Author Topic: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED  (Read 57408 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline StuUK

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 388
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #150 on: October 27, 2016, 10:27:44 am »
http://www.wattwaybycolas.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Wattway-DP-GB-June2016.pdf

English version of press kit.
With some interview samples of some, i thought, serious people.

I can certainly imagine the idealistic conditions they did their truck tests with. Steady straight line, constant speed, kind of like the ice road truckers going over those lakes, steady as she goes..... What about the high speed blowouts, the odd crash, something heavy/sharp falling off the back etc... Eventually after spending stupid money proving its not-viable it will fade into obscurity and they will move on....
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29672
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
 

Offline void_error

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 669
  • Country: ro
  • I can transistor...
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #152 on: December 01, 2016, 06:05:16 am »
I'm wondering why didn't they go small scale first and replace a door mat with a solar panel and see it doesn't work, then ditch the solar roadway idea from the start. At least a door mat won't have trucks drive over it.
Trust me, I'm NOT an engineer.
 

Online rsjsouza

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3389
  • Country: us
  • Eternally curious
    • Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #153 on: December 01, 2016, 08:58:34 pm »
Oh gee, it's not viable, who would have thought?

http://www.pv-magazine.com/news/details/beitrag/frances-solar-road-international-solar-experts-give-their-analysis_100027057/#axzz4RNwbFzkY

From the article:
Quote
“Solar roads in France are much less efficient, and more costly, than PV on rooftops and parking structures, and in PV power plants,”
Quote
“Even if you're short of land, you'll put solar over roads, not on them,”
Those were almost exactly the first two sentences my engineer wife told me when I mentioned this to her a while ago.

But the insanity must press on:
Quote
Yet with all of these challenges and economic viability worries of the project, Ségolène Royal announced plans to build 1,000 kilometers of solar roads.
Vbe - vídeo blog eletrônico http://videos.vbeletronico.com

Oh, the "whys" of the datasheets... The information is there not to be an axiomatic truth, but instead each speck of data must be slowly inhaled while carefully performing a deep search inside oneself to find the true metaphysical sense...
 

Online Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 9218
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #154 on: December 02, 2016, 12:54:06 am »
Read the article.

Are we surprised?
 

Offline Lockon Stratos

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 39
  • Country: hu
 

Offline jancumps

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 1203
  • Country: be
  • New Low
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #156 on: January 13, 2017, 11:41:23 am »
http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/12/worlds-first-solar-road-opens-in-france/
 :palm:
[îmg]https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/eevblog-850-french-wattway-solar-roadways-bullshit/?action=dlattach;attach=284939;image[/img]
 

Offline WastelandTek

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 365
  • Country: 00
I'm new here, but I tend to be pretty gregarious, so if I'm out of my lane please call me out.
 

Offline drussell

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1099
  • Country: ca
  • Hardcore Geek
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #158 on: August 10, 2017, 07:11:36 am »
Is there somewhere on the BBC website where you can answer the question in their headline with a resounding "NO!"   ? ? ?   :palm:
 

Offline Domagoj T

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 278
  • Country: hr
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #159 on: August 10, 2017, 12:44:44 pm »
Is there somewhere on the BBC website where you can answer the question in their headline with a resounding "NO!"   ? ? ?   :palm:
No need for that.
Betteridge has already done that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge%27s_law_of_headlines

Just a short quote from Wikipedia article, by Andrew Marr:
Quote
To a busy journalist hunting for real information a question mark means 'don't bother reading this bit'.[
 

Offline grumpydoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2681
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #160 on: August 10, 2017, 01:18:09 pm »
At least the WattWay only wants to light a few streetlights, not melt snow or illuminate the road with fairy lights.

It's still a stupid amount to pay for modest power output.
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29672
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #161 on: August 10, 2017, 02:47:37 pm »
At least the WattWay only wants to light a few streetlights, not melt snow or illuminate the road with fairy lights.

It's like chalk and cheese. WattWay are a real road engineering company and have done their best to make a viable solar road.
Solar Roadways on the other hand with all it's wankery is just a joke from utterly clueless and delusional people who don't have one ounce of practical engineering consideration in their brain.

Quote
It's still a stupid amount to pay for modest power output.

Yep. Even with probably the best company in the world doing it, with surely the most practical implementation possible, it's still a dumb and essentially impractical idea compared to regular solar.
 

Online Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7422
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #162 on: August 14, 2017, 10:36:24 pm »
According to the BBC TV programme "Click", there's a company that is working to develop this solar roadway into a system that recharges electric cars while they drive along it as well and apparently there is a new type of solar cell that is only about 3mm thick and is bonded onto a steel plate, so this may not be as dumb as it sounds after all. I for one am keeping an open mind on this, after all, space travel a few years was thought to be impossible let alone put a man on the moon and people fell about laughing at the thought of it, BUT it has happened. While Dave is able to debunk this with technology we are currently aware of, may be tomorrow there could be a break through into new technology that could make it a reality?
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 9218
  • Country: au
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #163 on: August 15, 2017, 03:58:36 am »
... may be tomorrow there could be a break through into new technology that could make it a reality?

Always a possibility - but unless there is something intrinsically tied to the format, you need to broaden your thinking.

Any improvement in solar technology that could make the roadways idea seem viable would also translate into more cost effective NON road solar.

For example (just using arbitrary numbers for this exercise...) let's say a solar roadway solution were to cost $10 per (whatever unit you want to use) and a solar farm $1.  Getting the solar roadway solution down to $1 per whatever doesn't make it viable - because the solar farm alternative will then come in at 10 cents, having benefited from the same technological advances.


If somebody wants to push the solar road idea, then I'm happy to let them have a go, but not with public funding - unless there is a true, identifiable engineering benefit.  (I wait to be amazed ... but I'm not holding my breath.)

Political agendas, hype, marketing and vested interests don't count.
 
The following users thanked this post: nugglix

Online Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7422
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #164 on: August 15, 2017, 06:46:33 am »
Well that's why I said I was keeping an open mind on it. Maybe they can see other advantages / spinoffs from it that could make it viable and that is why this test track has been built. Time will tell.

Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk

Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline jonovid

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 777
  • Country: au
    • JONOVID
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #165 on: August 15, 2017, 07:31:38 am »
... may be tomorrow there could be a break through into new technology that could make it a reality?

Always a possibility - but unless there is something intrinsically tied to the format, you need to broaden your thinking.

Any improvement in solar technology that could make the roadways idea seem viable would also translate into more cost effective NON road solar.

For example (just using arbitrary numbers for this exercise...) let's say a solar roadway solution were to cost $10 per (whatever unit you want to use) and a solar farm $1.  Getting the solar roadway solution down to $1 per whatever doesn't make it viable - because the solar farm alternative will then come in at 10 cents, having benefited from the same technological advances.


If somebody wants to push the solar road idea, then I'm happy to let them have a go, but not with public funding - unless there is a true, identifiable engineering benefit.  (I wait to be amazed ... but I'm not holding my breath.)

Political agendas, hype, marketing and vested interests don't count.

I suspect that the people behind this type of project, are secretly pushing Political agendas, hype, marketing and vested interests.
like scientology's E-meter it works, but is it a toy?

on the positive side of the argument.
they are many applications where embedded solar road tiles in part of a highway may just be the best solution to the problem of powering illuminated LED road side marking like cat's eye's , illuminated road signs & Emergency phones on remote highways,
where underground power cable costs are prohibitive given the long distances.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 08:35:44 am by jonovid »
Hobby of evil genius      basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline FloFo

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 18
  • Country: de
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #166 on: August 15, 2017, 08:57:56 am »
they are many applications where embedded solar road tiles in part of a highway may just be the best solution to the problem of powering illuminated LED road side marking like cat's eye's , illuminated road signs & Emergency phones on remote highways,
where underground power cable costs are prohibitive given the long distances.
If you already have the signs, why not put the solar cell on top of it (giving shade for the sign at the same time, increasing visibility). I know this is already done for off-grid sensor stations or park ticket vending systems, just use an existing solar technology on top of the pole you have to install anyways, cheaper and more efficient and no research in new, robust, non glare, non-slippery but still efficient solar cells needed ...
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9967
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #167 on: August 15, 2017, 12:30:36 pm »
they are many applications where embedded solar road tiles in part of a highway may just be the best solution to the problem

There are NO applications where putting a piece of glass in a road surface is better than putting it on a stick at the side of the road.

of powering illuminated LED road side marking like cat's eye's

Cats eyes are powered by car headlamps, not electricity.

Emergency phones on remote highways,

Phones which are powered, how...?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 03:21:07 pm by Fungus »
 

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29672
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #168 on: August 15, 2017, 01:37:22 pm »
they are many applications where embedded solar road tiles in part of a highway may just be the best solution to the problem

There are NO applications where putting a piece of glass in a road surface is better than putting it on a stick at the side of the road.

This.
Although, I can imagine that aesthetics might be the only reason.
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9967
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #169 on: August 15, 2017, 03:22:20 pm »
There are NO applications where putting a piece of glass in a road surface is better than putting it on a stick at the side of the road.
I can imagine that aesthetics might be the only reason.

Also: "Politics"
 

Offline grumpydoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2681
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #170 on: August 15, 2017, 04:15:21 pm »
Cats eyes are powered by car headlamps, not electricity.

Those were installed locally a good few years back - the local low-life population stole the lot of them out of the road.

While they lasted they were very impressive, but obviously not thief-proof enough.
 

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9967
  • Country: 00
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #171 on: August 15, 2017, 05:28:13 pm »
Cats eyes are powered by car headlamps, not electricity.

Those were installed locally a good few years back - the local low-life population stole the lot of them out of the road.

While they lasted they were very impressive, but obviously not thief-proof enough.

I thought they were everywhere in the UK. I remember them being very useful when driving along country roads at night.

Have the Romanians started stealing those as well?
 

Offline grumpydoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2681
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #172 on: August 15, 2017, 06:15:52 pm »

I thought they were everywhere in the UK. I remember them being very useful when driving along country roads at night.

Have the Romanians started stealing those as well?
Cat's eyes, yes.

It's very noticeable when I drive in France that roads here do not have them.

But a while ago (several years) a test installation was made of some LED versions which reacted to vehicle headlight - I think that the power source was actually solar, not headlights, but they were a good bit brighter than normal cats eyes and very effective.

They all disappeared.
 
The following users thanked this post: Fungus

Offline SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15089
  • Country: za
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #173 on: August 15, 2017, 07:20:15 pm »
They have not been nicked here, and they are very effective. Solar powered yes, but with optics that mean the very bright LED light is directed almost all in one narrow cone down the road, and there are 2 emitters in the encapsulated block as well, one for forward and one back, so you have a white centre line  with a red line behind you, and yellow and red edge markers on the dual carriageway. Small and with what looks like a really effective lens assembly as well concentrating the ambient sunlight onto a small solar cell, and then probably a lithium cell for energy storage.  When the battery is getting low they change mode, from having a 200Hz or so pulse mode to having a 1Hz flashing mode to conserve power till daylight. They do light from sunset to sunrise though.

Still want to find one to take apart, but they are epoxied into the roadway itself in a casing.
 

Offline mikerj

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2099
  • Country: gb
Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« Reply #174 on: August 15, 2017, 10:54:10 pm »
I thought they were everywhere in the UK. I remember them being very useful when driving along country roads at night.

Not everywhere, lots of the smaller "B" roads or uncategorised roads don't have cats eyes.

I suspect grumpdoc is talking about the solar powered "active" cat's eyes that were introduced on some roads which actually had LEDs in them.  Quite an odd driving experience at night on an empty road, it's like something out of Tron.
 
The following users thanked this post: Fungus


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf