Author Topic: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab  (Read 38860 times)

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EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« on: December 02, 2015, 11:02:21 pm »
Siglent Founder and CEO Eric Qin visited the EEVblog Lab and very kindly agreed to sit down a quick impromptu chat.
http://siglent.com/ens/

 
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Offline gemby

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2015, 12:11:46 am »
Nice one, i enjoy listen to successful stories like that.
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2015, 12:13:30 am »
Yolo?
 

Offline ProBang2

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2015, 12:16:57 am »
Yolo?

Yolo ==> You know

Just my guess...
 

Offline ludzinc

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2015, 12:28:43 am »
Yolo?

Really?

You Only Live Once.....
 

Offline ECEdesign

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2015, 12:37:40 am »
When you go to a Research 1 university you get used to a lot of different accents.  Nice video
 

Offline pickle9000

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2015, 12:41:59 am »
That was a good one, hope he comes back in the future.
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2015, 12:55:21 am »
After the recent debacle I thought that it was extremely decent of Mr Qin to show up and lay it all on the table, a good show by all accounts and we are all winners.... :-+


 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2015, 01:00:36 am »
Great interview, Dave.  Thank you.

Yes it takes some time to understand someone with a heavy "foreign" accent, but you eventually come to understand them without struggle.

It would appear that Mr. Qin's English is probably better than Dave's Mandarin (or whatever dialect).
Kudos to Mr. Qin for making the effort to accommodate us "foreigners".
 

Offline rs20

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2015, 01:08:07 am »
Dave; if someone provides a YouTube compatible English subtitles-file, would you attach it to the vid? It's a straightforward upload into the "edit video" interface in YouTube. Mr Qin has great English, and I'm not sure if it's worth it, especially if it's added a day or two after the fact, but some viewers may benefit from it.

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Kudos to Mr. Qin for making the effort to accommodate us "foreigners".

Totally agree!
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2015, 01:08:58 am »
It would appear that Mr. Qin's English is probably better than Dave's Mandarin (or whatever dialect).

Infinitely so!

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Kudos to Mr. Qin for making the effort to accommodate us "foreigners".

Indeed.
And he came to Australia just to come to the lab too and meet me too, so hats off.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2015, 01:30:28 am »
So if I buy a 2nd hand Siglent TE I can expect no support on firmware updates?

There was no addressing any new strategy on their grey market problem. In my opinion they have to fix it at the distribution level, not at the ebay (or similar) end-point.

Also nothing was said about why they treat grey market products as counterfeit ones. There are no clones or fake products and if their own products get out of their own distribution channels, the customer that buys it should not be punished by not offering service or falsely claiming a genuine Siglent product is a fake one.

I think they should focus more on their production and distribution chain than dealing with the problem at the online outlets that offer them.

Yes, I'm aware it's a problem for them, but in my opinion their current solution is the wrong approach and only leads to customer dissatisfaction. I don't care if the CEO tells me directly "buy from authorized distributors" If I do find a deal I'm not going to check if it's authorized or not, as long as it's a genuine product.

Other companies have the same problems and it's up to the company to control their own distribution chain and make sure ghost runs don't happen and rejected products are not put on the market. Destroy them, refurbish them and make sure rejects don't make it into the mainstream. They are the only ones that can control that aspect, not us the customers.

All that said, thanks for the Interview and especial thanks to Mr. Qin for showing us that he is a regular guy, with passion for his company, and I'm very impressed by their growth regardless if they are really number 2 or not. But I'm pleased that he shows passion and cares about engineers and hobbyists so a big thumbs up  :-+

Now, I would suggest again to fix your distribution channel instead of using intimidation with the non-authorized distributors.

Edit: sorry for being so redundant, but I strongly believe the solution is to control their production/distribution chain, their problems should never become their customer's problems that bought a genuine article no matter what.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 01:47:11 am by miguelvp »
 

Offline Dino KL0S

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2015, 01:50:05 am »
Dave - I think you handled this interview superbly, even with the issue of language being a little difficult to wade thru, well done! :-+
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2015, 02:36:55 am »
Dave; if someone provides a YouTube compatible English subtitles-file, would you attach it to the vid? It's a straightforward upload into the "edit video" interface in YouTube. Mr Qin has great English, and I'm not sure if it's worth it, especially if it's added a day or two after the fact, but some viewers may benefit from it.

Yes I can do that.
Not sure if he would be offended, because I think his English is decent too. But could be hard for others who don't have English as a first language to understand.
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2015, 02:42:57 am »
So if I buy a 2nd hand Siglent TE I can expect no support on firmware updates?

Firmware is freely available on their website.
What he's saying is that if you buy gear from non-authorised dealers, then don't expect their 30days no questions asked asked return policy.
He also said that they support older products firmware even though newer models have come out.

Quote
Yes, I'm aware it's a problem for them, but in my opinion their current solution is the wrong approach and only leads to customer dissatisfaction. I don't care if the CEO tells me directly "buy from authorized distributors" If I do find a deal I'm not going to check if it's authorized or not, as long as it's a genuine product.

And that's the exact problem they face, hence them trying to clamp down on authorised distributors selling outside their local markets.

Quote
Now, I would suggest again to fix your distribution channel instead of using intimidation with the non-authorized distributors.

He admitted that was a mistake. Try are trying to target authorised distributors sneakily selling stuff on ebay etc.
 

Offline alank2

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2015, 02:56:27 am »
He also said that they support older products firmware even though newer models have come out.

This is a big deal, so many companies will leave you in the dust the second they come out with a new product.

I thought the interview was great.

My first product from Siglent is their SDG2082X waveform generator and I love it.
 

Offline nixfu

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2015, 02:56:45 am »
Hey I like that guy.  He actually seems like a really cool fellow. 


Nicely done Dave, but personally I wish you would have really bugged(begged) him to try and challenge Rigol in brining out a competitor to the DS-815 SA.  Right now no one can touch Rigol at all when it comes to SA's for the hobbyist.  You mentioned SA's but didn't go far enough for me. :)


>Firmware is freely available on their website.

yes,  it does bug me about Rigol, that I have to call of tequipment.net and provide them with a blood sample and  beg them to send me the super secret firmware file to get updates for my Rigol gear.  It was nice to hear someone take customer service seriously.  That is one way to become the most popular vendor at the low end of the market because you will get more 'fans' than the other guys.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 03:01:26 am by nixfu »
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2015, 03:27:03 am »
Hey I like that guy.  He actually seems like a really cool fellow. 

He's cooler off camera. He's a nerd like us.

Quote
Nicely done Dave, but personally I wish you would have really bugged(begged) him to try and challenge Rigol in brining out a competitor to the DS-815 SA.  Right now no one can touch Rigol at all when it comes to SA's for the hobbyist.  You mentioned SA's but didn't go far enough for me. :)

Their new SA is coming out this month. Don't know where in the market it will be positioned though.

Quote
yes,  it does bug me about Rigol, that I have to call of tequipment.net and provide them with a blood sample and  beg them to send me the super secret firmware file to get updates for my Rigol gear.

Yes, that sucks big time. Rigol continue to not get this.
I've also heard that Rigol are losing some good people...

Quote
  It was nice to hear someone take customer service seriously.  That is one way to become the most popular vendor at the low end of the market because you will get more 'fans' than the other guys.

Eric knows this, which is why he came all the way to Australia just to meet me (no other itinerary, he flew back the next morning).  :-+
 

Offline calexanian

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2015, 03:30:16 am »
I have one of their SDS 1052DL scopes and it appears to work well. Good to hear about a relatively new company breaking through the small business plateau. We are almost 40 years at our business and are still just 8 employees!
Charles Alexanian
Alex-Tronix Control Systems
 

Online coppice

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2015, 03:41:42 am »
Quote
yes,  it does bug me about Rigol, that I have to call of tequipment.net and provide them with a blood sample and  beg them to send me the super secret firmware file to get updates for my Rigol gear.

Yes, that sucks big time. Rigol continue to not get this.
I've also heard that Rigol are losing some good people...
Losing good people is a way of life in any successful China electronics company. The market for good people is usually quite strong, and people go where the money is. If an engineer speaks English well, they can really pick and choose amongst employers.
 

Offline rs20

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #20 on: December 03, 2015, 03:48:28 am »
yes,  it does bug me about Rigol, that I have to call of tequipment.net and provide them with a blood sample and  beg them to send me the super secret firmware file to get updates for my Rigol gear.

Eh? I bought a power supply and oscilloscope from Emona Australia, but I got my firmware updates directly from the Rigol site. Ever since I did that, I get mailed firmware updates direct from Rigol whenever they become available.
 

Offline TheSteve

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #21 on: December 03, 2015, 05:05:51 am »
I'm not a really big fan of Siglent but the CEO making an effort like he did still deserves two thumbs up. I may even own a Siglent product some day, but will still try to avoid it if possible.
VE7FM
 

Offline boffin

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #22 on: December 03, 2015, 05:25:34 am »
Firstly; I'm embarrassed by the people who are mocking his language skills; as Dave pointed out, his English is much better than my Chinese (or my any other language). I would expect better from the EEVBlog crowd.  |O

Secondly; I'm amazed he came to Australia to come visit Dave; and good for him.  He's pushed the brand way way up in my mind by taking the time to go straight for the hobbiest market and the biggest blogger.    :-+
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2015, 05:48:40 am »
Firstly; I'm embarrassed by the people who are mocking his language skills; as Dave pointed out, his English is much better than my Chinese (or my any other language). I would expect better from the EEVBlog crowd.  |O

Secondly; I'm amazed he came to Australia to come visit Dave; and good for him.  He's pushed the brand way way up in my mind by taking the time to go straight for the hobbiest market and the biggest blogger.    :-+

I don't think that the people that mentioned yolo were mocking his language skills, just asking what it meant. I did figure myself it meant "you know" based on context. And the You only live once was not mocking in my oppinion.

Maybe I missed the comment that you are referring to.
 

Offline zirlou21

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2015, 05:56:08 am »
 :) :) :)

...Yolo!!!!!!  congratulation from the Phillippines...
 

Online coppice

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #25 on: December 03, 2015, 05:59:17 am »
Firstly; I'm embarrassed by the people who are mocking his language skills; as Dave pointed out, his English is much better than my Chinese (or my any other language). I would expect better from the EEVBlog crowd.  |O
You must be new here.  ;)
 

Offline Towger

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #26 on: December 03, 2015, 08:35:28 am »
[ directly from the Rigol site. Ever since I did that, I get mailed firmware updates direct from Rigol whenever they become available.

I also get emails direct from Rigol with links to the latest firmware.  The last one arrived a few days ago for the 1000Z update released about a month ago.
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #27 on: December 03, 2015, 08:57:31 am »
Thank you to Mr Qin for making the effort but I really had problems understanding what he was saying. If subtitles ever appear then I will certainly rewatch the video.
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

Warren Buffett
 

Offline tautech

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #28 on: December 03, 2015, 09:14:57 am »
Only watched a few seconds so far and the yolo is...you know.
Back to watching...  :popcorn:
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline nidlaX

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2015, 10:10:43 am »
I really commend him for doing that whole segment, you can see that it took a lot of effort for him to articulate all of his thoughts in English. That said, subtitles would be marvelous for viewers!
 

Offline rs20

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #30 on: December 03, 2015, 10:20:06 am »
Thank you to Mr Qin for making the effort but I really had problems understanding what he was saying. If subtitles ever appear then I will certainly rewatch the video.

I really commend him for doing that whole segment, you can see that it took a lot of effort for him to articulate all of his thoughts in English. That said, subtitles would be marvelous for viewers!

I'm working on it right now... it's a time consuming job!

Can someone figure out what was said from 4:47 to 5:15?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 10:21:45 am by rs20 »
 

Offline franksanderdo

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #31 on: December 03, 2015, 11:16:44 am »
Hi rs20

not sure if I am to late, but here comes the part from 4:47 to 5:15
"...You know, at the beginning, at that time if you use a windows system or a linux platform, that was 2005, i don't think, that was impossible, so in that time we use our own (here I miss a word) operations system, it is a small (again a word missing) system, i don't remember the name..."

I know the grammatics are weird, but I believe you can sort them better than I can (not being english native speaker)

Thanks a lot for the effort producing sub titles  :-+ :-+
please excuse a non native english writers wordings. Any advice on it is appreciated.
 

Offline rs20

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #32 on: December 03, 2015, 11:27:29 am »
Awesome, thanks -- I misheard "platform" as "blank phone" and got lost. I've pieced it together now with your help!

Next up: 23:25 to 23:35?

And 27:52? "She did a Johnson?"
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:42:29 am by rs20 »
 

Offline franksanderdo

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #33 on: December 03, 2015, 12:00:35 pm »
... I misheard "platform" as "blank phone"...

hmmm.... blank phone can be kind of misleading  ;)
Let me try on:
23:25 to 23:35

"...In current time we give Options to MSX (not sure about the X) and MSO, AWG (nut sure about the G) series decode and this and this kind of features. May be in the future..."

... And 27:52? "She did a Johnson?"...

That is a tough one... need some more runs listening to it....
please excuse a non native english writers wordings. Any advice on it is appreciated.
 

Offline davace

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2015, 12:03:42 pm »
Awesome, thanks -- I misheard "platform" as "blank phone" and got lost. I've pieced it together now with your help!
Next up: 23:25 to 23:35?

buy our option, to update... update some such...
and they...
In current time we give option to...
ms option
mso, awg, signal decode these kind of features.  Maybe in the future we give the option to update the bandwidth

And 27:52? "She did a Johnson?"

She did a wrong thing.


If you need anything else, I'm happy to try...


EDIT:  I got "Signal Decode" from a website, it is one of the available software options... as are AWG and MSO... although the first time he says MS, I'm not 100% sure of the third bit... its not O, but it might not be Option either, now I re-listen.  If anything, it sounds like "something" to me... but that doesn't fit the context.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 12:10:42 pm by davace »
 

Offline franksanderdo

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2015, 12:10:19 pm »
Ahhhh perfect davace!!!

I could make any thing out of the 27:52....

Will be cool to see the video with subtitles!
please excuse a non native english writers wordings. Any advice on it is appreciated.
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2015, 12:43:21 pm »
Great episode  :-+
 

Offline rs20

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2015, 01:07:36 pm »
Dave,

Subtitles done. Feel free to download+reupload this file:

https://rs20-static.firebaseapp.com/pano/eevblog826.srt

In YouTube it's "Edit Video" > "Subtitles and CC" > ??? Add a language (or something) > "Upload a file". It's a proper subtitle file, not just a transcript.

Thanks to davace and franksanderdo for the assistance!

EDIT: Fixed broken link.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 11:33:38 am by rs20 »
 

Offline RupertGo

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2015, 01:15:19 pm »
This is quite a coup for EEVBlog - CEOs from anywhere don't tend to do this, unless it's with the big guys and rarely even then. Certainly not in such an intimate and uncontrolled setting. Dave handled the interview really well, too.

Definitely moves things up a notch for the blog. I'm sure it hasn't gone un-noticed.

 

Offline jeremy

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2015, 01:29:46 pm »
Anyone have more info on the spectrum analyser?
 

Offline TrioTest

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #40 on: December 03, 2015, 01:46:28 pm »
That was a good one, hope he comes back in the future.

At TRIO T&M we are hoping that Eric comes back to Australia when the new spectrum analyser is launched. It would be great to have the world-wide launch on EEVBLOG. 

Disclosure: As a Siglent distributor I'm biased towards Siglent but actually proud to be so!!  Eric flew in from China, and Steve flew in from the USA. The sole purpose was to visit Dave. That's a lot of cost and a lot of time-out from their other activities. Their level of commitment to Siglent customers is commendable and you can see it in Eric's sincerity. Makes us proud to be Siglent's Aussie distributor.
www.siglent.com.au

Quote
Nicely done Dave, but personally I wish you would have really bugged (begged) him to try and challenge Rigol in bringing out a competitor to the DS-815 SA.  Right now no one can touch Rigol at all when it comes to SA's for the hobbyist.  You mentioned SA's but didn't go far enough for me. :)

Quote from: eevblog
Their new SA is coming out this month. Don't know where in the market it will be positioned though.

You won't have long to wait. Eric and Steve had a data sheet with them and approximate pricing.  From what I saw the Siglent SA will sit nicely in its target market. Yes there's more than one model. and I think the market will be well-pleased with the new SSA series.

Quote
  It was nice to hear someone take customer service seriously.  That is one way to become the most popular vendor at the low end of the market because you will get more 'fans' than the other guys.

Quote from: eevblog
Eric knows this, which is why he came all the way to Australia just to meet me (no other itinerary, he flew back the next morning).  :-+

Correct Dave. Service is one of the variables in the "value" equation.   (Customer VALUE = Performance / Price + Service)
 

Offline all_repair

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #41 on: December 03, 2015, 01:59:33 pm »
Siglent did not rank high to me, but as he has taken EEVBLOG viewers so seriously, they shall be my first choice for my next test equipment. 
 

Offline halexa

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #42 on: December 03, 2015, 02:02:41 pm »
Or you could just use the YouTube auto generated subtitles
 :-DD

 
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Offline cidcorp

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #43 on: December 03, 2015, 03:20:44 pm »

Well I have to take second to applaud Eric for taking to to visit you and sit down for what must have been a difficult 30 minutes.
This is another reason I think Siglent is putting a genuine effort to produce better product and listen to their customers.

I only have one little thing to say to Eric.  When asked about where he hires his engineers from, he said China only.  I face palmed :palm: at that point.
Eric, you want these products to be taken seriously, you want localization to be done professionally, hire one or two engineers from the target
market(s), North America, Different areas of Europe, etc.  For example just 1 native English speaking/writing engineer would take all the chin-glish out of the product
for North America.


And that's the exact problem they face, hence them trying to clamp down on authorized distributors selling outside their local markets.


So for example, purchasing from Batronix when I live in North America is what they are trying to clamp down on?  If I would have purchased
local in Canada I would have spent 60% more on a product (because of a sale price).  I would have been peeved if they said they don't ship to
Canada due to arrangements with the Siglent.

Anyway,  :-+ :-+, for ERIC and DAVE.  Enjoyed the video, and I am really looking forward to seeing the Spectrum Analyzer to be released
shortly - I'm hoping it'll be targeted to the low end of the market where currently Rigol sits alone.

Chris
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #44 on: December 03, 2015, 06:09:59 pm »
A big THANK YOU to RS20, Davace and Franksanderdo for the subtitles, I could not have listened to the video without you.
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Offline tautech

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #45 on: December 03, 2015, 06:35:58 pm »
Anyone have more info on the spectrum analyser?
My Datasheet list 2 models, 2.1 and 3.2 GHz

You can have a peek at them in Chinese here:
http://www.siglent.com/spectrum_analyzer/SSA3000X
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #46 on: December 03, 2015, 07:00:19 pm »
Qin in Chinese reads as Chin, not Queen.
 

Offline ProBang2

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2015, 07:46:35 pm »
Peeked on the chinese site.
Price starts at 36800 CNY ==> 5740,- USD.
Not exactly a bargain...
We know the "buck", I´m curious about the "bang".
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2015, 07:53:02 pm »
Disclosure: As a Siglent distributor I'm biased towards Siglent but actually proud to be so!!  Eric flew in from China, and Steve flew in from the USA. The sole purpose was to visit Dave. That's a lot of cost and a lot of time-out from their other activities.
Obviously for a good reason because Siglent messed up big time on several occasions so damage control working at full throttle. Making a courtesy visit helps to keep up appearances but doesn't solve the underlying issues. By having their CEO visit Dave Siglent did nothing to improve their products and yet people are cheering  :wtf: Come on guys don't get fooled by seeing shiny beads and mirrors!!

I didn't watch the entire interview but any word about their firmware department? Having a few engineers try to train people who are fresh from school is a recipe for dissaster.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 08:45:34 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline AlphZeta

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #49 on: December 03, 2015, 08:11:55 pm »
Qin in Chinese reads as Chin, not Queen.

Yes, there are a few Chinese last names that are often mis-pronounced in the west. Qin should be pronounced as Chin or Tsin. I am surprised Eric didn't correct Dave on that (probably being polite). 
 

Offline c4757p

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #50 on: December 03, 2015, 08:14:17 pm »
Mispronouncing names is kinda Dave's thing ;)
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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2015, 08:15:19 pm »
Qin in Chinese reads as Chin, not Queen.

Yes, there are a few Chinese last names that are often mis-pronounced in the west. Qin should be pronounced as Chin or Tsin. I am surprised Eric didn't correct Dave on that (probably being polite).

Actually Tsin is better.
 

Offline Maxlor

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2015, 08:21:39 pm »
yes,  it does bug me about Rigol, that I have to call of tequipment.net and provide them with a blood sample and  beg them to send me the super secret firmware file to get updates for my Rigol gear.

Yes, that sucks big time. Rigol continue to not get this.
I've also heard that Rigol are losing some good people...
Huh, but Rigol's firmwares are right here, available for direct download: http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3
 

Offline AF6LJ

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2015, 09:37:50 pm »
Good interview Dave, and thank you Mr, Qin for taking the time to answer questions.
 :-+ :-+
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2015, 09:40:56 pm »
I really liked the structure of the interview and the type of questions.
All questions were really relevant and the order they were built up, worked very well!

Cool to hear that he started the company with fellow students.

Some questions unanswered :)

1. How did they come up with the name, and how long did it actually take them to come up with this name :) My guess is that Siglent comes from Signal and Intelligent.
But still would be nice to hear other alternatives that made the first rounds before they decided on the final name. Apparently the name took really off, as the sales increased after they moved from an OEM business model to a branded business model.

2. Easter eggs in Siglent products. Maybe the CEO put in some easter eggs himself in the first model.
Well, at least they had 2,5 years to add one in :) And maybe even today there are some easter eggs left in the newer products.

3. Financing. How they pulled this together in the very early days of the factory.
Did they go to several banks for getting a business loan. Insight on the process back then, and maybe also some insights on the business climate in China today. Do they have incubators in China today? Is it as easy as in the US today or at least similar? Silicon valley spirit, Stealth phase approach, etc.

4. Siglent's take on High-Level-Synthesis and an "All-in-C" based design flow, where the hardware logic is not written in VHDL by hardware engineers, but developed by software engineers, who synthesize the high-level source code into RTL.

5. Siglent's take on Xilinx Zynq 7000 series (inspired by GW-Instek in Taiwan).

6. Engineering education in China. If the amount of engineering students is increasing. Popular engineering schools. Competition between universities in research papers. In Europe some countries are facing challenges as number of engineering students is declining: "Everybody likes an iPhone, but nobody likes to make one".

7. Factory tour in Siglent. Would be cool if this can be organized. To get a glimpse of how scopes are put together. There is a guy on Internet who does lots of these factory tours for Android tablet devices (armdevices.net). Still AFAIK I have not seen a factory tour of a Chinese scope factory.

8. Where does Siglent buy their relative silent fans? Apparently they know, and maybe if they reveal, someone can pass the address on to Rigol :) And Where does Siglent buy the factory-remove screen protectors? Rigol should have them on their screens as well :)

9. Siglent's view on having a video output connector on test equipment. Why not have an HDMI connector on the oscilloscope and the spectrum analyzer. Or both VGA and HDMI to support older video projectors in the class room.

10. Licensing. Whether Siglent licenses some SW libraries and IP from other companies (algorithms, RTL IP blocks, patents on signal processing, interleaving methods, etc.) in their products?

11. Spectrum analyzer. Do they sell them in Europe? I could not find on their website.

Maybe these questions can be answered in a follow-up interview, or can be addressed by email exchange between the Australian interviewer (aka Dave) and the Chinese CEO (aka Yolo) :)
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 10:41:58 pm by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #55 on: December 03, 2015, 10:19:01 pm »
Making a courtesy visit helps to keep up appearances but doesn't solve the underlying issues. By having their CEO visit Dave Siglent did nothing to improve their products and yet people are cheering  :wtf: Come on guys don't get fooled by seeing shiny beads and mirrors!!

As I remember the visit had been arranged well before the ebay shenanigans. So good on Eric to come and face the music, and Dave for not glossing over it. Many others CEO's would have found "other pressing engagements" and called off the interview...

I'm surprised he didn't stay in sunny Sydney for a couple of days touristy stuff though. I guess a CEO's got stuff to do...
 

Offline TrioTest

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #56 on: December 03, 2015, 11:00:50 pm »

As I remember the visit had been arranged well before the ebay shenanigans. So good on Eric to come and face the music, and Dave for not glossing over it. Many others CEO's would have found "other pressing engagements" and called off the interview...

I'm surprised he didn't stay in sunny Sydney for a couple of days touristy stuff though. I guess a CEO's got stuff to do...

Eric only had a few hours spare on Sunday afternoon. We had a quick drive west on the M4 and up the hills to Euroka Clearing in the Blue Mountains National Park.  Steve from Siglent USA had just got off his flight a few hours earlier so we needed to keep them awake to get over the jet lag.  We did some sight-seeing and had a traditional Aussie picnic.  The new SDS2304X was well received by the locals in the National Park too.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2015, 11:09:37 pm by TrioTest »
 

Offline RupertGo

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #57 on: December 04, 2015, 12:27:39 am »
"9. Siglent's view on having a video output connector on test equipment. Why not have an HDMI connector on the oscilloscope and the spectrum analyzer. Or both VGA and HDMI to support older video projectors in the class room."

It has other implications. My eyes have gone south recently, and I have a lot of difficulty using my (Rigol) spectrum analyser. A decent video out would mean I could easily see stuff on my very large, very bright LCD monitor - it would make all the difference. It can't be a cost consideration, given the very slight incremental price of including the facility and the amount of excellent, expensive engineering elsewhere, it has to be a marketing thing. But for me, and for lots of other people, it's a really painful omission.
 

Offline jeremy

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #58 on: December 04, 2015, 01:05:56 am »
Peeked on the chinese site.
Price starts at 36800 CNY ==> 5740,- USD.
Not exactly a bargain...
We know the "buck", I´m curious about the "bang".

Damn. Looks like a really nice instrument, but that's definitely outside my meagre price range. Especially considering you can get the tektronix mdo3000 with 3Ghz of spectrum analyser for US$3500 at the moment.
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #60 on: December 04, 2015, 01:27:15 am »
This is quite a coup for EEVBlog - CEOs from anywhere don't tend to do this, unless it's with the big guys and rarely even then.

Keysight invited me to the US (paid for) to tour their facility and blog it and interview people etc, and I asked if the CEO would like to be interviewed. They went and asked and got a big fat NOPE. Only did interviews for Fortune 500 or *insert big name here*. I wasn't even on the radar.
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #61 on: December 04, 2015, 01:48:24 am »
I didn't watch the entire interview but any word about their firmware department? Having a few engineers try to train people who are fresh from school is a recipe for dissaster.

They have about 50 people (half their R&D staff on software/firmware)
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #62 on: December 04, 2015, 01:50:58 am »
I really liked the structure of the interview and the type of questions.
All questions were really relevant and the order they were built up, worked very well!

*phew*
Because I just made them up on the fly after I hit record!

Quote
3. Financing. How they pulled this together in the very early days of the factory.

Completely forgot that one, good question, as are the others.

 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #63 on: December 04, 2015, 01:53:40 am »
Making a courtesy visit helps to keep up appearances but doesn't solve the underlying issues. By having their CEO visit Dave Siglent did nothing to improve their products and yet people are cheering  :wtf: Come on guys don't get fooled by seeing shiny beads and mirrors!!
As I remember the visit had been arranged well before the ebay shenanigans.

Correct, its been on the cards way before that incident.
 

Offline gardner

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #64 on: December 04, 2015, 01:58:10 am »
Do we know if Siglent does their own manufacturing or uses contract manufacturers?  I would kind of assume contract, but for test instruments quality could be an issue. 
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Offline Smokey

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #65 on: December 04, 2015, 02:27:13 am »
Thanks for the subtitles.  I have an especially hard time with the Chinese accent. 

Thanks for the interview.  It would have been nice if he had elaborated on what metrics he's using by saying they are the #2 test equipment company and want to be #1.  That's great to say that and all but Siglent is not Keysight or Keithley/Tek/Fluke or Lecroy.  Yes I do realize some of those companies re-badged Siglent stuff but it's not their flagships by a very wide margin.  Making general claims like that without qualifying them is a little dishonest in my opinion.  He's an engineer and he should know that the details matter.

(Bear with me here.  I promise I'm not making fun of him.  I swear)

At around 30:35 he said the phrase....
"... some young guy"
and I just about laughed myself to death.
It only would have been better if he had said "won hwung lo"

 

Offline 6581

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #66 on: December 04, 2015, 03:11:59 am »
Thank you for the subtitles. Finally I can understand what the Aussie interviewer is saying.  ;)

Great interview. Balanced questions, interesting topics. Some of the questions touched areas where I wasn't expecting an answer and still Mr. Eric Qin showed openness (some companies wouldn't probably reveal number of R&D for example), and was altogether close to ground - proud of his company in a very subtly humble way. Definitely improved my respect to this company.

Thank you Dave & especially your honor quest, Mr. Eric Qin.
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #67 on: December 04, 2015, 03:27:03 am »
Do we know if Siglent does their own manufacturing or uses contract manufacturers?  I would kind of assume contract, but for test instruments quality could be an issue.

I asked this afterwards.
PCB assembly is done outside, but everything else in in-house. System assembly, test ,programming, calibration, packaging etc.
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #68 on: December 04, 2015, 03:39:30 am »
Do we know if Siglent does their own manufacturing or uses contract manufacturers?  I would kind of assume contract, but for test instruments quality could be an issue.
If you want the best quality board assembly its best to go to people who do nothing but board assembly, and have a reputation for good results. They deal with the volumes needed to achieve the polish and consistency you are looking for. In test equipment manufacture you won't.
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #69 on: December 04, 2015, 03:47:04 am »
Do we know if Siglent does their own manufacturing or uses contract manufacturers?  I would kind of assume contract, but for test instruments quality could be an issue.

So far I have never heard any Chinese electronics companies, except for these super factories like Foxconn, make their PCBs in house.

PCB production line requires very high production volume to maintain profitable.

And, even with cheap and not so well controlled PCB outsourcing, product quality won't suffer much as long as you do not go to many gigahertz.

For high frequency applications, most large PCB fabs offer Rogers substrate and electropolished impedance controlled trace, as well as other advanced processes.
 

Offline photon

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #70 on: December 04, 2015, 04:06:14 am »
This is quite a coup for EEVBlog - CEOs from anywhere don't tend to do this, unless it's with the big guys and rarely even then.

Keysight invited me to the US (paid for) to tour their facility and blog it and interview people etc, and I asked if the CEO would like to be interviewed. They went and asked and got a big fat NOPE. Only did interviews for Fortune 500 or *insert big name here*. I wasn't even on the radar.

I doubt the Keysight CEO is anywhere near Qin as regards technical chops.
 

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #71 on: December 04, 2015, 04:15:11 am »
If you want the best quality board assembly its best to go to people who do nothing but board assembly, and have a reputation for good results. They deal with the volumes needed to achieve the polish and consistency you are looking for.

That's exactly what Eric said. They work with a huge volume high tech assembler that knows how to do a quality job consistently.
 

Online coppice

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #72 on: December 04, 2015, 04:26:27 am »
Do we know if Siglent does their own manufacturing or uses contract manufacturers?  I would kind of assume contract, but for test instruments quality could be an issue.

So far I have never heard any Chinese electronics companies, except for these super factories like Foxconn, make their PCBs in house.

PCB production line requires very high production volume to maintain profitable.

And, even with cheap and not so well controlled PCB outsourcing, product quality won't suffer much as long as you do not go to many gigahertz.

For high frequency applications, most large PCB fabs offer Rogers substrate and electropolished impedance controlled trace, as well as other advanced processes.
You need to look around China more. Assembling boards in house is pretty common, and often doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If the volumes aren't high enough the boards end up being hand assembled, because fully automated lines are impractical for anything but high volumes. Rising costs are changing things, and even a lot of highly automated assembly is being driven out of China to Vietnam and other countries. However, right now you can still find lots of low to medium volume in house assembly work in China.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 04:28:10 am by coppice »
 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #73 on: December 04, 2015, 04:34:35 am »
Do we know if Siglent does their own manufacturing or uses contract manufacturers?  I would kind of assume contract, but for test instruments quality could be an issue.

So far I have never heard any Chinese electronics companies, except for these super factories like Foxconn, make their PCBs in house.

PCB production line requires very high production volume to maintain profitable.

And, even with cheap and not so well controlled PCB outsourcing, product quality won't suffer much as long as you do not go to many gigahertz.

For high frequency applications, most large PCB fabs offer Rogers substrate and electropolished impedance controlled trace, as well as other advanced processes.
You need to look around China more. Assembling boards in house is pretty common, and often doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If the volumes aren't high enough the boards end up being hand assembled, because fully automated lines are impractical for anything but high volumes. Rising costs are changing things, and even a lot of highly automated assembly is being driven out of China to Vietnam and other countries. However, right now you can still find lots of low to medium volume in house assembly work in China.

Assembling in house is very common. I meant the fabrication of PCB itself, not PCBA.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #74 on: December 04, 2015, 08:19:44 am »
Making a courtesy visit helps to keep up appearances but doesn't solve the underlying issues. By having their CEO visit Dave Siglent did nothing to improve their products and yet people are cheering  :wtf: Come on guys don't get fooled by seeing shiny beads and mirrors!!
As I remember the visit had been arranged well before the ebay shenanigans.
Correct, its been on the cards way before that incident.
IMHO the Ebay incident is just one of many incidents. The biggest issue Siglent has is with the firmware hence my question on how Siglent is going to improve that. As Wuerstchenhund already noted: Siglent isn't a new kid on the block and in the interview the CEO also told they had to work 5 times longer on their first oscilloscope than they expected so it is really hard to defend why they have neglected their firmware department so much. The CEO knows firmware takes long and yet he has not taken proper action.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Gabri74

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #75 on: December 04, 2015, 08:54:19 am »
At one time he mentioned that they are using Linux in some of their products,
but I can't find any reference to this nor any link to source code in their site.
Maybe my google-fu is not strong enough...
It would be really interesting to see what kernel and rootfs the are using...
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #76 on: December 04, 2015, 12:03:01 pm »
The firmware is quite a large part of the value of the goods.
Why would we expect that they would reveal the source code? 
It isn't advertised as Open Source in any way, is it?
 

Offline @rt

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #77 on: December 04, 2015, 12:25:49 pm »
Hats off. I’m impressed.

They need an artist. The stuff on the bench looks unrelated to each other.
Give me his number and I’ll fix it for them.
This is how to make a bunch of equipment that belongs together.
http://www.yaesu-museum.com/a_ja6nka-yaesu.jpg
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #78 on: December 04, 2015, 01:02:53 pm »
PCB assembly is done outside, but everything else in in-house. System assembly, test ,programming, calibration, packaging etc.
Who gets the most important job of all - rubbing part numbers from the ICs? Is that out sourced or due to its sensitive nature kept in house? Is there a job description in China for "Parts obfuscator" and is there training on how to do this effectively? Perhaps apprenticeships or vocational qualifications?  :-DD
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #79 on: December 04, 2015, 02:11:44 pm »
Hats off. I’m impressed.

They need an artist. The stuff on the bench looks unrelated to each other.
...
You are right two times here :).
Great products, but could use someone to beautify 'm and give them a house style
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #80 on: December 04, 2015, 02:28:39 pm »
At one time he mentioned that they are using Linux in some of their products,
but I can't find any reference to this nor any link to source code in their site.
Maybe my google-fu is not strong enough...
It would be really interesting to see what kernel and rootfs the are using...
I understand they used Windows CE, Linux, and their own custom OS, but currently all development is Linux based.

I will have to watch it again now it's been subtitled as I only got half of it first watch.
 

Offline GNU_Ninja

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #81 on: December 04, 2015, 02:54:40 pm »
Who gets the most important job of all - rubbing part numbers from the ICs? Is that out sourced or due to its sensitive nature kept in house? Is there a job description in China for "Parts obfuscator" and is there training on how to do this effectively? Perhaps apprenticeships or vocational qualifications?  :-DD

Damn! I nearly laughed my coffee all over my workstation  :-DD

To be fair, it's not just Chinese companies doing that.
 

Offline free_electron

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #82 on: December 04, 2015, 05:47:12 pm »
Dave; if someone provides a YouTube compatible English subtitles-file, would you attach it to the vid? It's a straightforward upload into the "edit video" interface in YouTube. Mr Qin has great English, and I'm not sure if it's worth it, especially if it's added a day or two after the fact, but some viewers may benefit from it.

Yes I can do that.
Not sure if he would be offended, because I think his English is decent too. But could be hard for others who don't have English as a first language to understand.
I once saw a chinese man trying to explain something to a japanese man , both with only a rudimentary gtasp and very bad pronunciation... eyewatering ...

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Offline @rt

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #83 on: December 04, 2015, 06:26:18 pm »
It’s the new girl that does it :D
PCB assembly is done outside, but everything else in in-house. System assembly, test ,programming, calibration, packaging etc.
Who gets the most important job of all - rubbing part numbers from the ICs? Is that out sourced or due to its sensitive nature kept in house? Is there a job description in China for "Parts obfuscator" and is there training on how to do this effectively? Perhaps apprenticeships or vocational qualifications?  :-DD
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #84 on: December 04, 2015, 06:44:12 pm »
Perhaps that "new girl" who submitted the DMCA TakeDown got busted down to Nomenclature Obfuscator after the Ebay debacle.  She seems more suitable for that kind of task.
 

Offline gardner

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #85 on: December 05, 2015, 12:11:15 am »
Who gets the most important job of all - rubbing part numbers from the ICs?

I wonder if there is a contract manufacturing angle to this.  Does obscuring the part number help ensure that your contract manufacturer uses the parts you give him instead of sourcing crappy knock-offs from the night market the next street over?  Or do they do the rubbing off after board assembly?
--- Gardner
 

Offline nixfu

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #86 on: December 05, 2015, 12:22:49 am »
Peeked on the chinese site.
Price starts at 36800 CNY ==> 5740,- USD.
Not exactly a bargain...
We know the "buck", I´m curious about the "bang".

$5700 US.   

Disappointing.   Does no other company have the guts to challenge Rigol in the ~$1000 digital SA market?

« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 12:35:03 am by nixfu »
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #87 on: December 05, 2015, 12:30:40 am »
Siglent will remain number 2 if they can't beat the number 1 from its spot. Which I took as Rigol rather than Key$ight. Apples and Oranges guys! Though it's fairly obvious that Siglent is only one single character change and a shuffle to Agilent.
 

Offline TheSteve

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #88 on: December 05, 2015, 01:11:09 am »
Perhaps that "new girl" who submitted the DMCA TakeDown got busted down to Nomenclature Obfuscator after the Ebay debacle.  She seems more suitable for that kind of task.

I dunno - maybe she will mess up and remove the part #'s on jellybean 74 series parts while leaving the good stuff exposed for all to see!
VE7FM
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #89 on: December 05, 2015, 01:26:40 am »
Siglent will remain number 2 if they can't beat the number 1 from its spot. Which I took as Rigol rather than Key$ight. Apples and Oranges guys! Though it's fairly obvious that Siglent is only one single character change and a shuffle to Agilent.

#2 what?... #1 what?
Sales?  Not likely.
Performance?  Nope.
Reliability?  Nope.
Support?  Nope.
Customer service?  Nope.

Siglent is the #1 company named Siglent in the whole world test equipment market!  They are so far ahead in this regard that no one will EVER catch them!  They single handedly innovated the entire company named Siglent industry!

Realistically Rigol is still a joke when it comes to high quality equipment, so if they consider them #1 what does that make Siglent.  Just because they make cheap stuff, and maybe sell a lot of cheap stuff, that doesn't make them a market leader.  No one is going to pay $5700 for Siglent quality stuff.  If you proposed that to your boss you would be laughed at.

I'm not saying there isn't a place for Siglent.  The stuff they make is great value for hobby use and I agree it really does open up a lot of equipment to people that previously couldn't afford it before.  That alone is killer.  I have one of their cheap function generators at my house.  Just quit the marketing BS about how you want to be #1 in the industry (whatever that means).
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #90 on: December 05, 2015, 02:58:57 am »
Dave; if someone provides a YouTube compatible English subtitles-file, would you attach it to the vid? It's a straightforward upload into the "edit video" interface in YouTube. Mr Qin has great English, and I'm not sure if it's worth it, especially if it's added a day or two after the fact, but some viewers may benefit from it.

Quote
Kudos to Mr. Qin for making the effort to accommodate us "foreigners".

Totally agree!

I was trying to have it on in the background while working on something else, but I was having to concentrate too much on what he was saying.  I haven't worked with many Chinese English speakers, so my understanding of how the accent inflects upon English isn't as good as say Vietnamese or Korean (much more common where I live)
The larger the government, the smaller the citizen.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #91 on: December 05, 2015, 03:30:29 am »
The firmware is quite a large part of the value of the goods.
Why would we expect that they would reveal the source code? 
It isn't advertised as Open Source in any way, is it?

If they're using Linux and the immense amount of userspace code required to support it, the license requires certain things. You should read the GPL some time.
 

Offline rs20

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #92 on: December 05, 2015, 03:32:40 am »
#2 what?... #1 what?

"I think in the current time, if we calculate the quantity of oscilloscopes, I believe we're maybe around number 2?"

He clearly stated he was referring to number-of-oscilloscopes (as opposed to total sales, which would be total-$-value-of-everything). Obviously it is a metric that favours a low-cost producer, but an impressive achievement nevertheless.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #93 on: December 05, 2015, 04:26:11 pm »
On the About page of the Siglent website, there is a brief Company History:
http://www.siglent.com/ENs/about.aspx?id=2

In 2005 they launched their very first scope with model number ADS7000.

This made me curious, so I started googling about this model number, as I wanted to find out more about the specs of their very first scope, and I also wanted to find out how it looked like :)

First I was googling on "Siglent ADS7000" and could not find this scope.
But then I realized that they started as an OEM company in the early days, and that the scope might have been released under a different brand.

One of the queries resulted in Atten but a different model number.
Then I realized that ADS might come from Atten Digital Scope. So maybe it is indeed an Atten.

So then I googled on "Atten ADS7000", and found several results.

http://toolboom.com/en/Digital-Oscilloscope-Atten-ADS7202SA.php

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-ATTEN-ADS7102-100MHz/413213_623867377.html

http://www.mondoplast.ro/eng/Digital-oscilloscope-Atten-ADS7102CAn-pg_ft-3289

https://books.google.no/books?id=-lZgBwAAQBAJ&pg=PA387&lpg=PA387&dq=atten+ads7202c&source=bl&ots=IWBV_0A3po&sig=TckMAZSm7H4Y5e_jyKtvlKUD1Uk&hl=no&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjM1O_Uj8XJAhWl8HIKHWccAjMQ6AEIKDAB#v=onepage&q=atten%20ads7202c&f=false

The Atten ADS7000 looked really good actually!
They even had some color models. See the images below :)







Even more googling, I stumbled on the following post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/rigol-ds1102e-vs-xytron-dso1102cal-aka-%28atten-ads1102cal%29/msg172409/#msg172409

Very interesting! Apparently Atten and Siglent have the same company history. It is a 1:1 duplicate.
So they both have the same roots from DinYoung technologies Co.,Ltd.
But then at some point they split in two entities? Anybody who knows more about this?
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 04:29:08 pm by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline alan.green@gmail.com

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #94 on: December 06, 2015, 05:49:11 am »
Qin in Chinese reads as Chin, not Queen.

Yes, there are a few Chinese last names that are often mis-pronounced in the west. Qin should be pronounced as Chin or Tsin. I am surprised Eric didn't correct Dave on that (probably being polite).

Actually Tsin is better.

If you're going to pick on Dave's pronunciation of a Chinese surname, you'd better ask him to get the tone right too :P. FWIW I'm sure Mr Qin has suffered through many brave attempts by English speakers to say his name, and would have known what he was in for if he had watched even one mailbag.

Dave: Loved this episode. Am going to watch it again now that it has subtitles. Thanks!

 

Offline calzap

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #95 on: December 06, 2015, 06:16:11 am »
I've lived most of my life in Yolo County, California.  Until this thread, I hadn't wondered where the name came from, so I looked it up.  Here is the real meaning of Yolo, courtesy of counties.org:

YOLO
Created 1850. In the original act of 1850, the name was spelled “Yola.” Yolo is an Indian name variously believed to be a corruption of an Indian tribal name Yo-loy meaning “a place abounding in rushes” or of the name of the Indian chief, Yodo, or of the Indian village of Yodoi.
------------------

Could it also be the origin of Yoda?

Mike in Yolo County, California


 

Offline analogNewbie

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #96 on: December 06, 2015, 12:37:12 pm »

Very interesting! Apparently Atten and Siglent have the same company history. It is a 1:1 duplicate.
So they both have the same roots from DinYoung technologies Co.,Ltd.
But then at some point they split in two entities? Anybody who knows more about this?

Siglent = Atten.

Dirty history about Atten:
http://translate.google.com.hk/translate?act=url&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&u=http://www.amobbs.com/thread-3540497-1-1.html
 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #97 on: December 06, 2015, 03:00:36 pm »
Wow, I've never seen this before....



I have no problems with this page, my ISP is TWC.
 

Offline Richard Crowley

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #98 on: December 06, 2015, 03:08:44 pm »
I have no problems with this page, my ISP is TWC.
The error doesn't say that my ISP doesn't allow access to the website.
It says that GOOGLE is "unable to access".
Is this an artifact of the infamous Chinese web censorship?
 

Offline analogNewbie

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #99 on: December 06, 2015, 03:16:50 pm »
I have no problems with this page, my ISP is TWC.
The error doesn't say that my ISP doesn't allow access to the website.
It says that GOOGLE is "unable to access".
Is this an artifact of the infamous Chinese web censorship?

replace the "translate.google.com.hk" in the url to "translate.google.com"
 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #100 on: December 06, 2015, 04:24:43 pm »
Google is randomly blocked in China. By now, I can not access the page anymore. Maybe later it will became available again as it was.

But it does not make sense. The GFW blocks outgoing connections to Google, not incoming connections, by far what I know. Maybe I am wrong.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #101 on: December 07, 2015, 02:04:58 pm »
Atten is one of the earliest low cost soldering tool mfg, they copy most models by Hakko, with exception thar 858 series is possibly actually designed by them.

Also, they make power supplies. I believe only years later did they start marketing test gears.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #102 on: December 07, 2015, 04:33:03 pm »
I really liked the structure of the interview and the type of questions.
All questions were really relevant and the order they were built up, worked very well!

Cool to hear that he started the company with fellow students.

Some questions unanswered :)

1. How did they come up with the name, and how long did it actually take them to come up with this name :) My guess is that Siglent comes from Signal and Intelligent.
But still would be nice to hear other alternatives that made the first rounds before they decided on the final name. Apparently the name took really off, as the sales increased after they moved from an OEM business model to a branded business model.

2. Easter eggs in Siglent products. Maybe the CEO put in some easter eggs himself in the first model.
Well, at least they had 2,5 years to add one in :) And maybe even today there are some easter eggs left in the newer products.

3. Financing. How they pulled this together in the very early days of the factory.
Did they go to several banks for getting a business loan. Insight on the process back then, and maybe also some insights on the business climate in China today. Do they have incubators in China today? Is it as easy as in the US today or at least similar? Silicon valley spirit, Stealth phase approach, etc.

4. Siglent's take on High-Level-Synthesis and an "All-in-C" based design flow, where the hardware logic is not written in VHDL by hardware engineers, but developed by software engineers, who synthesize the high-level source code into RTL.

5. Siglent's take on Xilinx Zynq 7000 series (inspired by GW-Instek in Taiwan).

6. Engineering education in China. If the amount of engineering students is increasing. Popular engineering schools. Competition between universities in research papers. In Europe some countries are facing challenges as number of engineering students is declining: "Everybody likes an iPhone, but nobody likes to make one".

7. Factory tour in Siglent. Would be cool if this can be organized. To get a glimpse of how scopes are put together. There is a guy on Internet who does lots of these factory tours for Android tablet devices (armdevices.net). Still AFAIK I have not seen a factory tour of a Chinese scope factory.

8. Where does Siglent buy their relative silent fans? Apparently they know, and maybe if they reveal, someone can pass the address on to Rigol :) And Where does Siglent buy the factory-remove screen protectors? Rigol should have them on their screens as well :)

9. Siglent's view on having a video output connector on test equipment. Why not have an HDMI connector on the oscilloscope and the spectrum analyzer. Or both VGA and HDMI to support older video projectors in the class room.

10. Licensing. Whether Siglent licenses some SW libraries and IP from other companies (algorithms, RTL IP blocks, patents on signal processing, interleaving methods, etc.) in their products?

11. Spectrum analyzer. Do they sell them in Europe? I could not find on their website.

Maybe these questions can be answered in a follow-up interview, or can be addressed by email exchange between the Australian interviewer (aka Dave) and the Chinese CEO (aka Yolo) :)

One more question to my earlier posted list:

12. The first oscilloscope that they worked on in the initial days. What hardware architecture did they use? Details on the FPGA, ADC, etc. What reference designs did they use (FPGA, analog front-end)?
How did they design the analog front-end in the first place? Are their books available with examples? =)
Which design tools did they use for the PCB (PCB schematic, PCB layout)? Which design tools did they use for the software (FPGA design tools, MCU design tools, RTOS tools). Which design tools did they use for the housing (CAD tools)? All this software is very expensive, so maybe they did this on the university campus, in order to make use of student licenses? In case they did not do everything internal, and outsourced, they could give some more details on the type of partners which they worked with. Even if they were good at the hardware and the software, engineers typically are not experts in CAD tools to make housing, and to make everything fit nicely together. What was the size of their first production run? And last but not least, what was actually the model number of their very first oscilloscope? Are the specs and pictures still available? Did that one run the proprietary RTOS which they were talking about? Which RTOS? :) All this information is from 2002, so it should not be sensitive anymore. It can be really educating for other startup newbies and electronic students. Siglent most likely will not have an issue with sharing some more info on this front, as it seems that Siglent is very pro electronic engineering education, given that their company mission is to make test equipment affordable for students and beginners. Moreover it will be free marketing for their company indirectly. Maybe the CEO, should write a book, that includes pictures from the early days, with the fancy title "The making of Siglent" providing insights from the early days - how a small Chinese startup has grown out to one of the top 3 Chinese test equipment manufacturers" :)
 

Offline lm3baker

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #103 on: December 08, 2015, 04:37:43 am »

Very interesting! Apparently Atten and Siglent have the same company history. It is a 1:1 duplicate.
So they both have the same roots from DinYoung technologies Co.,Ltd.
But then at some point they split in two entities? Anybody who knows more about this?

Siglent = Atten.


Certainly seems that Siglent was called DinYoung technologies Co.,Ltd. and made scopes for Atten, but not sure if they were an OEM supplier to Atten or an actual subsidiary?
http://www.09635.com/company/2041764.aspx Says they are an Atten group subsidiary, but their wiki (??) page http://baike.baidu.com/view/8055878.htm does not mention Atten at all, and Atten no longer sell scopes. Maybe a question for the CEO, what happened between these two companies?

Siglent also appear to be / have been an OEM for LeCroy.

edit: the forum software apparently does not support either unicode in general or Chinese characters specifically.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 04:39:26 am by lm3baker »
 

Offline drussell

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #104 on: December 08, 2015, 06:33:31 am »
If they're using Linux and the immense amount of userspace code required to support it, the license requires certain things. You should read the GPL some time.

Huh?

The fact that the Linux kernel is GPL means that if you use it and/or modify it for your own purposes and embed it in your own product you need to make that public, yes, but it doesn't mean that every application you run under it must also be made compeletely open and public.  That would be just silly.

Of course, those of us that are actually sane avoid all those shenanigans in the first place by basing our products and spending our time and effort on things like BSD which are actually, truly, free and ignore the GPL brouhaha, but I digress....
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 06:36:42 am by drussell »
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #105 on: December 08, 2015, 07:28:50 am »
If they're using Linux and the immense amount of userspace code required to support it, the license requires certain things. You should read the GPL some time.

Huh?

The fact that the Linux kernel is GPL means that if you use it and/or modify it for your own purposes and embed it in your own product you need to make that public, yes, but it doesn't mean that every application you run under it must also be made compeletely open and public.  That would be just silly.

That's not what I said, now is it?
 

Offline rs20

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #106 on: December 08, 2015, 07:38:56 am »
That's not what I said, now is it?
:palm: This conversation might be progressed more constructively if you clarified your point. For example, specifying what "certain things" you were referring to.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #107 on: December 08, 2015, 07:45:17 am »
That's not what I said, now is it?
:palm: This conversation might be progressed more constructively if you clarified your point. For example, specifying what "certain things" you were referring to.

Or if people didn't make silly assumptions. All I said is that the license has certain requirements. I did not say 'you must release all the code'.

Must I really copy and paste the contents of the GPL here?
« Last Edit: December 08, 2015, 07:46:59 am by Monkeh »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #108 on: December 08, 2015, 07:52:09 am »

Very interesting! Apparently Atten and Siglent have the same company history. It is a 1:1 duplicate.
So they both have the same roots from DinYoung technologies Co.,Ltd.
But then at some point they split in two entities? Anybody who knows more about this?

Siglent = Atten.


Certainly seems that Siglent was called DinYoung technologies Co.,Ltd. and made scopes for Atten, but not sure if they were an OEM supplier to Atten or an actual subsidiary?
http://www.09635.com/company/2041764.aspx Says they are an Atten group subsidiary, but their wiki (??) page http://baike.baidu.com/view/8055878.htm does not mention Atten at all, and Atten no longer sell scopes. Maybe a question for the CEO, what happened between these two companies?
Yeah right.
Atten scopes in Aussie:
http://www.altronics.com.au/test-measurement/oscilloscopes/

Quote
Siglent also appear to be / have been an OEM for LeCroy.
And many others worldwide.
BK Precision for example:
http://www.bkprecision.com/products/oscilloscopes/2190D-100-mhz-1-gsa-s-2-ch-digital-storage-oscilloscope.html

At one time I grey marketed Atten but their support could not compare with Siglent so I jumped ship and was offered a distributorship after closing a 10+ unit sale for them.

Now none of my old web links to Atten sites work.  :palm:
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline rs20

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #109 on: December 08, 2015, 07:54:59 am »
Must I really copy and paste the contents of the GPL here?

If you think Siglent has fulfilled its obligations under the GPL, then your comment seem awfully random. If you think Siglent has failed to fulfil its obligations under the GPL, it seems a one-sentence summary of that failure would be helpful to advance this conversation past your games?
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #110 on: December 08, 2015, 08:04:14 am »
Must I really copy and paste the contents of the GPL here?

If you think Siglent has fulfilled its obligations under the GPL, then your comment seem awfully random. If you think Siglent has failed to fulfil its obligations under the GPL, it seems a one-sentence summary of that failure would be helpful to advance this conversation past your games?

Who's playing games?

I suggested Richard read the GPL to understand the post immediately above his. Nothing more.
 

Offline alan.green@gmail.com

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #111 on: December 08, 2015, 10:00:47 am »
Now none of my old web links to Atten sites work.  :palm:

Atten rebranded to Gratten for their scopes and analyzers. Maybe try your links to the Gratten site instead?

http://en.gratten.cn/about_us/
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #112 on: December 08, 2015, 02:22:02 pm »
I think that the name ATTEN is much nicer than GRATTEN.

Maybe they still use ATTEN on their actual scopes, as the name GRATTEN is too long to put on the sticker :)
 

Online coppice

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #113 on: December 08, 2015, 02:33:07 pm »
I think that the name ATTEN is much nicer than GRATTEN.

Maybe they still use ATTEN on their actual scopes, as the name GRATTEN is too long to put on the sticker :)
Among scope makers GRATTEN is obviously the big cheese.
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #114 on: December 08, 2015, 05:16:51 pm »
Now none of my old web links to Atten sites work.  :palm:

Atten rebranded to Gratten for their scopes and analyzers. Maybe try your links to the Gratten site instead?

http://en.gratten.cn/about_us/

I thought this was a joke. In the UK, mums Grattan catalogue was a famous resource to millions of teenage boys.

At least in the days before the internet. ;)
 

Offline AlxDroidDev

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #115 on: December 09, 2015, 02:05:30 pm »
I just watched the interview, motivated by the other thread (the eBay ordeal).

I have to say I found Mr. Qin a very nice person, very well prepared for the interview and with an honest face. His presence and effort in trying to communicate dignified his brand. I would easily have watched another 15-20 minutes of this interview. One question I wish Dave had asked is what is Siglent's plans to expand to other regions, specially South America.

Kudos to Dave for bringing Mr. Qin and I hope this type of video becomes a trend. It's things like this video that are making EEVBlog stablish itself as the most influential EE (in all levels from hobbist to pros) vlog and forum on the internet today.

Yolo, ya!
"The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from." (Andrew S. Tanenbaum)
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #116 on: December 10, 2015, 06:49:00 am »
Kudos to Dave for bringing Mr. Qin

Besides, I'd be curious to know how this interview came about.
Was Dave asking to interview some Siglent staff, or was the event proposed by them?

In any case, thumbs up to Dave for this very interesting interview and to Mr. Eric Qin for making the effort and leave his business behind to go talk to that crazy ozzie blogger  :-+
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: EEVblog #826 - Siglent CEO Eric Qin Visits The EEVblog Lab
« Reply #117 on: June 25, 2020, 08:46:43 pm »
Did you ask the Siglent Founder and CEO about the plagiarism and the lawsuit in court? :)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/were-siglent-and-atten-the-same-company-back-in-the-days/

Siglent Founder and CEO Eric Qin visited the EEVblog Lab and very kindly agreed to sit down a quick impromptu chat.
http://siglent.com/ens/


 


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