Author Topic: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit  (Read 2427 times)

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Offline EEVblog

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EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« on: March 02, 2018, 11:23:10 am »
An unfinished main channel video because I'm probably doing something dumb and didn't want to have a non-happy ending getting this working.
Trying to get a Things Network LoRaWAN Gateway and Node working, with mixed success so far.

 

Offline Oldguy

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2018, 12:29:45 pm »
Hi, It looks like you are trying to connect to node 1 (eevblog1) and the active node is 4 (eevblog4 )
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2018, 12:38:45 pm »
Hi, It looks like you are trying to connect to node 1 (eevblog1) and the active node is 4 (eevblog4 )

Oh,  :-[
Will look into that, thanks.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2018, 02:35:47 pm »
Hi, It looks like you are trying to connect to node 1 (eevblog1) and the active node is 4 (eevblog4 )

I can't see that being a problem. Node1 is just a random name
 

Offline GerryBags

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2018, 02:47:48 pm »
 :-DD

Dave "I haven't read the instructions" Jones strikes again!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2018, 02:50:18 pm »
:-DD
Dave "I haven't read the instructions" Jones strikes again!

Err, I followed the instructions.
Care to point out what I did wrong?
 

Offline uCHobby

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2018, 04:35:52 pm »
You have probably already figured this out but just in case... 

There are 64 channels for LoraWan in the US plan, and I assume in the Australian one as well.  The gateways typically only work with 8 of those channels.  A device will randomly send on any of its channels (64 options) and therefore may not be received by your gateway, initially.

The protocol deals with this by enabling the gateway to notify the device of available channels.  But it can take some time for the device to actually find the gateway, This should happen if you leave the units on for awhile.

Another option is to configure the device to match the channels used by your gateway.  This is not advised as it could prevent the device from ever finding another gateway to use when the situation changes. I use this approach for development so I dont have to wait for the process to work when I'm making code changes.

Things could be different in your situation.  Most of my work with LoRa WAN was on the Senet network using Microchip modules with a MultiTech Conduit but the principals should be the same.

 
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Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2018, 12:58:09 am »
... and without the cloud service it's completely useless (aka e-waste). No thanks!
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2018, 01:48:53 pm »
... and without the cloud service it's completely useless (aka e-waste). No thanks!

I categorically refuse to take up any tech that requires cloud services to operate.  I would be reluctant to take up anything that needs the cloud for initial setup - unless there was a "non-cloud" option for future re-install needs.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 02:09:05 pm by Brumby »
 

Online Kean

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2018, 05:36:13 am »
I don't think these are what are causing the issue here, but two things I noticed from the video

1. At 29:46 in the video you paste the Device EUI into the Quickstart sketch instead of the App EUI.  But at 34:05 with TheThingsNode basic sketch you appear to paste the correct values.

2. At https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/country/australia/ you will see a note that you can't legally use the units bought from USA in Australia.  The USA units could use channels outside the ACMA ISM allocation*, i.e. in tha 902-915MHz range used by GSM here (being phased out, and reallocated).  That page also states for Australia: "We use Frequency Sub Band 2, also known as channels 8-15, or 916.8MHz through to 918.2MHz".

That said, the fact you selected the AU frequency plan when adding the gateway should configure the gatway to make use of the correct config file (i.e. https://github.com/TheThingsNetwork/gateway-conf/blob/master/AU-global_conf.json) and thus use the correct 8 channels for Australia.  I just think the models sold in Australia have to have the extra frequencies locked out in the radio module firmware.

There generally seems to be a lot of confusion about supporting AU915 band.  I have to guess that this is why my TTN gateways & Uno I ordered back in 2016 still haven't shipped, although they say they passed RCM testing so they must have something...
e.g. see https://github.com/TheThingsNetwork/arduino-device-lib/issues/222 which is still open

Back to your issue, the messages you're getting near the end certainly seem to indicate there is communication between node and gateway and TTN backend, but the authentication of your App EUI & key are failing.  Not having yet had a chance to work with TTN, I don't know where things are goign wrong.  I think I'm going to order a RAK831 based gateway to get up and running as I've got a bunch of nodes sitting here that I can't really try out without heading to another site in Sydney.

There is a similar report of "join not accepted" on the forums with some potential fixes (create a new App, reset the frame counter in the console)
https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/forum/t/join-not-accepted-denied-rn2903-rf-click2/9570/3

Otherwise, I wonder if you can get debug messages out of the gateway to see what is happening?
 
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Offline JoeyG

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2018, 10:00:53 am »
UNO -  inside -  a Microchip  RN2903  LoraWAN .

Is it a  RN2903  or  RN2903A   ?
 

Offline spaz

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2018, 01:47:18 am »
There is apparently an AU version of the firmware that was written for RN2903/A modules (I guess before Microchip removed the Australian and NZ "Regulatory Approval" from their datasheets.) There is a someone in Sydney that has it, maybe its worth chasing maybe it not. The AU firmware has not been made public.  https://www.thethingsnetwork.org/forum/t/configuring-ttn-australian-frequency-plan-rn2903-node/11603/4

As Kean says, the frequencies are all wrong for AU915. The gateway is fine and legal. but the nodes are not, and will not work unless you can flash the firmware to AU. But that will only be 1/2 your problem, as the libs for the RN2903 are wrong as well.

The way otaa works is that you transmit on frequency A and then the gateway answers on another frequency B, if your module does not have the correct frequency table you will never be able to join with otaa, and just get timeouts or "coverage issue"

I have had the best success with TTN AU with the FiPy and Raw modules(like SX1276) which allows you to edit the frequency table. You delete all the channels, then add just the frequencies for TTN AU. which are:

916.8 MHz
917.0 MHz
917.2 MHz
917.4 MHz
917.6 MHz
917.8 MHz
918.0 MHz
918.2 MHz
917.5 MHz

I currently have RisingRF Gateway build that has been running for a while now and works well, and about to build another two based on the Rak831. I have not however been able to get the RN2903 modules to connect.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 02:21:55 am by spaz »
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2018, 07:14:12 pm »
I've had it confirmed that the Node is not sold in Australia for this reason, it's simply not supported in the firmware.
Andrew Maggio has offered to get the new firmware(s) and do the update and try and get it working for me.
Seems that I was doomed to failure from the get-go  :(
 
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Offline jonovid

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2018, 07:25:09 pm »
that a Lot or Iot of stuffing around no wonder cloud gets a bad rap!
I have been told the new 5G 5th generation wireless systems will have incorporated artificial intelligence.  ::)
consumer electronics with embedded 5G IoT will automatically self configure anywhere in the world plug n play when the consumer plugs the appliance in to the wall for the first time.
so for the consumer to switch off 5G cloud systems would require the same or more stuffing around to re-configure . :-/O |O

« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 07:27:46 pm by jonovid »
Hobby of evil genius      basic knowledge of electronics
 

Online borjam

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2018, 09:12:39 pm »
... and without the cloud service it's completely useless (aka e-waste). No thanks!

I don't know about the TTN gateway, but the main of LoRAWAN compared to other LMWans such as Sigfox is that you can choose wether to use a service provider both for the radio and the backend stuff or you rather use your own infrastructure for everything.

If setting up a LoRAWAN network you will need one or several gateways, a backend server that coordinates the gateways (so that, for example, when several gateways receives a message it will decide which one of the gateways will reply, if needed) and some infrastructure to receive the messages from the devices and process them. Generally a MQTT broker service from which you will fetch the messages and send them to a database or maybe process them directly.

I think you can use the TTN gateways for your own network setup, but I am not sure.

Otherwise, TTN is inherently cloudy because it's a cooperative network. You contribute to increase the network coverage and in that case your gateway is not private.

 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2018, 01:50:16 am »
:-DD
Dave "I haven't read the instructions" Jones strikes again!

Err, I followed the instructions.
Care to point out what I did wrong?

RTFM  >:D

[ me ducks and runs :-) ]
int main (void) { while (1) fork(); }
 

Offline rrinker

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #16 on: March 06, 2018, 03:09:51 am »
 I must say, I've had good success with my SmartThings hub. I much prefer the solutions like these where ONE devices needs a connection to a cloud service but all the other gadgets just talk to the hub. I don;t need every freakin' light switch and motion sensor and wall outlet in my house trying to establish internet connections, there's no point to it. One device as a gateway, and the others all talk to it, and not necessarily via WiFi - SmartThings supports both Z-Wave and Zigbee as well.

 

Offline bryanrj1

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2018, 12:15:04 pm »
It's because the screws fell out.  :)
Excuse me Sir. Who would want to steal a screw?
Claire Standish.  Shermer High School  1984
 

Online Kean

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Re: EEVblog2: EEVblog1062 - The Things Network - Progress Edit
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2018, 12:21:50 pm »
I've had it confirmed that the Node is not sold in Australia for this reason, it's simply not supported in the firmware.
Andrew Maggio has offered to get the new firmware(s) and do the update and try and get it working for me.
Seems that I was doomed to failure from the get-go  :(

Dave, was Andrew able to assist with the firmware?  I have a bunch of the RN2903 module with old firmware... so are unusable!
I've got my TTN Uno, but looking at it, it isn't labelled in any way to indicate it has AU compatible firmware.

The TTN Sydney meetup is on tomorrow night, and Mick and I are planning to attend.
 


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