Author Topic: EEVblog TikTok  (Read 18707 times)

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Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #50 on: April 02, 2023, 12:29:40 pm »
Err, one is owned and directly controlled by the CCP, the other isn't.

So, the only problem is who pushes the button.
Having direct persuasion control of hundreds of millions of users. Having a "heat" [algorithm] that can be tailored to make anything trend, or to hide things they don't want people to see. Having the potentiality to literally flip elections and influence opinion as a result... is not a problem if it's in the hands of some tycoon or some board of billionaires.

I never said it's NOT a problem, I'm saying the CCP is MORE of a problem, a LOT MORE of a problem, an UNACCEPTABLE problem. Anyone who doesn't see this risk is a fool.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #51 on: April 05, 2023, 03:48:02 am »
The true reason behind this TikTok as escape goat ...


All I see in this video is a long winded excuse for him to be the mouthpiece of a foreign leader. Or should I say foreign "adversary"?

Well, for sure the proposed ban law for Tiktok includes ... its anti-circumvention clauses do seem to imply that offering or using a VPN or other means of attempting to circumvent a restriction on use of a restricted app or service could get you in the slammer for up to 20 years, or fined up to $1,000,000>:D

There you go, enjoy your new law that will be tons better than the "authoritarian" China, or even better beats North Korea or Taliban.  :-DD

Is this restriction applied to ALL apps, or only to apps that are deemed a national security risk?
Because "SEEMS TO imply" is what a mouthpiece like T.C. would say to push his lies.


Offline Sredni

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #52 on: April 05, 2023, 08:04:59 pm »
Err, one is owned and directly controlled by the CCP, the other isn't.

So, the only problem is who pushes the button.
Having direct persuasion control of hundreds of millions of users. Having a "heat" [algorithm] that can be tailored to make anything trend, or to hide things they don't want people to see. Having the potentiality to literally flip elections and influence opinion as a result... is not a problem if it's in the hands of some tycoon or some board of billionaires.

I never said it's NOT a problem, I'm saying the CCP is MORE of a problem, a LOT MORE of a problem, an UNACCEPTABLE problem. Anyone who doesn't see this risk is a fool.

De gustibus...
I consider all threats to democracy equally unacceptable, be they foreign or domestic. And if you think about it, it's the domestic ones that are more likely to succeed. In the case of the US an authoritarian shift of government is much more likely to come from the right than from the left.
And then, of course, there's the hybrid approach: a foreign actor financing/covertly owning/blackmailing a domestic 'useful idiot'.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 08:32:00 pm by Sredni »
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Offline Sredni

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #53 on: April 05, 2023, 08:22:50 pm »
Well, for sure the proposed ban law for Tiktok includes ... its anti-circumvention clauses do seem to imply that offering or using a VPN or other means of attempting to circumvent a restriction on use of a restricted app or service could get you in the slammer for up to 20 years, or fined up to $1,000,000>:D

There you go, enjoy your new law that will be tons better than the "authoritarian" China, or even better beats North Korea or Taliban.  :-DD

Is this restriction applied to ALL apps, or only to apps that are deemed a national security risk?
Because "SEEMS TO imply" is what a mouthpiece like T.C. would say to push his lies.



From Wikipedia:

Quote
James Patrick Anthony Dore (born July 26, 1965) is an American stand-up comedian, political commentator, podcaster, YouTube personality, and conspiracy theorist.

I am not wasting 27 minutes of my life listening to a conspiracy theorist. The two minutes spent looking at the titles of his youtube channel are more than enough to convince me that it will be more productive to dig a hole in my garden and then fill it again.
So, let me rephrase my question: is this restriction put black on white on a bill, and if it is so, is its scope limited to apps that are deemed a national security risk (by a suitable government agency, not by someone somewhere)?

Because I have already seen this movie elsewhere: politician pretends to do the interest of big media corp. who financed their campaign/are lobbying for their interests/are actually bribing them and uses security as an excuse to insert clauses that could be used to prevent access to sites that are bad for the corp. business. Then these clauses are struck down, or get severely limited before the law gets approved. IF the l aw gets approved.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2023, 08:29:27 pm by Sredni »
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Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #54 on: April 05, 2023, 10:28:01 pm »
Err, one is owned and directly controlled by the CCP, the other isn't.

So, the only problem is who pushes the button.
Having direct persuasion control of hundreds of millions of users. Having a "heat" [algorithm] that can be tailored to make anything trend, or to hide things they don't want people to see. Having the potentiality to literally flip elections and influence opinion as a result... is not a problem if it's in the hands of some tycoon or some board of billionaires.

I never said it's NOT a problem, I'm saying the CCP is MORE of a problem, a LOT MORE of a problem, an UNACCEPTABLE problem. Anyone who doesn't see this risk is a fool.

De gustibus...
I consider all threats to democracy equally unacceptable, be they foreign or domestic. And if you think about it, it's the domestic ones that are more likely to succeed.

Agreed.

In the case of the US an authoritarian shift of government is much more likely to come from the right than from the left.

I don't think so. ::)
 

Offline magic

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #55 on: April 06, 2023, 05:38:39 am »
I think he is talking about the future, not the present ;)

As much as I would love to see all those liberals sent to gulags by the very people they virtue signal for, this may not happen after al.
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #56 on: April 06, 2023, 05:57:01 am »
I am not wasting 27 minutes of my life listening to a conspiracy theorist. The two minutes spent looking at the titles of his youtube channel are more than enough to convince me that it will be more productive to dig a hole in my garden and then fill it again.

Jimmy Dore used to be a host on The Young Turks  :-DD
For those who don't know, TYT are about as radical far left as you get on Youtube, and famously so.
They actually used to be pretty good 6-7 years ago or so, but then went off the Overton window deep end.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2023, 06:01:06 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Bicurico

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #57 on: April 06, 2023, 10:21:17 am »
I don't use TikTok and what I seem to understand about it, is that it is some kind of Youtube for short videos that works with some kind of credit system like Facebook. I guess it might be comparable with 9GAG?

I would really like to understand why TikTok poses such a huge risk, compared to other similar platforms?

I have seen many TikTok videos, sent through WhatsApp, Messenger, etc. Some are funny, some are not - mostly because you can quickly see that what is supposed to be a funny incident is actually a staged one. But I have not seen any danger in it, probably because I lack some extra information.

Also, what worries me more than TikTok and similar platforms is the fact that goverments understand that their population is stupid enough to be manipulated by Russia, China, etc. Even if this is the case, instead of making such platforms illegal/inaccessible, wouldn't it be better to increase awareness and analytic reasoning, instead? Why is no one complaining about the stupidification of our western societies? That worries me much more than any online platform or AI engine. Also, why is noboddy pointing out the fact that through these online platforms, minorities are able to influence their views in a quantity that is not relative to their percentage in population? I find it much more worrying that an unqualified person can publicly question peer reviewed scientific facts with only their "feeling".

So please enlighten me on why TikTok is dangerous, while the root cause is not discussed - the root cause being that people are less and less informed and defend opinions without any sustained facts, doing so on online platforms, where they reach an incredible audience.

Thank you.

Offline magic

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2023, 10:43:55 am »
I would really like to understand why TikTok poses such a huge risk, compared to other similar platforms?
Because it isn't owned by Americans.

Why is no one complaining about the stupidification of our western societies?
Because it's not a problem, but the solution.
We just need the media to be socially responsible.
Kinda hard when they are in foreign hands, huh?

Also, why is noboddy pointing out the fact that through these online platforms, minorities are able to influence their views in a quantity that is not relative to their percentage in population? I find it much more worrying that an unqualified person can publicly question peer reviewed scientific facts with only their "feeling".
It's a good thing, because they fight the nazis for us.
You wouldn't want the nazis to win?
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2023, 12:31:18 pm »
It's a good thing, because they fight the nazis for us.
You wouldn't want the nazis to win?

That's propaganda.  Nazis lost long ago, it's almost a century since then.

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #60 on: April 06, 2023, 07:38:47 pm »
Trying to refute authoritative science by starting with an authoritative ad-hoc statement "For one thing, there are no scientific facts."?  ??? Then using a recent pop word, 'factoid', to diminish the importance of peer review science.

For sure science can be questioned and should be questioned, and sometimes science might get things wrong and later fix the wrongs, but trying to "cancel" scientific facts is a very wrong attitude from you.  Those are not your own thoughts and conclusions.  Those were planted in you.  Somebody or something is misleading you.  That's propaganda.  Beware of it.

If science facts are factoids
Quote
factoid in American English
(ˈfækˌtɔɪd )
US
noun
a single fact or statistic variously regarded as being trivial, useless, unsubstantiated, etc.
Webster’s New World College Dictionary, 4th Edition. Copyright © 2010 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt. All rights reserved.
Word origin
fact + -oid
Word Frequency
factoid in American English
(ˈfæktɔid)
noun
1. an insignificant or trivial fact
2. something fictitious or unsubstantiated that is presente  Science and technology is what made the Internet possible.d as fact, devised esp. to gain publicity and accepted because of constant repetition
Most material © 2005, 1997, 1991 by Penguin Random House LLC. Modified entries © 2019 by Penguin Random House LLC and HarperCollins Publishers Ltd
Derived forms
factoidal adjective
Word origin
[1973; fact + -oid]
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/factoid

then how come that we can post online?

It's science and technology what made that possible.  If science facts are factoids, must be some darn good factoids then, since they made computers possible.

My point is, science facts do exist.  They are valuable and real.
If you know a wrong scientific fact, please point it, so to be corrected.

Trying to diminish/deny/cancel science is damaging for you.
Don't let the propaganda speak through you.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2023, 07:43:15 pm by RoGeorge »
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #61 on: April 07, 2023, 04:36:02 am »
I would really like to understand why TikTok poses such a huge risk, compared to other similar platforms?

The CCP literally have a "heat" button that can make anyting they want trend, and likewise anything they don't want to trend doesn't tend. That's literally direct control over what 80M americans see, either directly, or via slow and subtle influence. The first rule of persuasion is repetition.
Yes, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter etc can have a similar capability, but the US government does not have direct control over it. Ok, so the Twitter Files have shown that they have had some influence, but at least it's the US government enabled by a US company, not a foreign communist dictatorial goverment who is effectively your enemy.

That's not to mention to general erosion of society by the crap that is on TikTok. Go to China and use TikTok and see what content is on allowed there. Hint, it's not the crap that we see.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2023, 04:38:01 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #62 on: April 07, 2023, 05:19:00 am »

The CCP literally have a "heat" button that can make anyting they want trend, and likewise anything they don't want to trend doesn't tend. That's literally direct control over what 80M americans see, either directly, or via slow and subtle influence. The first rule of persuasion is repetition.

Is it established beyond any doubt that this direct control by the CCP is actually true? Or is it just another conspiracy fear repeated so often as if it were true that noone questions it.

I've heard that TikTok like other social media can advance their commercial interests by trending videos for particular users. But how much of a stretch is it to the CCP stepping in directly? Has it been done already?

I thought the original fear surrounding TT was the collection of user data by China.
 

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #63 on: April 07, 2023, 05:50:38 am »
Is it established beyond any doubt that this direct control by the CCP is actually true? Or is it just another conspiracy fear repeated so often as if it were true that noone questions it.

I've heard that TikTok like other social media can advance their commercial interests by trending videos for particular users. But how much of a stretch is it to the CCP stepping in directly? Has it been done already?

I thought the original fear surrounding TT was the collection of user data by China.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2023/01/20/tiktoks-secret-heating-button-can-make-anyone-go-viral/?sh=6940f0506bfd

The data collection thing is one of the issues, but is essentially a red herring.
By the very nature of the system it's really hard to get proof what's actually being done. But everyone knows that all chinese companeis are ultimately 100% controlled by the CCP, and the large companies actively have CCP party members within the organistion to make sure things get done and execute orders from higher up.
Does anyone honestly believe that the CCP isn't going to manipulate a device that is in the hands of 80M americans? If so then I have a bridge to sell you.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #64 on: April 07, 2023, 06:29:55 am »

The CCP literally have a "heat" button that can make anyting they want trend, and likewise anything they don't want to trend doesn't tend. That's literally direct control over what 80M americans see, either directly, or via slow and subtle influence. The first rule of persuasion is repetition.

Is it established beyond any doubt that this direct control by the CCP is actually true? Or is it just another conspiracy fear repeated so often as if it were true that noone questions it.

I've heard that TikTok like other social media can advance their commercial interests by trending videos for particular users. But how much of a stretch is it to the CCP stepping in directly? Has it been done already?

I thought the original fear surrounding TT was the collection of user data by China.

How dare you, stop challenging or asking like that, heck, even doubting it in your mind will "AUTOMATICALLY" turns you into CCP shill.  :-DD

Stop doubting the "ultimate truth".  >:D

Looking at the current scene, I guess you guys Ozzies down there are ready to be a nuke shield against the evil CCP, for the sake fighting CCP until the last Ozzies, for America.  :-+  :clap:

/sarc

Offline Bicurico

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #65 on: April 07, 2023, 06:49:18 am »
I would really like to understand why TikTok poses such a huge risk, compared to other similar platforms?

The CCP literally have a "heat" button that can make anyting they want trend, and likewise anything they don't want to trend doesn't tend. That's literally direct control over what 80M americans see, either directly, or via slow and subtle influence. The first rule of persuasion is repetition.
Yes, Youtube, Facebook, Twitter etc can have a similar capability, but the US government does not have direct control over it. Ok, so the Twitter Files have shown that they have had some influence, but at least it's the US government enabled by a US company, not a foreign communist dictatorial goverment who is effectively your enemy.

That's not to mention to general erosion of society by the crap that is on TikTok. Go to China and use TikTok and see what content is on allowed there. Hint, it's not the crap that we see.

Thanks Dave. I now understand the rant against TikTok.
Still, I would prefer western governments to educate people, instead of deciding what they are allowed to see.
It always amazes me, when visiting the UK, that some of my default webpages of my browser won't open, because they are considered unfit. I am talking about online forums about hacking and cyber security.
Of course I can circumvent the limitation easily, but why have such restrictions in the first place?
The same happens in Portugal, too. Local DNS providers filter Piratebay and similar, so everyone just uses Google's DNS. But then the USA will monitor what you are doing instead of your government... :phew:

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #66 on: April 07, 2023, 01:18:13 pm »
https://www.forbes.com/sites/emilybaker-white/2023/01/20/tiktoks-secret-heating-button-can-make-anyone-go-viral/?sh=6940f0506bfd

Quote
Heating also reveals that, at least sometimes, videos on the For You page aren’t there because TikTok thinks you’ll like them; instead, they're there because TikTok wants a particular brand or creator to get more views. And without labels, like those used for ads and sponsored content, it’s impossible to tell which is which.

OK.  How is that different from YouTube recommended/promoted videos?

Quote
Employees have also abused heating privileges. Three sources told Forbes they were aware of instances where heating was used improperly by employees; one said that employees have been known to heat their own or their spouses’ accounts in violation of company policy. Documents reviewed by Forbes showed that employees have heated their own accounts, as well as accounts of people with whom they have personal relationships.

Twitter did the same and much more.  Facebook did some things regarding Brexit, and so on.  The entire article is a big "we don't like TikTok because it's not under our control".  TikTok might be bad, but nothing is revealed there.  "Three insiders told us", not 2, not 4, precisely 3.  And how is that relevant?  What this article reveals?  That TikTok does the same as other social media platforms?  How is that a reason to propose dystopian Internet laws?  Because a TikTok admin promoted own uncle's video we should ban VPN?  WTF?

I got it, they fear TikTok might take all their users, and their direct influence upon users.  Fair enough to not like competition.

What I don't understand is what experiment is going on there, in Australia.  It's some cleverly crafted instigation going on there, I think.  Even here, on EEVblog, I've seen once a threat to nuke China, in a fight between two keyboard warriors.  The anger levels against China seem to be very high in Australia.  It seems to me like something, or somebody, is heating up Australia against China, and that is happening at higher rates than on other continents, no idea why.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2023, 01:25:38 pm by RoGeorge »
 

Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #67 on: April 07, 2023, 10:59:27 pm »

What I don't understand is what experiment is going on there, in Australia.  It's some cleverly crafted instigation going on there, I think.  Even here, on EEVblog, I've seen once a threat to nuke China, in a fight between two keyboard warriors.  The anger levels against China seem to be very high in Australia.  It seems to me like something, or somebody, is heating up Australia against China, and that is happening at higher rates than on other continents, no idea why.

It's mostly coming from our corrupt, lock-step media. Because reporting on facts and the true state of the world is boring.
iratus parum formica
 

Offline SiliconWizard

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #68 on: April 07, 2023, 11:31:18 pm »
Does anyone honestly believe that the CCP isn't going to manipulate a device that is in the hands of 80M americans? If so then I have a bridge to sell you.

Of course. Now what I'm still not sure about is the intentions of the CCP. While pretty totalitarian in nature, I have no clue what their plans are really outside of their own borders.
I mean, while the US has had a pretty clear strategy of exporting their model wherever they could, China hasn't really shown such a thing.
I may be wrong though. It's pretty opaque what they do.

My impression is that whatever they would do to manipulate foreign countries would be strictly to defend their own rather than try to "take over the world".
Not that it necessarily makes such manipulation more acceptable, but just a thought.
And this is just an impression - I have zero clue what their plans are for the future.

And TikTok is a plague whatever there is behind it.
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #69 on: April 08, 2023, 01:43:38 am »

The data collection thing is one of the issues, but is essentially a red herring.
By the very nature of the system it's really hard to get proof what's actually being done. But everyone knows that all chinese companeis are ultimately 100% controlled by the CCP, and the large companies actively have CCP party members within the organistion to make sure things get done and execute orders from higher up.
Does anyone honestly believe that the CCP isn't going to manipulate a device that is in the hands of 80M americans? If so then I have a bridge to sell you.

Well I don't discount the CCP might manipulate 80M Americans TikTok users. But, what would they stand to gain from it? I am far more likely to believe CCP members within the ranks of a large business are there to get rich. In which case they would benefit from the business success as a money making venture free from close scrutiny of foreign regulators.

If you see the Chinese premier starting a campaign to weed out corrupt party officials then you can be sure money is at the bottom of it. Whether it is fear of the people getting angry seeing party officials taking bribes and disadvantaging ordinary people through unfavourable decisions. Or a personal fear that overt corruption will derail the gravy train he himself rides on.

The great fear of the CCP is losing power. Therin lies the reasons they would do something. China has an imbalanced aging population demographic and insufficient local resources to ensure ongoing economic growth at levels that will ensure the people gain increased living standards at a rate that guarantees peaceful social compliance. This fear was demonstrated with the social unrest surrounding the COVID zero policy, and it is significant that the government relaxed the policy pretty smartly in response to the outpouring of dissent.

China has at least as many internal problems as America to confront that will not be solved by manipulating TikTok users. America is in an irreversible "decline of empire" and shows all the signs it is on a mirror trajectory of all past great empires. It too will join them. Both superpowers will begin to fade in supremacy and China will not enjoy a position on top for long if at all.

1.Creation of debt
2.Internal conflict
3.Massive rise in military spending as a percentage of GDP to preserve existing power

America suffers all of these and China is struggling to suppress the second and will spend more on military in an attempt to grasp supremacy as a world superpower.
The surest way the CCP can ensure internal unrest is not a problem for their hold on power, is to ensure economic growth is strong. TikTok as a viable business is part of that strategy. Positioning themselves at the heart of global supply chains is another. Hence the US semiconductor policy and US funding of Australian rare earths supply and so on.

Scaremongering and conspiracy theories about TikTok is just another distraction.
 

Offline Sredni

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #70 on: April 08, 2023, 01:56:35 am »
America is in an irreversible "decline of empire" and shows all the signs it is on a mirror trajectory of all past great empires. It too will join them. Both superpowers will begin to fade in supremacy and China will not enjoy a position on top for long if at all.

Antarctica will rise!
Then we'll teach all you northerners the real meaning of 'cold war'!!!
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Offline Ed.Kloonk

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #71 on: April 08, 2023, 02:01:35 am »
I've always been suspicious of those little damn penguins.
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Offline all_repair

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2023, 06:28:02 am »
It is a religion to anti-Tiktok.  No need evidences, and ignore past evidences.  No reasoning needed, is a faith.  Keep it.
 

Offline RoGeorge

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2023, 07:42:55 am »
Antarctica will rise!

"Here be Monsters"  :scared:


Aliens!  I knew it.  ;D

Online EEVblogTopic starter

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Re: EEVblog TikTok
« Reply #74 on: April 09, 2023, 10:11:18 am »
Well I don't discount the CCP might manipulate 80M Americans TikTok users. But, what would they stand to gain from it?

*darth vader voice* I find your lack of imagination disturbing.
 


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