Author Topic: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown  (Read 28649 times)

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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #125 on: March 07, 2017, 12:29:14 am »
The firmware is so buggy on these Keysight scopes that I avoid them for any troubleshooting work.
Sexy LCD and fast CPU but I had to laugh when I kept getting a blank trace and putting a Tektronix to the same probe point gave me a trace, just as I expected.
I especially love setting it to AC coupled and turning the trigger level negative -0.2V really makes sense  :palm:

What scope are you using? Overall I'd expect that it's more of a use-model thing than a buggy firmware thing...

Is it not possible for an AC signal to drop below zero volts?  You should be able to set the trigger at any level in the AC wave form - positive or negative - no?  That seems to be how my scope works.
Yes, just need to bear in mind that the level would be relative to the avarage level of the signal, not absolute voltage to ground
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Offline AndyC_772

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #126 on: March 07, 2017, 07:12:03 am »
I've been using HP/Agilent/Keysight scopes daily for 25+years and have yet to see a bug of any significance.

Quoting this because it's probably the single most important specification the scope could have.

My experience has been similar.
 
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #127 on: March 08, 2017, 10:09:10 am »
 
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Online nfmax

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #128 on: March 08, 2017, 12:16:36 pm »
Dave - I think you are wrong when you say the 1000X does not have an MSO capability - it is an MSO, with just one digital input. This input seems to be able to do everything a digital input can do on the 2,3,4,6-X series MSO's (provided that is supported by the installed decode options), it's just it's shared with the external trigger function.
 
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Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #129 on: March 08, 2017, 01:01:02 pm »
Dave - I think you are wrong when you say the 1000X does not have an MSO capability - it is an MSO, with just one digital input. This input seems to be able to do everything a digital input can do on the 2,3,4,6-X series MSO's (provided that is supported by the installed decode options), it's just it's shared with the external trigger function.
It isn't really shared with the ext trig function - it is an independent digital input, just like an MSO. You can trigger on any source and still display, decode or measure the digital input
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Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #130 on: March 08, 2017, 02:55:44 pm »
Hi,

I was watching Dave's latest video, are these the configuration resistors:




They look suspicious. May be try continuity to the ADC inputs on the SPEAR chip?

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #131 on: March 08, 2017, 05:36:39 pm »
Dave - I think you are wrong when you say the 1000X does not have an MSO capability - it is an MSO, with just one digital input. This input seems to be able to do everything a digital input can do on the 2,3,4,6-X series MSO's (provided that is supported by the installed decode options), it's just it's shared with the external trigger function.

It isn't really shared with the ext trig function - it is an independent digital input, just like an MSO. You can trigger on any source and still display, decode or measure the digital input

An external trigger is more than just a digital MSO input.  Usually the external trigger is sampled at a rate much lower than the digitizer rate so the trigger to sample time has to be interpolated to prevent jitter in the waveform display.

I searched through the available DSOX1000 documentation and did not find any specifications for when the external trigger input is used as a 1-bit digital input.  Maybe they sample it at the vertical sample rate so no interpolation is required?  Can it even be used outside of protocol decoding?
 

Offline Someone

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #132 on: March 08, 2017, 10:03:17 pm »
I was watching Dave's latest video, are these the configuration resistors:
[picture of processor card]
They look suspicious. May be try continuity to the ADC inputs on the SPEAR chip?
As mike said previously the separate PCB for the processor and ASICs is likely tested independently of the scope (configured to limit signals to 200MHz) and then once its put into the scope assumes its full identity. I'd be looking to the main board for resistor straps or flash memory to identify what its plugged into, unless someone wants to get their hands on the lower end models to compare against.
 

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #133 on: March 09, 2017, 12:33:33 am »
Can it even be used outside of protocol decoding?
YES, for the umpteenth time. You can display it, trigger on it, measure from it and decode from it, in any permutation. You can set the threshold over 2 ranges +/-1.6v and +/-8V, and apply probe scaling factors.
It works JUST LIKE AN MSO INPUT.
The only limitation I've noticed is when you are displaying it, you can't select some acquisition modes like avaraging.
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #134 on: March 09, 2017, 01:59:40 am »
I was watching Dave's latest video, are these the configuration resistors:

Were you referring to video #978? Some of those do affect the configuration voltages.
I TEA.
 
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Offline Jay_Diddy_B

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #135 on: March 09, 2017, 02:13:03 pm »
I was watching Dave's latest video, are these the configuration resistors:

Were you referring to video #978? Some of those do affect the configuration voltages.

I was referring to the video. I had just scanned the video when I posted the message. Last night I watched the video properly and I realized my question was answered in the video.

I would try and map the known resistive dividers to the corresponding ADC pins on the Spear600, listed in this table:



Then try and track the other ADC channels to the configuration dividers that control the other functions. It is these other configurations that are the most interesting.

Regards,

Jay_Diddy_B
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 02:14:49 pm by Jay_Diddy_B »
 

Offline David Hess

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #136 on: March 10, 2017, 03:09:55 am »
YES, for the umpteenth time. You can display it, trigger on it, measure from it and decode from it, in any permutation. You can set the threshold over 2 ranges +/-1.6v and +/-8V, and apply probe scaling factors.
It works JUST LIKE AN MSO INPUT.
The only limitation I've noticed is when you are displaying it, you can't select some acquisition modes like avaraging.

You sure cannot tell from the documentation which also leaves out a whole bunch of other questions I had.
 

Offline amitchell

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #137 on: March 10, 2017, 03:42:28 am »
YES, for the umpteenth time. You can display it, trigger on it, measure from it and decode from it, in any permutation. You can set the threshold over 2 ranges +/-1.6v and +/-8V, and apply probe scaling factors.
It works JUST LIKE AN MSO INPUT.
The only limitation I've noticed is when you are displaying it, you can't select some acquisition modes like avaraging.

You sure cannot tell from the documentation which also leaves out a whole bunch of other questions I had.

The documentation that also uses the word "cheap" to describe the product. I had a laugh at that, not exactly how you want to describe a product from a marketing perspective. It could use a revision to say the least.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #138 on: March 10, 2017, 09:49:34 am »
YES, for the umpteenth time. You can display it, trigger on it, measure from it and decode from it, in any permutation. You can set the threshold over 2 ranges +/-1.6v and +/-8V, and apply probe scaling factors.
It works JUST LIKE AN MSO INPUT.
The only limitation I've noticed is when you are displaying it, you can't select some acquisition modes like avaraging.

You sure cannot tell from the documentation which also leaves out a whole bunch of other questions I had.
Yes, the datasheet in particular is very lacking in this respect
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #139 on: March 10, 2017, 09:55:00 am »
YES, for the umpteenth time. You can display it, trigger on it, measure from it and decode from it, in any permutation. You can set the threshold over 2 ranges +/-1.6v and +/-8V, and apply probe scaling factors.
It works JUST LIKE AN MSO INPUT.
The only limitation I've noticed is when you are displaying it, you can't select some acquisition modes like avaraging.

You sure cannot tell from the documentation which also leaves out a whole bunch of other questions I had.

Yep. This is one of the 'scopes biggest features IMHO but Keysight doesn't think it's important.
 

Offline Nobody2

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #140 on: March 10, 2017, 12:39:02 pm »
Considering the separate processor board:
Maybe it has to do with layer count? e.g. they need 4 or 6 layers to route the zillion BGA pins, while the rest is pretty simple and only needs 2. I haven't noticed any layer markings in the video though.

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I don't have the time right now to check the previous 6 pages.
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #141 on: March 10, 2017, 01:44:41 pm »
Considering the separate processor board:
Maybe it has to do with layer count? e.g. they need 4 or 6 layers to route the zillion BGA pins, while the rest is pretty simple and only needs 2. I haven't noticed any layer markings in the video though.

Sorry if this was already mentioned, but I don't have the time right now to check the previous 6 pages.
The sub-board is 10 layers - there's a pic earlier in this thread
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Offline JPortici

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #142 on: March 10, 2017, 02:51:03 pm »
mike, there is an unpopulated QFP + others components near the area where a lan connector would be (according to the mechanical assembly)
what could it be?
could it be perhaps of an ethernet phy? even though there is no jack footprint on the board...
 

Online mikeselectricstuff

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #143 on: March 10, 2017, 03:09:50 pm »
mike, there is an unpopulated QFP + others components near the area where a lan connector would be (according to the mechanical assembly)
what could it be?
could it be perhaps of an ethernet phy? even though there is no jack footprint on the board...
It is in line with the USB device port,and bypassed with 0R resistors  on the underside. I think it may have been something like a hub as a workaround for silicon errata on the SPEAR - the boot text references a USB PHY workaround.
It is definitely not an ethernet PHY.
I haven't checked but I'd be surprised if the unpopulated connector on the sub-board didn't have all the PHY signals. The SPEAR needs an external PHY, so it's not just a case of lashing on a magjack. And it probably isn't supported by the software anyway.

« Last Edit: March 11, 2017, 08:50:00 pm by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline Nemezy

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #144 on: April 07, 2017, 10:26:18 pm »
Hi, I decided to replace the fan in my DSOX1102G. Now it is much quieter and less frequent. The next step is to replace the capacitors   ;D
 

Offline amitchell

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #145 on: April 07, 2017, 11:40:37 pm »
Hi, I decided to replace the fan in my DSOX1102G. Now it is much quieter and less frequent. The next step is to replace the capacitors   ;D

Nice I bet the rubber mounting grommets help, I am going to order one for myself.   :-+
 

Offline jusaca

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #146 on: April 21, 2017, 11:35:56 am »
Is there already some information about the review? Still waiting for it :D
 

Offline markus-k

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Re: EEVblog #976 - Keysight 1000 X-Series Oscilloscope Teardown
« Reply #147 on: June 30, 2017, 06:07:53 am »
I replaced the fan on my 1000X with a Noctua fan too a few weeks ago, the stock one was incredibly loud and annoying. A lot better now, I'm not sure yet if I should silence it further with one of the included low-noise adapters. It's mostly airflow noise now. The heatsinks on the board are getting quite hot, I might have to make some measurements.

Then I got a second 1000X yesterday. To my surprise, it is way quieter than the first one when I turned it on. No need to replace the fan. Now I get why people are saying the scope is silent enough, but it's odd there is such a difference between them. I don't have anything to measure the noise level, but I'd guess it's half as loud and an order of magnitude less annoying.

Maybe there is a quality problem with the fan? The second scope's serial number is lower than the first one, so I guess it's a bit older.
 


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