Author Topic: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?  (Read 37259 times)

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Online coppice

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #100 on: November 04, 2016, 11:34:48 am »
From a home owners perspective:
Will I get a replacement shingle in 20 years?
Good traditional shingles have a lifetime up to 80 years here.

What type of shingles are "traditional" in your area?

Here, the standard is asphalt shingles that are labeled as "30 year", but you'd be lucky to get 20 out of them.  You can buy premium "40 year" shingles.  I have never heard of 80 years, so you must be talking about some kind of slate tile shingle or something like that?

At any rate, other than physical damage from micrometeorites or a stray fly ball from a neighbor's baseball game, the durability of these shingles is something I wold expect to far EXCEED the standard shingles installed in my area.
Musk was showing off replacements for slate and ceramic tiles. These, and other rigid tiles - e.g. concrete, are usually good for at least 50 years, and 80 is not unusual.

Continued supply of compatible tiles is an important factor. Many people need to undertake small localised repairs to their roof during its life. At the end of the life of the tiles compatibility is much less important. In most cases you can easily use completely different tiles for a fresh new roof.
 

Offline NANDBlog

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #101 on: November 04, 2016, 11:50:54 am »
From a home owners perspective:
Will I get a replacement shingle in 20 years?
Good traditional shingles have a lifetime up to 80 years here.

What type of shingles are "traditional" in your area?

Here, the standard is asphalt shingles that are labeled as "30 year", but you'd be lucky to get 20 out of them.  You can buy premium "40 year" shingles.  I have never heard of 80 years, so you must be talking about some kind of slate tile shingle or something like that?

At any rate, other than physical damage from micrometeorites or a stray fly ball from a neighbor's baseball game, the durability of these shingles is something I wold expect to far EXCEED the standard shingles installed in my area.
Well, in Europe, houses usually built with ceramic roof tiles, bricks and they last lifetime.

You are supposed to order some excess, so it can be repaired.
 

Offline KM6XZ

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #102 on: November 16, 2016, 09:49:22 am »
The whole discussion based on a tech version of traditional anything undermines the opportunities by getting away from tradition. Traditional methods were used based on the technology limitations if 300 years ago. When cars first became available regulations stifled development because they were assumed to be horse drawn carts without the horse so required some of the same policies that carriages were covered by in the late 1800s in US and European cities.
Obviously Musk was thinking of North America as the first target audience, lower volume at high price as the while the production technology ramps up to mass production and evolutionary changes. Just as he did with the Tesla cars, starting with the roadster for rich early adopters who were a small enough number they could produce enough to satisfy demand. The Model S is a much higher production vehicle but still small compared to the established auto companies. But ramping up to a couple hundred thousand luxury sedans paved the way to a mass produced affordable $35000 model.
Using the same plan, a replacement for slate and tile roofs with something that might even cost less is a good target audience. In California, a slate roof can easily cost $80-150k and a ceramic tile one can cost $50k. It becomes viable option with less sales resistance for the smaller number of potential customers that a start up can produce for.
After driving a P85s  Model S Tesla I have no doubt that Musk knows his audience better than any car company executive. The US auto industry in the 1960s employed 1 in 7 people in the US and was the largest car industry in the world. In 2015, the total US output of cars was a little over 4 million, a fraction of just 10 years ago, while China produced 24 million up from almost zero 15 years ago. 
Musk's approach of gaining experience before ramping up to lower cost products will likely result in Tesla being the largest car producer in the US in 6-7 years. The same would not be out of the question for the solar roof tiles. Forget about initial cost efficiency, or mass production trying to compete with a mature, stagnant industry, he does not have to have a product that replaces current traditional products...yet, wait for the 3-4 generation of these and see where the volume is. I would bet on Musk in the long term.

 
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Offline Brumby

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #103 on: November 16, 2016, 12:39:58 pm »
Forget about initial cost efficiency, or mass production trying to compete with a mature, stagnant industry, he does not have to have a product that replaces current traditional products...yet, wait for the 3-4 generation of these and see where the volume is. I would bet on Musk in the long term.

While I agree that it is not wise to condemn an emerging technology on production cost, the fact is that the concept has been out in the field for a number of years - and no-one has made a go of it.  Do we think Elon Musk will do any better?  If so, why?
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #104 on: November 16, 2016, 02:26:22 pm »
Do we think Elon Musk will do any better?  If so, why?

Because he made pretty ones and aimed them at rich people.

(just like the Tesla Roadster)
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2016, 01:43:55 pm »
Elon Musk has announced that his roof will be cheaper than a traditional roof.

https://electrek.co/2016/11/17/tesla-solar-roof-cost-less-than-regular-roof-even-before-energy-production-elon-musk/

(I guess it will depend on what he classes as a "traditional" roof - not everybody installs fancy slate roofs)

 

Offline lpickup

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #106 on: November 18, 2016, 01:50:18 pm »
Yeah, he has GOT to be comparing this to tile/slate roofs.  There is no way this statement is true for asphalt shingles.
 

Online coppice

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #107 on: November 18, 2016, 02:43:14 pm »
Yeah, he has GOT to be comparing this to tile/slate roofs.  There is no way this statement is true for asphalt shingles.
He was showing tiled roofs. On the other hand he was showing fake homes in a Universal Studios movie set. I don't know how much a movie set roof costs. :)
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2016, 02:44:44 pm »
Yeah, he has GOT to be comparing this to tile/slate roofs.  There is no way this statement is true for asphalt shingles.

I guess it doesn't matter. So long as it's cheaper than some types of roof that some people are installing then he's got a sales pitch.
 
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Offline Marco

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #109 on: January 01, 2017, 09:22:32 pm »
I don't think you can make the glass for the tile even as cheap as an entire traditional tile.

Unless they use induction connecting everything electrically will make installation take a hell of a lot longer too.
 

Online coppice

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #110 on: May 12, 2017, 07:41:00 am »
Tesla appears to have put their solar roof system on sale. There is no new technical information, beyond the original vague presentation, as far as I have seen. They have talked prices, but again in a pretty vague way. They are taking $1000 deposits, though.

Telsa say regulations prevent more than 50% of the roof being solar. Does anyone know what those regulations might be, or their rationale?
 

Offline djos

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #111 on: May 12, 2017, 07:59:53 am »
We are certainly getting to the pointy end of this saga!  :popcorn: It'll be interesting to see what the efficiencies are like and how it actually hangs together.

Personally I'd rather have solar tiles than Solar panels - my roof is only good for a few more years as the concrete tiles are not in the best shape. I'd either go solar tiles or Colourbond Steel with panels but would prefer the terracotta tiles when available (current tiles are orange too).
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Online thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #112 on: May 12, 2017, 07:25:40 pm »
Tesla appears to have put their solar roof system on sale. There is no new technical information, beyond the original vague presentation, as far as I have seen. They have talked prices, but again in a pretty vague way. They are taking $1000 deposits, though.

Telsa say regulations prevent more than 50% of the roof being solar. Does anyone know what those regulations might be, or their rationale?

I found this: "Residential Systems—Single and Two-Unit Residential Dwellings: Plan review is required if a system is to be installed that will occupy more than 50% of the roof area of a residential building."
http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/pdf/reports/solarphotovoltaicguideline.pdf

I can see some reasoning, you need to be able to access the roof and if the whole thing is covered with panels you can't walk on that would be difficult. But, of course these are more tiles than traditional panels, so its probably straddling some weird mix of regulations.
 

Online james_s

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #113 on: May 12, 2017, 07:31:16 pm »
Well it certainly seems more viable than a solar roadway at least.

I didn't watch the video so I don't know how much the cost will be but from what I have seen it looks nice, a lot nicer than conventional panels mounted on a roof. Also if you need a new roof anyway it seems like this might make sense, it's a nice looking and durable roof that also happens to generate electricity.
 

Online james_s

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #114 on: May 12, 2017, 07:33:53 pm »
From a home owners perspective:
Will I get a replacement shingle in 20 years?
Good traditional shingles have a lifetime up to 80 years here.

Wow, 80 years? One is lucky to get 25 years out of a roof out here, even one claimed to be a "50 year" roof and well maintained. Tree leaves/needles cover it and keep it moist, moss gross and the roots deteriorate the roof. Snow/rain/ice, freeze/thaw cycles, it all ends up being really brutal.
 

Offline tronde

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Online james_s

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #116 on: May 13, 2017, 07:35:14 pm »
... moss gross and the roots deteriorate the roof.
Copper or zink will get rid of the moss problem. Even a rather thin bare copper wire is sufficient.

http://structuretech1.com/zinc-strips-prevent-moss-growth-on-roofs/
http://www.sigroofing.co.uk/why-copper-wire-is-the-solution-for-a-moss-free-roof/

It helps, but even with the zinc strips I still have to get up there and pick the moss off some areas. I spread moss killer on it occasionally too, moss is tough stuff though, there's a lot of hardy native moss around here.
 

Online coppice

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Online Koen

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #118 on: August 14, 2018, 12:52:07 pm »
According to nearly a dozen sources familiar with the factory wooden crates, including one who recently left the company, mildly.
 

Offline b_force

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #119 on: August 15, 2018, 12:52:39 pm »
From a home owners perspective:
Will I get a replacement shingle in 20 years?
Good traditional shingles have a lifetime up to 80 years here.

What type of shingles are "traditional" in your area?

Here, the standard is asphalt shingles that are labeled as "30 year", but you'd be lucky to get 20 out of them.  You can buy premium "40 year" shingles.  I have never heard of 80 years, so you must be talking about some kind of slate tile shingle or something like that?

At any rate, other than physical damage from micrometeorites or a stray fly ball from a neighbor's baseball game, the durability of these shingles is something I wold expect to far EXCEED the standard shingles installed in my area.
Well, in Europe, houses usually built with ceramic roof tiles, bricks and they last lifetime.

You are supposed to order some excess, so it can be repaired.
A lifetime?
Let's make it many generations  8)
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #120 on: August 15, 2018, 05:29:51 pm »
Well, in Europe, houses usually built with ceramic roof tiles, bricks and they last lifetime.

I've been in ordinary-person European houses that were built in the 15th century.

(and in quite a few pubs from the 16th/17th century)

I bet there's houses older than that if you look hard enough.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2018, 05:31:58 pm by Fungus »
 

Online CatalinaWOW

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #121 on: August 15, 2018, 06:37:31 pm »
Well, in Europe, houses usually built with ceramic roof tiles, bricks and they last lifetime.

I've been in ordinary-person European houses that were built in the 15th century.

(and in quite a few pubs from the 16th/17th century)

I bet there's houses older than that if you look hard enough.

And I'll bet you find that they have all had numerous repairs over the years.  In addition to the modifications to bring them into usability by modern standards.   Things like heat, plumbing and electricity.  At least here in the new world where there is a significant stock of 300 year old houses and buildings that is the case.  Those repair jobs include such things as taking chimneys apart and re-setting the stones.

 

Online nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #122 on: August 15, 2018, 07:24:03 pm »
15th century homes are a bit over the top but there are many older building with ceramic roof tiles which are over a century old. Over here concrete roof tiles came into use since around 1910 and these don't need mass replacement even after 50 years. Needing to redo a roof with ceramic or concrete tiles is unheard of in the NL.
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Online james_s

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #123 on: August 15, 2018, 09:08:45 pm »
In some parts of the US, ceramic and tile roofs are common, but out here cedar shakes are the traditional material with asphalt composite shingles becoming a lot more common. The house across the street from me actually has a tile roof but that's very unusual here, I think the much higher cost puts a lot of people off, even if it does last longer people are notoriously short sighted. That and with all the trees it's not uncommon for a tree to fall or drop a heavy branch that would cause considerable damage to brittle tiles. That may be why they're less common. The places that do have a lot of roofs tend to be the more desert-like regions where >100' tall evergreen trees are not everywhere.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #938 - Tesla Solar Roofs - Are They Viable?
« Reply #124 on: August 15, 2018, 11:59:52 pm »
15th century homes are a bit over the top but there are many older building with ceramic roof tiles which are over a century old. Over here concrete roof tiles came into use since around 1910 and these don't need mass replacement even after 50 years.

A good slate roof can last a lot longer than that.

 


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