Author Topic: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown  (Read 50711 times)

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Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« on: March 01, 2017, 08:09:41 am »
Teardown of the new Keysight InfiniiVision 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope leased TODAY!

 
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Offline brutester

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 08:38:50 am »
Dave, I think that they have developed a separate compute board, because:
 1. it seems to be 6 layers (main board is 4 layers I think).
 2. it may save cost if they decide to reuse this module in other product (or in other versions of 1000X)
 3. They may manufacture the compute board in their own facility and outsource the assembly to another factory
 4. As you have pointed out - it is easier to test when they are in separate boards.
 
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Offline daqq

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 08:51:39 am »
Thanks for the teardown.

My guess as to the separation would be that for the digital board you would use more layers, finer geometry and other things that make it a costlier material per dm^2 . Then they can get away with a simpler technology (also as far as assembly is concerned) for the giant analog board.

Integrating them into one would force the use of the same technology on the whole large board.

I've seen this done for those reasons before.
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Offline MrBungle

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 08:52:40 am »
Ofcourse there's rust, that's why they were in the dumpster ;)
 
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Offline sorenkir

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 08:57:33 am »
For sure, separate processor board will allow design upgrade because these Spear600 processors are quite old ("NRND"):
http://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers/spear600.html
Michel.
 

Offline AndyC_772

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 08:58:20 am »
Integrating them into one would force the use of the same technology on the whole large board.

I've seen this done for those reasons before.

I've done exactly the same thing for the same reasons. Escaping big BGAs, and correctly routing DDR memory, takes a lot of layers. The main PCB is probably only 4 or 6 layers, but I'd be surprised if that logic board has fewer than 10.

Offline Avacee

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 10:18:14 am »
Excellent teardown as usual - learn a lot every time  :-+

Around the 24:01 mark and the LMH6552 1.5Ghz Differential Amp U39. Is it just the camera angle or are pins 1,4,5,8 using a bees dick width of solder and look like they'd snap if the unit was jostled sharply?
 

Offline quarros

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 10:36:54 am »
Another possibility for the separate board is to make unlocking hacking features harder and make it easier/cheaper to provide different feature sets?
(Since one board don't have to contain all the features)


Edit: Hmm... I might be totally off mark.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2017, 10:50:44 am by quarros »
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2017, 11:02:01 am »
For sure, separate processor board will allow design upgrade because these Spear600 processors are quite old ("NRND"):
http://www.st.com/en/microcontrollers/spear600.html
Michel.

Interesting.
Still selling them though, and there would be the good'ol "last buy" when the time comes.
 

Offline EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2017, 11:04:50 am »
Dave, I think that they have developed a separate compute board, because:
 1. it seems to be 6 layers (main board is 4 layers I think).
 2. it may save cost if they decide to reuse this module in other product (or in other versions of 1000X)
 3. They may manufacture the compute board in their own facility and outsource the assembly to another factory
 4. As you have pointed out - it is easier to test when they are in separate boards.

Could certainly save some assembly cost by having a higher spec assembly house for the CPU board, and an old lower end assembly house do the main board.
Actual bare board price saving will come down to panel pricing for a given manufacturing process. Could be very significant.
 

Offline capt bullshot

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2017, 01:44:37 pm »
I believe Agisight has enough volume to keep ST producing the spear. Anyone else should watch out, if Keylent stops buying this chip, ST might stop producing it, causing the usual last time buy notice.
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Offline AndyC_772

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2017, 02:14:25 pm »
NRND doesn't necessarily mean they're going to stop making it any time soon; often suppliers will continue to support existing customers for a long time.

IIRC the SPEAR range is quite an unusual CPU which can be customised for individual applications with additional hard-coded logic on the die. It may be that this customisation is a service that ST don't want to offer any longer, but if the NRE has been done already, then the particular version of the CPU used in the DSOX family will be produced for as long as there's demand.

Offline bji900

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2017, 02:30:50 pm »
Nice Video Dave! Sorry about changing Febuary to 28 days ;) Looking forward to the review. I find it slightly confusing that the have the two different high end ones listed almost identically on their website but the price is $150 different. You need to open it to learn that the difference is the waveform generator output.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2017, 04:14:58 pm »
What's the CR2032 for? Does it know the time?

 

Online nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2017, 05:09:14 pm »
What's the CR2032 for? Does it know the time?
Ofcourse! That is a standard feature on DSOs for over 20 years so they can include time & date on a screen dump.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline coppice

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2017, 05:57:12 pm »
NRND doesn't necessarily mean they're going to stop making it any time soon; often suppliers will continue to support existing customers for a long time.
Policies vary between vendors, but NRND typically means "we have something newer, that's better value for money". If they are giving up on a product type they might declare a device NRND, without having a newer option. You always need to look carefully.
 

Offline marshallh

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #16 on: March 01, 2017, 06:44:30 pm »
Looking at the pcb design on both boards, the layout is very much like boards you see coming out of Chinese design houses. The boards were very obviously done in Altium, and the silk rectangles around resistors and ovals around the caps is a trademark giveaway. I'd suspect they contracted out the layout though they may have done the schematics themselves.

On the logic board, lack of traces on both top and bottom points to at least 6 layers and more probably 8 layers.
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #17 on: March 01, 2017, 07:36:40 pm »
What's the CR2032 for? Does it know the time?
Ofcourse! That is a standard feature on DSOs for over 20 years so they can include time & date on a screen dump.
Also for saving state - scopes have a lot of settings and people  expect them to power up in the same state as when they were powered down, ( and power down without notice) and EEProm/Flash has issues with write time and endurance.   
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Offline alter Ratz

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #18 on: March 01, 2017, 07:40:07 pm »
Coated spark gaps? Does this make sense?
Anybody has some Information about this?

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Offline VasinD

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2017, 07:41:11 pm »
Thank you for the teardown, Dave.
But wait a minute... NRND old processor, low end old Spartan-3 FPGA, chinese capacitors on power supply... Is this is a top quality HP NEW scope or I miss something??? Come on, HP... Looks like the mountain gave birth to mouse.
The DS1054Z looks like quality/price beast comparing to this suck.
 

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2017, 08:18:19 pm »
Thank you for the teardown, Dave.
But wait a minute... NRND old processor, low end old Spartan-3 FPGA, chinese capacitors on power supply... Is this is a top quality HP NEW scope or I miss
It had to compete with Tektronix' TBS1000 series so it had to be a rehash using obsolete technology  >:D
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Offline brutester

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2017, 08:21:04 pm »
+1 I tought the same.. I think that they should not be coated.
 

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2017, 08:37:11 pm »
Spark gaps work by ionising air. Coating = no air.
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Offline Agent24

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2017, 08:56:04 pm »
Given that the PSU is also coated with a sprawl of budget capacitors, I don't think quality was at the forefront of the design there.
 

Offline IvoS

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2017, 09:06:17 pm »
What a nice scope for cheap money I thought I will definitely buy one but after seeing those "lovely" electrolytic caps I lost my appetite.  :(
 


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