http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-db.aspx?id=1369&tid=1&T=2
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 16347
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2015, 07:52:20 pm »
A little bit of extra bandwidth, without getting a higher sample rate.
The math works out about the same. It has double the bandwidth but half the channels of the DS1054Z.

eg.

DS1054Z has 1GHz sample rate shared between 4 channels - 2.5 samples per wave at 100Mhz.

This one has 1GHz sample rate shared between 2 channels - 2.5 samples per wave at 200MHz.

With only one channel switched on the DS1040Z has a higher ratio of samples per wave, yes, but this one kept going up to 300MHz.
From rf-loop, the SDS1202X measured -3.0 dB BW is ~275 MHz:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-x-series-oscilloscopes-and-arb-waveform-generators/msg758661/#msg758661
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 05:05:04 am by tautech »
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2769
  • Country: gb
  • Occasionally active on the forum, available via PM
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2015, 09:52:53 pm »
A little bit of extra bandwidth, without getting a higher sample rate. I don't think there are lots of things you can do with the SDS1000X, that you can't do with the DS1054Z (maybe I'm biased).

Well, the Siglent has some nice features found in LeCroy mid-range/high-end scopes (like ERES instead of boxcar averaging, or being able to switch interpolation modes independent of the timebase setting, which I don't think you can do on the Rigol DS1000z), but yes, both scopes don't give each other much, and which one is the better buy really depends on what you require.

Plus the level of maturity of the SDS1000X firmware is still unknown.
 

Offline Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10196
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2015, 09:57:08 pm »
both scopes don't give each other much, and which one is the better buy really depends on what you require.
For most people I'd say 4 channels trumps 200Mhz.

Plus the level of maturity of the SDS1000X firmware is still unknown.
I wouldn't rush to buy one. Dave managed to find a some "turn it off and on again" bugs just in the making of this video...

 

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3627
  • Country: ca
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2015, 10:28:06 pm »
500uV/ on rigol 2000 is BULLSHIT. Did i say it loud enough?

B-U-L-L-S-H-I-T

 Do not even think of it as an advantage over other scopes. It is a x2 digital zoom off of 1mV/ . Nothing else happens when you set the switch to 500uS/, no any changes in the front end chain, zero, i have measured and can prove it. The bastards even did not bother to interpolate as they zoom in. They just stretch the display vertically. that is it.  :--

I do not know about Siglent.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline Wuerstchenhund

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2769
  • Country: gb
  • Occasionally active on the forum, available via PM
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2015, 11:12:11 pm »
both scopes don't give each other much, and which one is the better buy really depends on what you require.
For most people I'd say 4 channels trumps 200Mhz.

Not necessarily. There are many tasks that don't require more than two channels, and where the extra bandwidth can be a real advantage.

Quote
Plus the level of maturity of the SDS1000X firmware is still unknown.
I wouldn't rush to buy one. Dave managed to find a some "turn it off and on again" bugs just in the making of this video...

Indeed, and Siglent isn't exactly known for bring products to market with mature firmware (i.e. the SDS2000). However, Rigol and the DS1000z had their own fair share of issues, and if the thread on this forum can be believed then it seems some are still waiting to be resolved.

I'd say it's not as clear cut as you think it is.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2015, 07:23:07 am by Wuerstchenhund »
 

Offline nbritton

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 436
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2015, 11:28:53 pm »
The -3 dB bandwidth of the $400 DS1000Z (same total sample rate as the new Siglent) is about 170-180 MHz, so no.
I heard the measured bandwidth was about 135Mhz (on EEVBLOG form)

The table below is from one of the earlier threads on the 1000Z, I'm assuming these measurements were taken using a BNC cable, because the calculated system bandwidth using a 10X probe is 83 MHz.

1000Z Bandwidth:
Frequency      Amplitude
  10 MHz          0.0 dBm
100 MHz         -1.5 dBm
150 MHz         -3.0 dBm
393 MHz        -10.0 dBm
447 MHz        -20.0 dBm
 

Offline nbritton

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 436
  • Country: us
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #21 on: September 19, 2015, 11:47:38 pm »
The whole SDS1000X series has no option for a logic analyzer, I have no idea why they put the cutout for it on the front panel.

Both the Rigol 2000A and the Siglent SDS1000X spec a 8" TFT LCD display at 800 x 480 pixel resolution.

The 1 GSa/s and 14 Mpts does not impress me. Furthermore, the hack-ability of the Siglent gear is in question, in theory they can be hacked but no one has actually managed to do it yet.
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30122
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2015, 01:38:24 am »
Plus ... if people can hack/unlock the signal generator with then it's a killer device. They'll sell truckloads of them.

I've heard that Siglent have taken extra measures to ensure that's not going to happen.
I give it a week once they hit the shelves ;D
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30122
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2015, 01:40:21 am »
Still...only 2 channels and 50% more expensive than a DS1054Z.  I'm not very tempted. You'd have to really really need that little bit of extra bandwidth.

And/or the bigger screen and extra vertical controls.
 

Online EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 30122
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #797 - Siglent SDS1000X Review
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2015, 01:42:57 am »
Dave managed to find a some "turn it off and on again" bugs just in the making of this video...

Yes, I had only bee playing with it for the few hours it took to shoot this video, and I wasn't systematically trying everything.
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf