Author Topic: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED  (Read 57344 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BUSTED
« on: February 13, 2016, 06:31:19 am »
This time it's France and their governments ludicrous plan to install 1000km of Solar Roadways from French road building giant Colas Wattway.
Dave breaks down yet again why this is pie-in-the-sky bullshit.
Also an update on the 12 months test results of the SolaRoad.nl project in the Netherlands.

Rooftop solar panel output data:
http://pvoutput.org/aggregate.jsp?id=24667
http://pvoutput.org/aggregate.jsp?id=10682
http://pvoutput.org/aggregate.jsp?id=19770

Great article on this:
https://www.equities.com/news/france-s-solar-roads-plan-a-costly-inefficient-boondoggle

« Last Edit: February 15, 2016, 01:05:49 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline orion242

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #1 on: February 13, 2016, 07:01:59 am »
Good video.

Impressed these fraudsters can still get money for this crap idea.  Is this the new American dream?   Figure out some BS idea that has a hint of reality and milk investors for everything you can with fancy marketing?

What happens to these jokers went the house of cards finally falls?  Do they walk on to the next BS idea and repeat?
 

Offline RobertoLG

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2016, 07:32:31 am »
Martin Lorton is doing some research with diferent types of solar panels (small scale), with artificial light, trying to simulate sun light, I know it doen't have directly to do with the roadways, but I tought people would like to learn a bit more about the panell caracteristics and other stuff that affects performance, just poiting out ok?

here https://www.youtube.com/user/mjlorton
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2016, 07:46:10 am »
Engineering problems aside, I'm sure the Romanian cable thieves will appreciate all that neatly bundled roadside cabling.  :popcorn:
 

Offline nwvlab

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2016, 08:11:27 am »
Dave, I appreciate your videos, as you always provide numbers and also the references to them!

I'm still impressed that in 2016 there are people thinking that solar roadways can bring advantages :(

I wonder also how long is the energy payback for those devices (considering also maintenance, etc)... Maybe it is much longer than the device lifetime... therefore you possibly won't gain a single joule in making these roadways... what an eco-sustainable choice!

Could not be more feasible and advantageous a covered cycling road/walk way (it would be also better when it rains), with some solar panels on top ? I'm afraid that this would be still  less efficient that a proper solar power plant...

Cheers


Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2016, 09:28:39 am »
Now you have an extra panel, set it up to your roadway!

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2016, 10:55:14 am »
Could not be more feasible and advantageous a covered cycling road/walk way (it would be also better when it rains), with some solar panels on top ? I'm afraid that this would be still  less efficient that a proper solar power plant...

Yes! Almost anything you can think of is better than solar panels with trucks driving over them.

(...and this sort of thing has been discussed at great length in the other thread)

« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 11:09:22 am by Fungus »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2016, 10:56:00 am »
I wonder also how long is the energy payback for those devices (considering also maintenance, etc)... Maybe it is much longer than the device lifetime... therefore you possibly won't gain a single joule in making these roadways... what an eco-sustainable choice!

Yes, very likely the payback is negative.
Ground and roof systems are insanely reliable and last for decades almost maintenance free.
After 100+ years of road research and refinement, regular roads need fixing every few years, so can't imagine solar roads being any better. Almost certainly worse.

Quote
Could not be more feasible and advantageous a covered cycling road/walk way (it would be also better when it rains), with some solar panels on top ? I'm afraid that this would be still  less efficient that a proper solar power plant...

I showed this video at the end, they did it in  South Korea.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2016, 11:13:37 am »
How big would the electrical grid to take the power away from the roads to somewhere useful be?

I'd say at least as big as the existing power distribution grids in each country. Plus you'll need a lot of small inverters to boost the voltage up to a decent transmission level.

How much would that cost?


 

Online kripton2035

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2016, 11:42:49 am »
Dave, you should subtitle (in french) your video and send it to our french ministers...
we are used to politicians wasting money here, but yes they have found a new ecological way to do it for some more years...

Offline Guni

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #10 on: February 13, 2016, 11:50:13 am »
From our point of view, from engineering and economical point of view this is bullshit. But if we ask our-self who will get the money, who will get this contract ...?  You know it's not a black and white.
 

Offline Zbig

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #11 on: February 13, 2016, 12:33:14 pm »
Dave, you're overdoing that silly "head explodes" thing. Could you just stick to the old good facepalms, pretty please?  :D
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 12:37:15 pm by Zbig »
 

Online kripton2035

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #12 on: February 13, 2016, 01:00:24 pm »
From our point of view, from engineering and economical point of view this is bullshit. But if we ask our-self who will get the money, who will get this contract ...?  You know it's not a black and white.
simple: every people in france will pay a part of these solar roadways
and even I think that with europeans money flows, every citizen who pays taxes in europe will pay a small but will pay a part of these ...

Offline old gregg

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2016, 01:31:57 pm »
as always in France, they say loads of stuff but it may never see the daylight.

Quote
Dave, you should subtitle (in french) your video and send it to our french ministers...


like if they would care... ;D
 
 

Offline Dr. Frank

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2016, 01:42:39 pm »
Dave, that's a lively and competent video about this subject, again!

Your concerns will not be heard in France, or by the French minister, anyhow, because it's in English only..

Most French are reluctant to understand or speak English (and also German, of course), pity that... exceptions are the French members of this forum, of course.



Anyhow, this stupid plan will for sure be realized, as politicians are mostly too dumb to think problems through, and they are rarely competent, and advisory-resistant.

In Germany, we have similar half bred "green" energy / CO2 reduction activities, initiated by our famous 'We-Will-Manage-That' chancellor, Dr. phys. rer. nat (!) Angela Merkel.
That's the brute force switch to "regenerative" energy sources and battery powered cars.
Both concepts are still far away from complete practical and sustainable and stable realization, so both the energy supply, and also the batterized mobility will fail in a few years, or will be at least mostly inefficient and costly.

Frank
« Last Edit: February 13, 2016, 01:49:15 pm by Dr. Frank »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2016, 01:55:20 pm »
Dave, you should subtitle (in french) your video and send it to our french ministers...

If someone wants to provide the French subtitle file then I can upload it.
 

Offline TinkerFan

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2016, 03:05:20 pm »
Dave in rage mode is just an awful lot of fun :popcorn:
Can only be topped by solar roadways WITH Dave
"A good scientist is a person with original ideas. A good engineer is a person who makes a design that works with as few original ideas as possible. There are no prima donnas in engineering." - Freeman Dyson
 

Offline wblock

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2016, 03:15:36 pm »
Every one of these should link to that Korean solar road as an example of a practical way to use solar panels with roads.

And I'm still waiting to see how anyone thinks these panels will survive encounters with tire chains or snowplows.  Australia might not have much of either, but France does.

 

Offline Artlav

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2016, 03:18:59 pm »
I guess the only thing that would put this to rest is someone actually building it and honestly publishing the data.
As a net gain there will be knowledge about how to build a reliable solar road and what problems would come out of it.
Might come in handy for Mercury colonies and amusement parks, perhaps?

After 100+ years of road research and refinement, regular roads need fixing every few years, so can't imagine solar roads being any better. Almost certainly worse.
Depends. In Montenegro there are still many roads that were built by the late king almost a 100 years ago, still in good conditions.
However, they are paved with granite mix and don't see more than a few cars per hour, so maybe not that well a comparison.
Hacking the universe since 2008
Having a life since 2013
 

Online kripton2035

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2016, 03:37:41 pm »
Dave, you should subtitle (in french) your video and send it to our french ministers...

If someone wants to provide the French subtitle file then I can upload it.
I may like to do it, but you're really outputting too many words per minute, and more when you're upset ! ;)

Offline jancumps

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2016, 04:38:23 pm »
Dave, you should subtitle (in french) your video and send it to our french ministers...

If someone wants to provide the French subtitle file then I can upload it.
they'll understand it without subtitles. Days that the french only spoke french are long gone.
 

Offline bitwelder

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2016, 04:41:34 pm »
This must be getting the 21st century version of "dig up a hole in the street and re-fill it", with the added 'bonus' (or who knows, perhaps it's even the primary goal) of filling also the pockets of the PV industry contractors.
 

Offline Razor512

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2016, 04:55:54 pm »
In my area, the road generally has to be repaired every 1-3 years, after winter, there will be some damage, as well as chunks knocked out when the plows run through. The road also takes a beating due to large trucks regularly running through.

Other than that, they also often need to dig the road up when ever they need to do maintenance of water, gas, electrical and data lines. Solar panels on a road used be vehicles will never last long enough to cover their own cost.

The problem with governments handling this stuff, is the people who make these choices never think long term, they think only of what is good for their image right now.
E.g., some local schools have ordered ipads for all of the students to use in class, after a round 2 years, most of them are not working, the remaining ones have a host of issues such as pressure marks on the screen from people pushing it too hard, scratches, and crap battery life because they are run all day. When I was doing student teaching, and wanted to use the tablets, the cooperating teacher recommended that I avoid them since they are too unreliable, and don't last long enough to get any work done.

The principal got tricked into getting a ton of non serviceable tablets that ended up being junk after about 2 years.
 

Offline G7PSK

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2016, 05:06:06 pm »
What they are really doing is not building a solar roadway, they are mining EU subsidies. |O :scared: The whole of the EU political structure is now out of control and open to abuse by any company. :--
 

Offline rrinker

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Re: EEVblog #850 - French Wattway Solar Roadways BULLSHIT
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2016, 05:42:48 pm »

Yes, very likely the payback is negative.
Ground and roof systems are insanely reliable and last for decades almost maintenance free.
After 100+ years of road research and refinement, regular roads need fixing every few years, so can't imagine solar roads being any better. Almost certainly worse.


 Unless you happen to be in the path of a meteorite.....   :D
 


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