Author Topic: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package  (Read 10873 times)

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Online EEVblog

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EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« on: January 30, 2017, 09:04:03 am »
Dave plays with a little known EDA package from Japan.
This is NOT a review, it's just Dave mucking around.


 

Offline EPTech

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2017, 09:46:02 am »
Hi,

I remember using Ultiboard, now MultiSim I believe. When routing larger boards with many polygons in the copper pours it sometimes took a few seconds to zoom in and out. Pouring the copper planes last was an absolute rule of thumb back then. Or when modifying the board, one had to put the display of copper planes to "outline".

I also used an obscure package called EDWin in the early 90's. I have not seen them around anymore. I had some fun with it and it was quite cheap back them, about $200, I believe and still quite advanced. I could not afford Ultiboard so... . It was promoted in an electronics magazine called Elektuur back in the days. I remember Ultiboard had a permanent add on the back cover. Yeeez, I am getting old.  :P

Greetings from Belgium.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 09:53:24 am by EPTech »
Kind greetings,

Pascal.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2017, 10:04:54 am »
I bet for obscure no one can beat the first ever first PCB package I used, PCBreeze by Kepic
 

Offline boonkerz

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #3 on: January 30, 2017, 10:12:55 am »
Does everyone knows https://www.rs-online.com/designspark/pcb-software ?

currently i using a mac with kicad my favorite :)
 

Offline madires

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #4 on: January 30, 2017, 11:00:57 am »
My first ones were newio and Maxon PCB (or similar name) on the Amiga, and OrCad on the PC at the university ;)
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2017, 11:10:37 am »
First two PCB packages I used wrote myself - first on BBC micro (single layer, all bitmap - useable but only just!) and Acorn Arm machines (did dozens of production boards with it over a few years)
Must dig them out sometime....
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Offline slicendice

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2017, 02:35:37 pm »
Interesting software!

FYI, the application is written Borland Delphi. The package got a lot of Delphi Library files (.BPL) all over the place. Not sure where .NET is being used, probably for XML conversions or the help Database files or similar.

Because the software is written in Delphi, I totally understand why the price is so high for this product. Borland Delphi in it self cost a lot and the DEV environment is considered very professional, so because of this the programmed product must also be very professional (RIGHT! :-D) , so the developers charge a lot too.
 

Offline cezar

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2017, 02:57:32 pm »
You probably going to shout on me but would be nice if someone doing it professionally, could review easyeda.com (Dave perhaps?)  .   It's free,  web based - PCB design, schematic and simulator tool. I used it once from drawing schematic to ordering PCB's using their PCB manufacturing service.  Guys that are doing seem to be very proactive and responsive. They quickly implement features required by users.
Some of you are going to not even try it - because it is web based but these days I don't find it very problematic.

These days, after all Kicad revelations it';s at least worth trying out.

note - I am not related or even connected to those guys. I used it for my personal project and I loved it.
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2017, 03:27:48 pm »
My first:

1987, sMARTwORK by Wintek. Then HiWireII also by Wintek a few years after. Both DOS software.

sMARTwORK screenshot:


Ian.
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Offline EPTech

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2017, 04:33:43 pm »
Hi IanJ,

I remember a friend of mine used a tool in DOS called SmartPCB. None of that netlist stuff. Manual routing using the arrow keys. Was that sMARTwORK as well?
Kind greetings,

Pascal.
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2017, 05:21:08 pm »
Hi IanJ,

I remember a friend of mine used a tool in DOS called SmartPCB. None of that netlist stuff. Manual routing using the arrow keys. Was that sMARTwORK as well?

Sounds like it......arrow keys to 'route' and function keys if I remember. Came on 2 protected 5.25" floppies.

Ian.
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Manufacturer of the PDVS2
 

Offline dekra54

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2017, 06:39:31 pm »
Couldn't resist and searched for PCBreeze and shure enough ist still on a ftp server  from the California University of PA as shareware . 
http://aet.calu.edu/ftp/eet/sharware/disk7/

Downloaded it and it works in Dosbox  :-+


 

Online PA0PBZ

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2017, 07:22:53 pm »
My first:

1987, sMARTwORK by Wintek.

Still use it  ;)

Keyboard error: Press F1 to continue.
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #13 on: January 30, 2017, 08:31:00 pm »
My first:

1987, sMARTwORK by Wintek.

Still use it  ;)



OMG!!!!  :-DD

Update:

Wintek's HiWireII....sMARTwORK's successor.......

« Last Edit: January 30, 2017, 08:52:13 pm by IanJ »
Ian Johnston
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Manufacturer of the PDVS2
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #14 on: January 30, 2017, 11:31:02 pm »
First two PCB packages I used wrote myself - first on BBC micro (single layer, all bitmap - useable but only just!)
Same here. I wrote a PCB design program (bitmap based) for MSX2 and sold a couple of dozen copies. Not bad for teenager  ^-^ One of the PCBs I designed with it is an audio mixer which I still use every day (it must have been on 24x7 for over 25 years by now!).
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline ziggyfish

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2017, 03:38:23 am »
This is about terrible as EasyEDA.

I was trying to create a basic PCB. After fighting for several hours with doing the schematic. I got to doing the PCB.

The chip was a QFN405x7, firstly it wouldn't even let me add a new package. After contacting support, they had to fix their servers. Spent 5 hours trying to get the pins aligned (even entering in the exact measurements didn't work), I gave up.

So I would recommend not touching EasyEDA.
 

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2017, 06:52:32 am »
First two PCB packages I used wrote myself - first on BBC micro (single layer, all bitmap - useable but only just!)
Same here. I wrote a PCB design program (bitmap based) for MSX2 and sold a couple of dozen copies. Not bad for teenager  ^-^ One of the PCBs I designed with it is an audio mixer which I still use every day (it must have been on 24x7 for over 25 years by now!).

Make that almost three.
I wrote my own CAD program (DaveCAD!) that was going to have PCB support, but I'm sure you can guess the story...
Was bitmaped based too, ridiculously primitive.
 

Offline ElektronikLabor

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2017, 08:02:13 am »
At work I sometimes get in touch with Japanese customers and they seem to be very patriotic. A lot of Japanese (even engineers) don't speak englich at all and they rely only on Japanese Technology (for hardware & software). They are using Japanese test equipment, Japanese software, Japanese tools and so on. It's very hard to sell them anything even if our products are (much) cheaper and has better technical specs.  :-//
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2017, 08:11:24 am »
At work I sometimes get in touch with Japanese customers and they seem to be very patriotic. A lot of Japanese (even engineers) don't speak englich at all and they rely only on Japanese Technology (for hardware & software). They are using Japanese test equipment, Japanese software, Japanese tools and so on. It's very hard to sell them anything even if our products are (much) cheaper and has better technical specs.  :-//
When I was in Akihabara a few year ago I was surprised by the number if brands and products on sale that I'd never seen or heard of before.
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Offline SeoulBigChris

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2017, 10:35:43 am »
At my first job, even though we did PCB boards, some of our prototypes were wire wrapped.  Huge 9U VME cards, for example.  Somehow, I became the company expert on a "CAD" package called "Wiremaster".  It was a pretty nifty tool that took your netlist and component placements and generated a wiring list for the technicians.  It could also generate data files to drive manual and semi-manual wire wrap machines, something we never used.  As good as it was, we always had special cases, so I ended up writing a bunch of pre- and post-processing filters to tailor the lists to our needs.  I may still have an electronic copy buried in one of my archives somewhere. 

And a little digging around on Google found this:

WireMaster (for $200 in 1982)
Gary Gilbraith
Afterthought Engineering
San Diego, CA


Sure brings back some memories...

 

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2017, 11:27:16 am »
PCBreeze:
http://aet.calu.edu/ftp/eet/sharware/disk7/pcbreeze.txt
It was sold via a tiny ad in Electronics Australia magazine and was shareware.
But given how obscureit was, shareware libraries and BBS's didn't carry it, so you ordered the disk from the author.

Oh boy, those were the days... shipping out thousands of 3.5" and 5 1/4" floppy disks for my own software.
Don't think I had a single one returned corrupted, mailing floppies was pretty reliable.
I though I was the ducks guts when I got disk labels printed on my 9 pin dot matrix printer  ;D
 

Offline StuUK

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2017, 02:14:40 pm »
Oh boy, those were the days... shipping out thousands of 3.5" and 5 1/4" floppy disks for my own software.
Don't think I had a single one returned corrupted, mailing floppies was pretty reliable.
I though I was the ducks guts when I got disk labels printed on my 9 pin dot matrix printer  ;D

Ditto, except my labels were printed on a thermal printer connected to a ZX spectrum.. Software was for the BBC Micro on 5 1/4"... Also did quite a few EEPROMS for the BEEB containing a rudimentary windows GUI I'd written in 6502 assembler...
 

Offline boonkerz

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2017, 05:56:59 pm »
would be nice to see it in an recap video :)

PCBreeze:
http://aet.calu.edu/ftp/eet/sharware/disk7/pcbreeze.txt
It was sold via a tiny ad in Electronics Australia magazine and was shareware.
But given how obscureit was, shareware libraries and BBS's didn't carry it, so you ordered the disk from the author.

Oh boy, those were the days... shipping out thousands of 3.5" and 5 1/4" floppy disks for my own software.
Don't think I had a single one returned corrupted, mailing floppies was pretty reliable.
I though I was the ducks guts when I got disk labels printed on my 9 pin dot matrix printer  ;D
 

Offline Jacko

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2017, 06:56:14 pm »
Wasn't there an old CAD program from the US called WinPCB?  Seems like it was hobby oriented and sold for around $49.  It ran on Win95 (as I recall).  I had to buy a copy to load some files that were in that format to mod/convert for a customer. I converted the files, then the customer turned out to be a wacko, and that was the only time I ever used the program.   :-//

regards, Jacko
 

Offline GreggD

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Re: EEVblog #968 - Mystery EDA Package
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2017, 07:41:56 pm »
I also used sMARTwORK by Wintek back in 1987. Then to DOS Orcad for schematics and PADS for pcbs, also in 1987. I still use Orcad, but Ver16.6 for schematics as it works great can import very old schematics back to Ver4(DOS) id you have the directories set up. All of my big semiconductor customers (past tense) use Orcad for schematics and Mentor Graphics PADS or Allegro. PADS is a great tool, very expensive. It has not had very many updates in the last few years so most people have dropped off maintenance$. Mentor stopped advertising it a couple of years ago and has started pushing a new (cheaper) package called PADS-Professional. This is not PADS but a version of Expedition with the PADS name. I don't use the schematic package from pads except for cross probe part placement. PADS schematic can import the Orcad schematic making placing parts easy.
 


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