EEVblog #933 - Keysight U1272A EMC Issue

[Tom45]

Filled out the form now so we'll see what happens! But I'm not going to send mine back, not unless Keysight can work magic with the Customs and courier.

Keysight could send you a prepaid shipping label to an electronics recyling center that is local to you.

[EEVblog]

Hello everyone. Thank you for the continued discussion and feedback. We take pride in the quality and accuracy of Keysight products. This is a core value and is integral in our goal to provide excellent customer satisfaction.

We’re troubled by the EMC-related findings with Keysight’s U1270 series of handheld digital multimeters, and apologize for any problems this has created for our customers. Resolving it is a top priority with our development and manufacturing teams, and we have been working diligently on it for the past three weeks.

We have determined the filter design for the product does not sufficiently attenuate external noise from RF signals. Because we stand behind our products and solutions, we are offering our U1270 series handheld digital multimeter customers the following choices at no cost:

 -- A higher performance U1280 series handheld digital multimeter; or
 -- A redesigned U1270 series handheld digital multimeter (available in February, 2017), and in the meantime, a complimentary U1173B IR-USB PC connectivity cable so customers can upgrade their current U1270 series multimeter to the latest firmware version.

Please contact us at this special webpage (https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2806392&id=2806392) if you own a Keysight U1270 series digital multimeter and want one of these options. We value your satisfaction. We believe in our products, and we want you to be happy with them.

 
There was no other option, but seems no one wants to use the R(ecall) word.

[EEVblog]

U1280 just seems too huge for benchtop use to me. Plus, it lacks the U1270's smart Ohms, smart diode and LowZ.

It is a HUGE meter, something people need to be aware of.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Filled out the form now so we'll see what happens! But I'm not going to send mine back, not unless Keysight can work magic with the Customs and courier.

Keysight could send you a prepaid shipping label to an electronics recyling center that is local to you.

In order to receive the replacement it must be shipped to me, and I'm certain it won't be from a local distributor. If they ship me a $500 meter that means $125 VAT + courier fees ~ $30 (This is of course none of Keysight's responsibility, but mine, there will be no problems shipping to me from anywhere. It just plays into my calculus).

Is the U1282A upgrade from a U127A worth $155? No, not for me, even with the EMC issue. Is $155 for a new U1282A a good deal? Yes, a very good deal.

[TheAmmoniacal]

I would most likely have to pay out of my ass for the VAT just to receive the new one, so I'd like to keep the old one!

Yep, things get a bit weird in EU. For the owners' sake, they better just repair the old one, so example, offer a mobo replacement. Once the main unit (chassis and frame) is replaced, import tax will hit, probably along with VAT.

My biggest gripe with receiving packages from big companies is their marriage with private (business) courier services (DHL, UPS, TNT, whatever), with these companies you never know what to expect. They are not upfront of what fees you might be charged, they never get the VAT calculation correct, their customs handling fee is high, they have a "prepaid VAT" fee and they always manage to come up some other random fee every time (in my experience they are nothing but vultures). I've never been able to resolve any issues with them over their support, and trying to claim back VAT according to the law is impossible (received a motherboard back after repair).

The national postal service might be a day slower, but I always know what to expect, they never get things wrong, they're always on time, they have no unintelligible fees and the deliveries are much less of a pain in the ass (well-established system).

Rant again..   

 

[Muttley Snickers]

Unfortunately both of my U1272A meters are out of warranty so I don't think that an exchange would apply in my case which is upsetting as I for one really did like the U1272A meters except for their nervous behaviour at times, I would be happy to pay a fair and reasonable price to upgrade to a more stable meter if offered and it would be a shame to simply destroy these meters as they do still have some useful and trustworthy features. As mentioned above if a global recall on these products were to be formally announced then that may override or supersede any warranty exchange program offered as was the case with a couple of Fluke meters from memory. 

Either way a big thumbs up to Keysight staff for their great response.    

[bitseeker]

Unfortunately both of my U1272A meters are out of warranty so I don't think that an exchange would apply in my case

Um, I didn't see any requirement that the faulty meter had to be under warranty to qualify for replacement. Submit the form and see what they do.

As far as whether or not the defective meter has to be returned, I'm sure they'll specify if they want it back. My U1252B with a faulty charge controller was under warranty and they asked me to return it before they delivered a new one so that they could see what the problem was. I had to pay to ship the old one to them. Your mileage may vary.

[Dwaine]

I just filled out the form and selected the updated U1272 option. I would miss the U1272's smart Ohms, smart diode and LowZ features. I can wait until February. In the comments I mentioned that I already have the IR-USB cable. Will have to see if they still send me another one.

After clicking submit it says a Keysight representative will contact me.

Have to agree with you on those points with the differences between the two models.  I'm going to wait and get the newer revised version of the u1272a.  I bet there will be other tweaks as well, since they will be sitting down looking at the meter in general.   I just hope they don't change the design to something really different.

[Muttley Snickers]

Unfortunately both of my U1272A meters are out of warranty so I don't think that an exchange would apply in my case

Um, I didn't see any requirement that the faulty meter had to be under warranty to qualify for replacement. Submit the form and see what they do.

Earlier today I rang and spoke to a staff member at Keysight Australia in regards to clarifying their policy on the replacement of this series of meter specifically in relation to units that are out of warranty and they are going to follow it up and get back to me with further information as soon as possible, I’m only speculating here but I would suspect that like most product warranty statements that the products are to be free from defects and so on and so forth for the duration of the warranty period so perhaps for those who do own an earlier meter there is a good chance that they may be excluded from the offered replacement meters, I really don't know and time will tell I suppose.

Keysight Australia were very helpful and keen to assist but did declare that they were only recently notified of the replacement offer and are still in the process of confirming their position and obligations, that is how I interpreted and understood the conversation anyway so don’t quote me on that.       

[Someone]

Filled out the form now so we'll see what happens! But I'm not going to send mine back, not unless Keysight can work magic with the Customs and courier.

Keysight could send you a prepaid shipping label to an electronics recyling center that is local to you.

In order to receive the replacement it must be shipped to me, and I'm certain it won't be from a local distributor. If they ship me a $500 meter that means $125 VAT + courier fees ~ $30 (This is of course none of Keysight's responsibility, but mine, there will be no problems shipping to me from anywhere. It just plays into my calculus).

Is the U1282A upgrade from a U127A worth $155? No, not for me, even with the EMC issue. Is $155 for a new U1282A a good deal? Yes, a very good deal.

Keysight can and do ship DDP (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incoterms) on some transactions. Just because the majority of consumer transactions are CPT and you're used to paying taxes and fees doesnt mean all deliveries to you will have them applied.

[PartialDischarge]

I would most likely have to pay out of my ass for the VAT just to receive the new one, so I'd like to keep the old one!

Yep, things get a bit weird in EU. For the owners' sake, they better just repair the old one, so example, offer a mobo replacement. Once the main unit (chassis and frame) is replaced, import tax will hit, probably along with VAT.

Wtf, like there are no taxes in the US right?. If he receives the unit from within the EU he will not pay a dime. Besides as mentioned in some countries DDP incoterm shipping may apply only if Keysit does have finance people in that country

[PartialDischarge]

I would most likely have to pay out of my ass for the VAT just to receive the new one, so I'd like to keep the old one!

Yep, things get a bit weird in EU. For the owners' sake, they better just repair the old one, so example, offer a mobo replacement. Once the main unit (chassis and frame) is replaced, import tax will hit, probably along with VAT.

Wtf, like there are no taxes in the US right?. If he receives the unit from within the EU he will not pay a dime. Besides as mentioned in some countries DDP incoterm shipping may apply only if Keysit does have finance people in that country

USCBP only charges if the replaced new one is significantly more expensive than the old one. For same model and price unit replacements, no import tax is collected.

This is not a replacement, its a new unit being sent and taxes will apply for sure, first and foremost as there is no reexport, but keysight will pay those. Users that received scopes as gift from K didnt pay taxes and they will not do it here.

CBP will try to charge for everything they can. They even denied Nasa a reexport claim over a huge lens that was previously imported and after sent in a satellite, as they argued space was also part of their national territory. iirc the case was taken to court

[HighVoltage]

I just received an email feedback from Keysight

================================
Hi x
Thank you for your response and for choosing the option to receive a higher performance U1280 handheld digital multi-meter. We will process your request base on the information you provided as listed below.
Your Name: x
Your mailing address: x
Your phone number: +x
Product Model: U1272A
Serial Number: x

A Keysight representative will contact you for the delivery arrangement in two weeks. The delivery time may vary depending on the destination country. Please contact xx @keysight.com if you have any questions.

Thanks and regards,
================================

Wow, that was a fast response.
Very impressive of Keysight.
Thank you

[Tom45]

Woke up this morning to this email from Keysight:

Hi Tom,

Thank you for your response and for choosing the option to a redesigned U1270 series handheld digital multimeter (available in February, 2017), and in the meantime, receive a complimentary U1173B IR-USB PC connectivity cable so you can upgrade your current multimeter to the latest firmware version. We will process your request based on the information you provided as listed below.

Your Name:
Your mailing address:
Your phone number:
Product Model: U1272A
Serial Number:

A Keysight representative will contact you for the complimentary U1173B IR-USB PC connectivity cable delivery arrangement in two weeks. The delivery time may vary depending on the destination country.  Please contact hh_promo@keysight.com if you have any questions.

Thanks and regards,

Evelynn Cheok
Business Process Coordinator
Keysight Technologies

[tchicago]

Any ideas if the other lower end models get redesigned too? In particular, U1232A which I wanted to buy. But then I found that it is having the same issue, and would like to know what's the roadmap for it. Should I wait for an updated version or buy something else?

[bitseeker]

Keysight Australia were very helpful and keen to assist but did declare that they were only recently notified of the replacement offer and are still in the process of confirming their position and obligations, that is how I interpreted and understood the conversation anyway so don’t quote me on that.     

Makes sense. It is an out-of-the-ordinary situation. My view is that it's a recall, even if it's called otherwise. Hopefully, it'll be treated as such, covering all affected units regardless of warranty status. We'll see.

[Muttley Snickers]

Thanks bitseeker, 

As mentioned earlier, I have had correspondence with Keysight Australia in relation to our own U1272A meters but as a decision is yet to be determined because of our own individual circumstance I will not disclose the specific content of the conversation other than what I have previously posted, at this point in time there are indications they may be working in conjunction with Keysight head office on a statement to perhaps clarify and declare their position in relation to the issue at hand and peoples concerns, I don’t know any more than that so respectfully won’t speculate any further.

I must say though that whatever the outcome in my particular case their personal email response actually caused me to be overcome with emotion and brought tears and I am not a softy by any means, to say that I am impressed with Keysights professionalism would be an understatement and I haven’t experienced this level of care and courtesy from a company in many years, Bosch Australia from memory were the last people to actually offer us up any care, concern and remedial action and for me personally I find this is extremely inspirational.   

[bitseeker]

Yes, I've had good experiences with Keysight folks as well. Sometimes, it can take a while for a result especially for something out of the ordinary, but patience pays off in the end.

[Muttley Snickers]

I’m not entirely sure what instigated the emotional outburst on my part coinciding with the Keysight email, the only thing I can think of is that it might have had something to do with the recent super moon or something of that nature, anyway from what I have seen it’s not uncommon for various equipment manufacturers to upset people on occasion in a variety of ways and for the moment at least I seem to have the howling under control, hopefully the tears of joy may soon follow.

 

[bitseeker]

Super moon...howling...

This is an ominous sequence. 

[Faith]

Anyone have a clue whether the new U1273A will merely be a "fixed" U1273A or can we look forward to a U1273B or some such with higher accuracy and reading speeds and whatever else like what Keysight have done with the new U124/U128 Series?

Like a few others around here I really love the form-factor of the U1273A and I'm totally sold on OLED for indoor use.

My new power supplies have OLED screens and information is super readable from just about any angle and even from a surprising distance despite its pathetically small screen. Anyhow the U1273A is pretty old now and it's never bad to introduce small improvements from time to time

[D3f1ant]

Keysights form says a replacement 1280, but there is no 1280 model, so are they sending out a 1281 or 1282?

[TheAmmoniacal]

Keysights form says a replacement 1280, but there is no 1280 model, so are they sending out a 1281 or 1282?

They will send a U1280 series, so presumably a U1282A.

* Also, there's no mention of (it being) a replacement.

[bitseeker]

It's the U1280 series. So, they'll likely send out a comparable model: U1271A->U1281A, U1272A->U1282A. There's no U1283A, so if you want to keep the OLED display, choose the option for an updated U1270 series meter.

[D3f1ant]

lol, I presumed it would be an exchange, your right no mention of returning the old one. All the more reason to get a different model to add to the collection.