Author Topic: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab  (Read 38856 times)

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Offline Gabri74

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #75 on: December 04, 2015, 08:54:19 am »
At one time he mentioned that they are using Linux in some of their products,
but I can't find any reference to this nor any link to source code in their site.
Maybe my google-fu is not strong enough...
It would be really interesting to see what kernel and rootfs the are using...
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #76 on: December 04, 2015, 12:03:01 pm »
The firmware is quite a large part of the value of the goods.
Why would we expect that they would reveal the source code? 
It isn't advertised as Open Source in any way, is it?
 

Offline @rt

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #77 on: December 04, 2015, 12:25:49 pm »
Hats off. I’m impressed.

They need an artist. The stuff on the bench looks unrelated to each other.
Give me his number and I’ll fix it for them.
This is how to make a bunch of equipment that belongs together.
http://www.yaesu-museum.com/a_ja6nka-yaesu.jpg
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2015, 01:02:53 pm »
PCB assembly is done outside, but everything else in in-house. System assembly, test ,programming, calibration, packaging etc.
Who gets the most important job of all - rubbing part numbers from the ICs? Is that out sourced or due to its sensitive nature kept in house? Is there a job description in China for "Parts obfuscator" and is there training on how to do this effectively? Perhaps apprenticeships or vocational qualifications?  :-DD
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #79 on: December 04, 2015, 02:11:44 pm »
Hats off. I’m impressed.

They need an artist. The stuff on the bench looks unrelated to each other.
...
You are right two times here :).
Great products, but could use someone to beautify 'm and give them a house style
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2015, 02:28:39 pm »
At one time he mentioned that they are using Linux in some of their products,
but I can't find any reference to this nor any link to source code in their site.
Maybe my google-fu is not strong enough...
It would be really interesting to see what kernel and rootfs the are using...
I understand they used Windows CE, Linux, and their own custom OS, but currently all development is Linux based.

I will have to watch it again now it's been subtitled as I only got half of it first watch.
 

Offline GNU_Ninja

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2015, 02:54:40 pm »
Who gets the most important job of all - rubbing part numbers from the ICs? Is that out sourced or due to its sensitive nature kept in house? Is there a job description in China for "Parts obfuscator" and is there training on how to do this effectively? Perhaps apprenticeships or vocational qualifications?  :-DD

Damn! I nearly laughed my coffee all over my workstation  :-DD

To be fair, it's not just Chinese companies doing that.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2015, 05:47:12 pm »
Dave; if someone provides a YouTube compatible English subtitles-file, would you attach it to the vid? It's a straightforward upload into the "edit video" interface in YouTube. Mr Qin has great English, and I'm not sure if it's worth it, especially if it's added a day or two after the fact, but some viewers may benefit from it.

Yes I can do that.
Not sure if he would be offended, because I think his English is decent too. But could be hard for others who don't have English as a first language to understand.
I once saw a chinese man trying to explain something to a japanese man , both with only a rudimentary gtasp and very bad pronunciation... eyewatering ...

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Offline @rt

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2015, 06:26:18 pm »
It’s the new girl that does it :D
PCB assembly is done outside, but everything else in in-house. System assembly, test ,programming, calibration, packaging etc.
Who gets the most important job of all - rubbing part numbers from the ICs? Is that out sourced or due to its sensitive nature kept in house? Is there a job description in China for "Parts obfuscator" and is there training on how to do this effectively? Perhaps apprenticeships or vocational qualifications?  :-DD
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2015, 06:44:12 pm »
Perhaps that "new girl" who submitted the DMCA TakeDown got busted down to Nomenclature Obfuscator after the Ebay debacle.  She seems more suitable for that kind of task.
 

Offline gardner

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #85 on: December 05, 2015, 12:11:15 am »
Who gets the most important job of all - rubbing part numbers from the ICs?

I wonder if there is a contract manufacturing angle to this.  Does obscuring the part number help ensure that your contract manufacturer uses the parts you give him instead of sourcing crappy knock-offs from the night market the next street over?  Or do they do the rubbing off after board assembly?
--- Gardner
 

Offline nixfu

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #86 on: December 05, 2015, 12:22:49 am »
Peeked on the chinese site.
Price starts at 36800 CNY ==> 5740,- USD.
Not exactly a bargain...
We know the "buck", I´m curious about the "bang".

$5700 US.   

Disappointing.   Does no other company have the guts to challenge Rigol in the ~$1000 digital SA market?

« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 12:35:03 am by nixfu »
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #87 on: December 05, 2015, 12:30:40 am »
Siglent will remain number 2 if they can't beat the number 1 from its spot. Which I took as Rigol rather than Key$ight. Apples and Oranges guys! Though it's fairly obvious that Siglent is only one single character change and a shuffle to Agilent.
 

Offline TheSteve

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #88 on: December 05, 2015, 01:11:09 am »
Perhaps that "new girl" who submitted the DMCA TakeDown got busted down to Nomenclature Obfuscator after the Ebay debacle.  She seems more suitable for that kind of task.

I dunno - maybe she will mess up and remove the part #'s on jellybean 74 series parts while leaving the good stuff exposed for all to see!
VE7FM
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #89 on: December 05, 2015, 01:26:40 am »
Siglent will remain number 2 if they can't beat the number 1 from its spot. Which I took as Rigol rather than Key$ight. Apples and Oranges guys! Though it's fairly obvious that Siglent is only one single character change and a shuffle to Agilent.

#2 what?... #1 what?
Sales?  Not likely.
Performance?  Nope.
Reliability?  Nope.
Support?  Nope.
Customer service?  Nope.

Siglent is the #1 company named Siglent in the whole world test equipment market!  They are so far ahead in this regard that no one will EVER catch them!  They single handedly innovated the entire company named Siglent industry!

Realistically Rigol is still a joke when it comes to high quality equipment, so if they consider them #1 what does that make Siglent.  Just because they make cheap stuff, and maybe sell a lot of cheap stuff, that doesn't make them a market leader.  No one is going to pay $5700 for Siglent quality stuff.  If you proposed that to your boss you would be laughed at.

I'm not saying there isn't a place for Siglent.  The stuff they make is great value for hobby use and I agree it really does open up a lot of equipment to people that previously couldn't afford it before.  That alone is killer.  I have one of their cheap function generators at my house.  Just quit the marketing BS about how you want to be #1 in the industry (whatever that means).
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #90 on: December 05, 2015, 02:58:57 am »
Dave; if someone provides a YouTube compatible English subtitles-file, would you attach it to the vid? It's a straightforward upload into the "edit video" interface in YouTube. Mr Qin has great English, and I'm not sure if it's worth it, especially if it's added a day or two after the fact, but some viewers may benefit from it.

Quote
Kudos to Mr. Qin for making the effort to accommodate us "foreigners".

Totally agree!

I was trying to have it on in the background while working on something else, but I was having to concentrate too much on what he was saying.  I haven't worked with many Chinese English speakers, so my understanding of how the accent inflects upon English isn't as good as say Vietnamese or Korean (much more common where I live)
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2015, 03:30:29 am »
The firmware is quite a large part of the value of the goods.
Why would we expect that they would reveal the source code? 
It isn't advertised as Open Source in any way, is it?

If they're using Linux and the immense amount of userspace code required to support it, the license requires certain things. You should read the GPL some time.
 

Offline rs20

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #92 on: December 05, 2015, 03:32:40 am »
#2 what?... #1 what?

"I think in the current time, if we calculate the quantity of oscilloscopes, I believe we're maybe around number 2?"

He clearly stated he was referring to number-of-oscilloscopes (as opposed to total sales, which would be total-$-value-of-everything). Obviously it is a metric that favours a low-cost producer, but an impressive achievement nevertheless.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #93 on: December 05, 2015, 04:26:11 pm »
On the About page of the Siglent website, there is a brief Company History:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/about.aspx?id=2

In 2005 they launched their very first scope with model number ADS7000.

This made me curious, so I started googling about this model number, as I wanted to find out more about the specs of their very first scope, and I also wanted to find out how it looked like :)

First I was googling on "Siglent ADS7000" and could not find this scope.
But then I realized that they started as an OEM company in the early days, and that the scope might have been released under a different brand.

One of the queries resulted in Atten but a different model number.
Then I realized that ADS might come from Atten Digital Scope. So maybe it is indeed an Atten.

So then I googled on "Atten ADS7000", and found several results.

http://toolboom.com/en/Digital-Oscilloscope-Atten-ADS7202SA.php

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-ATTEN-ADS7102-100MHz/413213_623867377.html

http://www.mondoplast.ro/eng/Digital-oscilloscope-Atten-ADS7102CAn-pg_ft-3289

https://books.google.no/books?id=-lZgBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA387&lpg=PA387&dq=atten+ads7202c&source=bl&ots=IWBV_0A3po&sig=TckMAZSm7H4Y5e_jyKtvlKUD1Uk&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM1O_Uj8XJAhWl8HIKHWccAjMQ6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&q=atten%20ads7202c&f=false

The Atten ADS7000 looked really good actually!
They even had some color models. See the images below :)







Even more googling, I stumbled on the following post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rigol-ds1102e-vs-xytron-dso1102cal-aka-%28atten-ads1102cal%29/msg172409/#msg172409

Very interesting! Apparently Atten and Siglent have the same company history. It is a 1:1 duplicate.
So they both have the same roots from DinYoung technologies Co.,Ltd.
But then at some point they split in two entities? Anybody who knows more about this?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 04:29:08 pm by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline alan.green@gmail.com

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2015, 05:49:11 am »
Qin in Chinese reads as Chin, not Queen.

Yes, there are a few Chinese last names that are often mis-pronounced in the west. Qin should be pronounced as Chin or Tsin. I am surprised Eric didn't correct Dave on that (probably being polite).

Actually Tsin is better.

If you're going to pick on Dave's pronunciation of a Chinese surname, you'd better ask him to get the tone right too :P. FWIW I'm sure Mr Qin has suffered through many brave attempts by English speakers to say his name, and would have known what he was in for if he had watched even one mailbag.

Dave: Loved this episode. Am going to watch it again now that it has subtitles. Thanks!

 

Offline calzap

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2015, 06:16:11 am »
I've lived most of my life in Yolo County, California.  Until this thread, I hadn't wondered where the name came from, so I looked it up.  Here is the real meaning of Yolo, courtesy of counties.org:

YOLO
Created 1850. In the original act of 1850, the name was spelled “Yola.” Yolo is an Indian name variously believed to be a corruption of an Indian tribal name Yo-loy meaning “a place abounding in rushes” or of the name of the Indian chief, Yodo, or of the Indian village of Yodoi.
------------------

Could it also be the origin of Yoda?

Mike in Yolo County, California


 

Offline analogNewbie

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2015, 12:37:12 pm »

Very interesting! Apparently Atten and Siglent have the same company history. It is a 1:1 duplicate.
So they both have the same roots from DinYoung technologies Co.,Ltd.
But then at some point they split in two entities? Anybody who knows more about this?

Siglent = Atten.

Dirty history about Atten:
http://translate.google.com.hk/translate?act=url&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.amobbs.com/thread-3540497-1-1.html
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2015, 03:00:36 pm »
Wow, I've never seen this before....



I have no problems with this page, my ISP is TWC.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #98 on: December 06, 2015, 03:08:44 pm »
I have no problems with this page, my ISP is TWC.
The error doesn't say that my ISP doesn't allow access to the website.
It says that GOOGLE is "unable to access".
Is this an artifact of the infamous Chinese web censorship?
 

Offline analogNewbie

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #99 on: December 06, 2015, 03:16:50 pm »
I have no problems with this page, my ISP is TWC.
The error doesn't say that my ISP doesn't allow access to the website.
It says that GOOGLE is "unable to access".
Is this an artifact of the infamous Chinese web censorship?

replace the "translate.google.com.hk" in the url to "translate.google.com"
 


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