Author Topic: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!  (Read 6813 times)

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Offline Halcyon

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EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« on: March 03, 2018, 05:53:54 am »


To be honest Dave, you should have just left that steaming pile of crap in the dumpster ;-)

I had to suffer through using one of those at work for a week. There was nothing that great about it and some of the design decisions must have been made when they were all high on something.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 05:55:30 am by Halcyon »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #1 on: March 03, 2018, 05:56:28 am »


 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2018, 05:57:26 am »
Installing the new High Sierra update now from the Apple store.

Will that nuke everything in the process? (hoping so, I want a fresh install)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 06:00:17 am by EEVblog »
 

Online MasterTech

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2018, 06:03:49 am »
Amazing computer to work with. Imac has been my main home computer for 10 years now, clone the HDD and install an SSD, itll go much faster

An OS reinstall cleans up everything
https://www.imore.com/how-to-prepare-mac-for-sale
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 06:32:32 am by MasterTech »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2018, 07:45:11 am »
Amazing computer to work with. Imac has been my main home computer for 10 years now, clone the HDD and install an SSD, itll go much faster

An OS reinstall cleans up everything
https://www.imore.com/how-to-prepare-mac-for-sale

Will try that, thanks. Hope it works, because the verification didn't work as I said above with the Apple store login.
 

Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2018, 08:20:10 am »
You should absolutely consider dropping in an SSD!
This will give you a quick machine that is quite on par with the newer models since the hard drive is the bottle neck on these machines.
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 

Offline hans

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2018, 08:35:57 am »
Performance wise, this shouldn't be half a bad machine:

http://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i5-760-vs-Intel-Pentium-G4560/m717vs3892

Sure you wouldn't buy a Pentium today to do heavy development work on it, but if you're just testing out an application (I suppose software for one of your [future] instruments!) and fixing porting issues, I think this machine will be fine.

However you may want to check if this machine still gets support for up to the latest Mac OS versions. This could have been a good reason (apart from high-speed data connectivity on such an old machine) to upgrade for someone. But if these machines are still selling for 500$+ on Ebay, chances are it's still good (and/or 'refurbished Apple products' are overpriced)
 

Online MasterTech

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2018, 09:07:50 am »
That computer is clearly bloated with software installed by previous owners. If you can't get to reinstall, you'll have to get someone acquainted with macos and unix shell commands to do a thorough clean up of some things under /Users, /Applications, /private, /var, /Library/StartupItems, /Library/LaunchDaemons, /System/Library/StartupItems, etc, etc...
 

Online nctnico

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2018, 02:47:57 pm »
Before cleaning the HD check for cryptocoins!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline eNBeWe

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2018, 03:21:14 pm »
Hi,

some traps for young mac players  ;) (I am no pro mac user but I have to service some at work):

a) If you want to swap the disk for an SSD, make sure you create some USB install stick first. You can usually recover macOS/OS X from some recovery partition, but for fresh drives that won't work. To get the stick you can follow this guide: https://www.macworld.com/article/3204672/macs/how-to-create-a-bootable-macos-high-sierra-installer-drive.html
b) Some macs are quite specific about the USB port for the keyboard during recovery. If you run into problems you can check the first or last USB for your keyboard.
c) To boot from USB you need to press left alt at power up until you get the boot menu. You can also use that to boot some linux stick.
d) If you open it up, you might want to replace the thermal paste on the main components. I recently bought a Mac mini about that age and faced constant overheating and throttling.

Regards,
eNBeWe
« Last Edit: March 03, 2018, 04:27:24 pm by eNBeWe »
 

Offline k2teknik

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2018, 05:45:43 pm »
But how to open a Mac to change the Harddrive?
 

Offline firewalker

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2018, 06:01:25 pm »
The screen is magnetically held in place. It can be lifted with a suction cup.

Alexander.
Become a realist, stay a dreamer.

 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2018, 06:50:12 pm »
The screen is magnetically held in place. It can be lifted with a suction cup.

Alexander.

Use two - the type with a handle and an activating lever that are sold either for fitting sheets of glass or pulling dents out of car bodywork. There are locating pins - only pull vertically. ifixit.com is the place for photo references on how to do this.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Halcyon

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2018, 11:31:21 pm »
But how to open a Mac to change the Harddrive?

Modern ones are a pain, I'm not sure about this particular model (others have pointed out that magnets are used) but newer ones use glue/double-sided tape just like smart phones. They are an absolute punish to repair or upgrade. Also, they have started soldering SSD drives to the motherboard. Apple have no interest in making it easy for users to upgrade their older machines.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2018, 11:34:56 pm »
FYI the hard drive has been nuked and a new install of High Sierra installed.
It's got 20GB of RAM and a 7200RPM drive.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2018, 11:58:21 pm »
FYI the hard drive has been nuked and a new install of High Sierra installed.
It's got 20GB of RAM and a 7200RPM drive.
The 20 GB or RAM suggests it was used for more than just mundane tasks. An SSD should be a nice upgrade. Even though it's not the newest processor, it was very good at the time. Combined with the fact that the market has mostly moved at a glacial pace, it should still be a reasonable computer. Plenty good for day to day tasks and certainly good enough for compatibility testing.
 
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Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2018, 09:14:55 am »
An SSD should be a nice upgrade.

Can’t tell you why, but the performance boost you get from an SSD upgrade in these machines is stellar compared to regular PCs.
I am still running an early 2008 Mac Pro dual Xeon with 32Gb RAM as my main machine and a mid 2009 i7 Macbook Pro 13'' with 16Gb RAM for taking to customers and even 3D visualization while traveling.
Both where to be considered EOL with the old hard drives, but dropping in an SSD gave them an incredible boost. Did not even consider getting something newer in the past couple of years!
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 
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Offline hans

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2018, 10:20:22 am »
I remember fellow electronics vlog Gerry Sweeney doing a SSD upgrade some time ago on his 27" iMac:



As you can see it's quite well documented, but also a lengthy process as it requires careful removal and storage of the front (glass) display panel
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 10:22:29 am by hans »
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 04:11:11 pm by GeorgeOfTheJungle »
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2018, 11:21:28 am »
You don't need a "fruity" keyboard, any PC keyboard will do. The windows key is the cmd key, and the alt key is the option key. It just works.
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2018, 11:23:40 pm »
You don't need a "fruity" keyboard, any PC keyboard will do. The windows key is the cmd key, and the alt key is the option key. It just works.

Anything USB will work,
and -BONUS- you get the Right Click function using a Windows mouse,
not the usual two handed acrobatics   -hold down Cntr key and click mouse-    MacCircus   :palm:

The Mac may/will ask to identify the non-Mac keyboard, just follow the on screen directions, press a couple of indicated keys, job done.

My bet is that sluggish Mac needs a hard drive erase and one pass total wipe with Mac Disk Utility, then a fresh install, and should be up to the task OP needs it for

without blowing money on an SSD and the pain and time wasted taking one of those glossy Macmoneypits apart    |O


EDIT: have you tried booting the Mac, wait for the chime (DONG...) and immediately hold down the Alt key and see what boot and recovery options there are


« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 11:26:43 pm by Electro Detective »
 

Offline drussell

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2018, 01:40:45 am »
...
without blowing money on an SSD and the pain and time wasted taking one of those glossy Macmoneypits apart

The first thing I would do is install smartmontools on it and use smartctl to see how many power on hours are on the disk.  If the machine was used heavily and on all the time the drive is probably close to the end of its useful, reliable lifetime anyway.  I would certainly replace it if it has failing SMART attributes or if it is showing errors in the log, large numbers of re-allocations, etc.

That, combined with the speed increase with even an inexpensive SSD, it is probably well worth the effort.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2018, 01:52:01 am »
If you put any value on your time, I don't see any reason not to go for an SSD any more. They're not the exclusive, expensive hardware they used to be any longer. At this point, you need a reason not to go for them.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2018, 05:13:05 am »
The magnets around the edge of the screen are what holds it together.

No, really. That's how allergic they are to visible screws.  :palm:

I've got no idea where to pull to get one apart but that's a clue.

(don't take your degausser near it when it's in a vertical position...)
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 05:15:35 am by Fungus »
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2018, 10:58:51 am »
You can make the app with phonegap/cordoba, so that you write it once and runs everywhere, ios and android.
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2018, 03:38:06 pm »
To know exactly what iMac that is and all its characteristics, 1) Goto applications/utilities/system profiler and copy the model identifier, it's something like "iMac11,3" or "iMac13,2" or something, and 2) download MacTracker and paste there the identifier.
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Offline rrinker

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2018, 04:03:49 pm »
 The CPU and the spinny hard disk from that time may bot be the duck's guts, but 20MB RAM is not shabby at all, and a 27" LCD was a pretty big deal at the time.
 SSDs make everything more gooder. I am positively annoyed when working with any machine that doesn't have an SSD these days, everything takes forever, it seems. Only thing I have without an SSD is my server (SSDs may not be ridiculously expensive these days, but 14TB worth of them are! Plus I rarely reboot the thing).

 

Offline HAnilsen

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2018, 09:47:03 pm »
I recommend changing to an SSD. Any standard SATA SSD will work, but you'll need to buy a temperature sensor, otherwise your iMac will run the fans at full speed. This is the temperature kit for your model.
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DIDIMACHDD09/

Should you like to run a hard drive AND an SSD in your iMac, here's a kit that allows both. (In that case you don't need the temperature sensor kit since you're using the original hard drive sensor, unless you're replacing the hard drive too)
https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/DIYIM27SSD10/

If you want to install macOS on a brand new hard drive/SSD you'll need to create a bootable USB drive. Here's the procedure for doing that.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201372

Here's how you install macOS.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204904
 
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Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2018, 10:23:43 pm »
For what DJ stated in the video he needs it for, he shouldn't spend a cent or break a sweat on a working freebie that appears to only require a disk wipe,

and a new install of a Mac OS that is compatible with his multimeter software, which may not be the latest High Sierra   

Once DJ sees how Macs 'just work' and pretty much not much more as far as flexibility, user control and hardware access goes,
I am confident he won't consider leaving the Windows camp any time soon    ;D

 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2018, 10:34:59 pm »
For what DJ stated in the video he needs it for, he shouldn't spend a cent or break a sweat on a working freebie that appears to only require a disk wipe,

and a new install of a Mac OS that is compatible with his multimeter software, which may not be the latest High Sierra   

Once DJ sees how Macs 'just work' and pretty much not much more as far as flexibility, user control and hardware access goes,
I am confident he won't consider leaving the Windows camp any time soon    ;D

All correct.
And as far as using a Mac for editing and rendering etc goes, this is an 8 year old Mac and the latest version is apparently just over twice as fast. Hopeless. I'll take my current editing machine any day of the week.
I have the latest version of High Sierra installed, presumably the same as all other macs.

« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 10:39:46 pm by EEVblog »
 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2018, 10:45:52 pm »
I'm afraid it was in the dumpster for some reason : mostly there imacs had graphic card problems (more on the 2011 model)
you will get mosaics, or black screen soon.
if it had 20Gb of RAM, it was to someone using it intensively.
if you send me the serial number in PM, I can check if it has already been for repair somewhere.


oh and yes the best thing to do is install an ssd to replace the 7200rpm drive. only if the graphic card is still ok...
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 10:55:06 pm by kripton2035 »
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2018, 02:17:57 am »
FWIW I've brought back a few of those suss screen Macs from DOA City,
the owners needing a cheap temp solution don't mind giving the unit a love tap or two if/when the screen blanks out occasionally due to graphics card
or cold/hot and  iffy internal connector issues,
rather than buying a new Mac, or blowing big dollars getting the sucker disassembled and or re-mobo'D   :--    at the price of a new Mac


If this 27' has 20 gigs of ram it may be a 16 gig and the original 4 gig stick in it,

assuming the original 2 x 2 gig sticks were Ebay'd and who knows what's in there now  = ???

The ram should be easy as pie to get to IIRC with the correct jewellers screwdriver and tactical tongue angle  :P   (very important)

There should be a compartment perforated grill thingie below the s@xy screen, maybe a Youtube video is the way to go on that 


Anyways, you may do better trying just the one stick, either the 16 or 4 (I would go the 4 first) but not both. 

If one ram is double sided and the other single, and the Mac hardware version can't cope with a 16 and 4 combo too well anyway, it's worth a try if it still boots/runs slow 


Now that High Sierra is on there, reboot the Mac, wait for the chime (DONG...) and immediately hold down the Alt key and see what boot and recovery options there are,
most likely you may be able to get into the 'Disk Utility' and suss out the hard disk,
with options for Repair, erase, security wipe,
and a fresh install option with all previous stuff gone.

 

Offline Harb

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2018, 06:10:33 am »
I have over 30 Macs of every size shape and model.........We do a lot, and I mean a lot of Video editing, and I would never go back to PC again..........Our slowest Mac is magnitudes better than our PC's which are now all stacked in the store room (And for the record, all the PC's were custom built for what we do.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2018, 09:54:30 am »
If the PCs aren't performing, they either aren't set up right, and or bogged down with bloatware or silly updates gone south

Macs are a 'PC' with their own OS, makes you wonder why they dumped their previous OS and 'Apple' hardware.

A properly tuned average PC can leave most Macs in the dust with most apps, been there.

The Macs rely on simplicity from their users using a few behaving apps, and less browser issues, plus loads of ram and SSD drives to get them 'moving',

end of story   

« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 10:09:04 am by Electro Detective »
 

Online MasterTech

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2018, 10:24:14 am »
Macs are a 'PC' with their own OS

Not only is the hardware properly integrated in a Mac but here is the news, the OS is nowadays the most important part of any computer/phone/tablet, although I understand that every Windows and Android user wants to quicky leave this fact aside. So while I enjoy an amazing APFS you are still stuck with NTFS, what about memory management? where do I start.... just try not booting a PC everyday and keep it running without reboots for a couple of months like I do with my macbook pro.

I've been a PC sufferer and a Mac user tooooooooo long to know the differences and I'm not going back.

end of story.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2018, 10:29:18 am by MasterTech »
 

Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2018, 11:56:40 am »
begin("Mac vs PC flame war");
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Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2018, 01:37:10 pm »
end;
 
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2018, 02:10:28 pm »
And as far as using a Mac for editing and rendering etc goes, this is an 8 year old Mac and the latest version is apparently just over twice as fast. Hopeless. I'll take my current editing machine any day of the week.

Dave, don't you know that in a Mac, with the proper software, the CPU benchmark has ~ nothing to do with video rendering speeds? It's the GPU that matters most... (and I/O speeds too => SSD)
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2018, 03:42:05 pm »
Dave, don't you know that in a Mac, with the proper software, the CPU benchmark has ~ nothing to do with video rendering speeds? It's the GPU that matters most... (and I/O speeds too => SSD)
The GPU in any remotely recent AIO Mac was amemic at best, even at the time of release.
 

Offline Bud

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #39 on: March 06, 2018, 03:48:58 pm »
Dunno about MAC but on PC i did not notice killer speed improvement using SSD. Performance test software may show you something but in daily use i saw no noticable improvement. Beside maybe lower power consumption and being silent - no.
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Offline GeorgeOfTheJungle

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #40 on: March 06, 2018, 03:52:31 pm »
Dave, don't you know that in a Mac, with the proper software, the CPU benchmark has ~ nothing to do with video rendering speeds? It's the GPU that matters most... (and I/O speeds too => SSD)
The GPU in any remotely recent AIO Mac was amemic at best, even at the time of release.

Yes, anemic for playing games but not necessarily so much for video encoding/decoding tasks.
The further a society drifts from truth, the more it will hate those who speak it.
 
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Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #41 on: March 06, 2018, 04:24:35 pm »
Dunno about MAC but on PC i did not notice killer speed improvement using SSD. Performance test software may show you something but in daily use i saw no noticable improvement. Beside maybe lower power consumption and being silent - no.
There's a huge improvement. Boot times drop to a handful of seconds and starting programs is pretty much instant. Something like starting Photoshop can take minutes on a traditional HDD and seconds when using an SSD. It's very obvious when you're used to an SSD and have to use a system without one.
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #42 on: March 06, 2018, 05:53:48 pm »
I was gonna comment on that but I bit my tongue instead. It HAS to be a troll.
 

Offline Monkeh

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #43 on: March 06, 2018, 06:13:55 pm »
And as far as using a Mac for editing and rendering etc goes, this is an 8 year old Mac and the latest version is apparently just over twice as fast. Hopeless. I'll take my current editing machine any day of the week.

Dave, don't you know that in a Mac, with the proper software, the CPU benchmark has ~ nothing to do with video rendering speeds? It's the GPU that matters most... (and I/O speeds too => SSD)

What, you mean using GPU acceleration on a Mac works just like using GPU acceleration on a PC?

I'm shocked.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #44 on: March 06, 2018, 10:52:50 pm »
Dunno about MAC but on PC i did not notice killer speed improvement using SSD.

Performance test software may show you something but in daily use i saw no noticable improvement.

Beside maybe lower power consumption and being silent - no.


There's a huge improvement. Boot times drop to a handful of seconds and starting programs is pretty much instant.
Something like starting Photoshop can take minutes on a traditional HDD and seconds when using an SSD.
It's very obvious when you're used to an SSD and have to use a system without one.



umm...yeah, I'm sorta with Bud on that,
besides the quick boot times and app startups, I don't really see much if any improvement when actually using the apps
Processor speed and memory handling are still king to get work done IMO, regardless of whizzbang hard drive speeds
Losing a lot of useless background processes helps too  :phew:

and yes I've played with 4200, 5400, 7200, 10k and 15k drives in all flavours and SSDs.

Boring 7200 RPMs still work for me   :clap: 
till a box of cheap large capacity unloved model SSDs pop up on Ebay or Officeworks     ;D



cough...if we're going to sort of 'go there'... if Mac shiny hardware and spinning beachballs of death OS are so-o-o great, then why do serious high performance Mac OS users go Hackintosh?   :-[

And no, being a cheapskate isn't an answer, although in a few cases it probably began that way    ;)


In case viewers missed it, DJ specified a working Mac that will most likely sit in the corner of the lab somewhere till it's needed for the multimeter software.
And once it's all geared up and working, I strongly suggest at that point to sacrifice about an hour to go into the Mac detailed 'Preferences', get familiar with it,
take hard copy notes of changes/selections, and lose ALL the auto sneaky update BS,
and a Time Machine (think 'System Restore'-ish type of program) save of Before and After this is done,
and then disable the Time Machine auto function, so it doesn't eventually auto delete all that precautionary work as old images   =>     |O


FWIW if he ever decides to jump Windows ship in say... 150 15 years time... better off to give Linux a shot first rather than get Mackered   


By then, owning a Mac may be 'Subscription Based',

the 'subscriber' fitted with an i-Collar  (electronic tracking collar) on their neck, in case they do a runner on the lifetime payments   >:D

 

Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #45 on: March 06, 2018, 11:35:40 pm »
There's a huge improvement. Boot times drop to a handful of seconds and starting programs is pretty much instant. Something like starting Photoshop can take minutes on a traditional HDD and seconds when using an SSD. It's very obvious when you're used to an SSD and have to use a system without one.

You are right, just add him to your ignore list as I have, you won't waste time or thought for no benefit.
 

Online tooki

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #46 on: March 19, 2018, 07:55:19 pm »
The magnets around the edge of the screen are what holds it together.

No, really. That's how allergic they are to visible screws.  :palm:

I've got no idea where to pull to get one apart but that's a clue.

(don't take your degausser near it when it's in a vertical position...)
What’s wrong with using magnets? I love using magnets in projects. It’s a great way to have invisible fasteners while avoiding adhesives.
 

Online tooki

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #47 on: March 19, 2018, 07:59:47 pm »
For what DJ stated in the video he needs it for, he shouldn't spend a cent or break a sweat on a working freebie that appears to only require a disk wipe,

and a new install of a Mac OS that is compatible with his multimeter software, which may not be the latest High Sierra   

Once DJ sees how Macs 'just work' and pretty much not much more as far as flexibility, user control and hardware access goes,
I am confident he won't consider leaving the Windows camp any time soon    ;D

All correct.
And as far as using a Mac for editing and rendering etc goes, this is an 8 year old Mac and the latest version is apparently just over twice as fast. Hopeless. I'll take my current editing machine any day of the week.
I have the latest version of High Sierra installed, presumably the same as all other macs.


Bear in mind that Apple’s video editing software has, for years and years now, relied on GPU acceleration to largely eliminate rendering altogether. In the end it has to be output to h.264, which is where you’d really see this machine’s age. (I’m pretty sure an ‘09 iMac does not have hardware h.264 encoding in the GPU.) But that’s the hands-off part; almost all the stuff you do in front of the screen interactively should be real-time, or storage-bound.
 

Online tooki

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #48 on: March 19, 2018, 08:02:54 pm »
An SSD should be a nice upgrade.

Can’t tell you why, but the performance boost you get from an SSD upgrade in these machines is stellar compared to regular PCs.
I am still running an early 2008 Mac Pro dual Xeon with 32Gb RAM as my main machine and a mid 2009 i7 Macbook Pro 13'' with 16Gb RAM for taking to customers and even 3D visualization while traveling.
Both where to be considered EOL with the old hard drives, but dropping in an SSD gave them an incredible boost. Did not even consider getting something newer in the past couple of years!
I’m still using my 2008 Mac Pro as well. 26GB RAM, upgraded storage, and a much more recent GPU (haven’t even bothered flashing it, it’s a big-standard AMD card intended for a PC), and it runs great.

The only real limitation is that it doesn’t support the newest OS any more, and I’ve been too lazy to hack it, as many have done.
 

Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #49 on: March 19, 2018, 08:14:45 pm »
The only real limitation is that it doesn’t support the newest OS any more, and I’ve been too lazy to hack it, as many have done.

I am also still on 10.11.6 and Parallels with W7 x64 - since everything I need is running fine, I do not see a reason why I should update to Sierra or High Sierra at the moment. In the current setup I have a bunch of extra kernel modules etc. and I am not willing to deal with the new issues to be faced in 10.12 / .13 right now :)
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 

Online tooki

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #50 on: March 19, 2018, 08:21:05 pm »
The only real limitation is that it doesn’t support the newest OS any more, and I’ve been too lazy to hack it, as many have done.

I am also still on 10.11.6 and Parallels with W7 x64 - since everything I need is running fine, I do not see a reason why I should update to Sierra or High Sierra at the moment. In the current setup I have a bunch of extra kernel modules etc. and I am not willing to deal with the new issues to be faced in 10.12 / .13 right now :)
There are quite a few nice features in newer OS versions. (Especially in terms of integration with iOS. Not to mention that some applications are now being built only for newer OSes, and that security updates aren’t really forthcoming any more, other than super severe ones.)

Also, I hate building a mountain of technical debt. Jumping 3 OS versions is going be to much more problematic than one at a time.
 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #51 on: March 20, 2018, 07:29:52 pm »
10.12 is quite OK, but 10.13 if bug full ... dont know if it will work "normaly" one day ?


note: I'm working on a 10.11.6
 

Online tooki

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #52 on: March 21, 2018, 02:11:52 am »
10.12 is quite OK, but 10.13 if bug full ... dont know if it will work "normaly" one day ?
I've got 10.13 running on my MacBook Air and it works great. Hasn't been buggy for me whatsoever.
 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #53 on: March 21, 2018, 07:04:05 am »
try to run a ftp server on it (without buying commercial app)
try to scan from an "old" multifunction network scanner to it
try to install a (samsung) ssd drive on récent imac and try to format it (you can't even see the hardware)
lets talk about the security failures of the root account that has since been corrected but ?
lets talk about the admin password that is mandatory now, and what happens when you migrate an old system that does not have a password ;) ?
lets talk about filevault that crypt the entire volume and external volumes without the user knowing it ?
lets talk about installing it in a mixed network environment ?
lets talk about launching own apple technicians utility apps that does not detect a 10.13 to check for a bad video card ?
lets talk about connecting some hdmi projectors to a 10.13 iMac that cuts the display in half (and work perfectly on the same hardware and 10.12) ?

but yes it can run on many machines without problem as many peoples use it .
Just there are really many problems with it that weren't here before.
 
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #54 on: March 21, 2018, 02:54:11 pm »
I'll forget the rest of your rant because it's clear that you've just got a peculiar chip on your shoulder about Apple.

But I will address one particular point:

try to run a ftp server on it (without buying commercial app)

Why on earth do you think that a platform that has as its backbone a variety of Unix would lack non-commercial software? That's an insane belief. There's even a choice of several flavours of pre-packaged open software repositories: homebrew, MacPorts and Fink. In homebrew there's a choice of 4 ftp servers:  proftpd, pure-ftpd, tnftpd, and vsftpd. Installing one of those would require the arduous and complicated task of typing: brew install packagename, which will download, install and configure the package in less time than it takes to go and get a glass of water.

Here, I'll try it:

Quote

-prompt-redacted$ time brew install proftpd
Updating Homebrew...
==> Downloading https://homebrew.bintray.com/bottles/proftpd-1.3.6.el_capitan.bottle.tar.gz
==> Downloading from https://akamai.bintray.com/4a/4ac3a9a6ab8a21e05d82fefae042d7b94e920d5f3d172485202364b489d9d629?__gd
######################################################################## 100.0%
==> Pouring proftpd-1.3.6.el_capitan.bottle.tar.gz
==> Caveats
To have launchd start proftpd now and restart at login:
  brew services start proftpd
Or, if you don't want/need a background service you can just run:
  proftpd
==> Summary
  /usr/local/Cellar/proftpd/1.3.6: 102 files, 3.1MB

real   0m20.943s
user   0m3.445s
sys   0m1.946s

Yup, less time than it's take to walk to the kitchen and back. How about removing it (as I don't really want it):

Quote

-prompt-redacted$ time brew remove proftpd
Uninstalling /usr/local/Cellar/proftpd/1.3.6... (102 files, 3.1MB)

real   0m2.441s
user   0m1.164s
sys   0m0.422s


So an ftp server downloaded, installed, and uninstalled in under half a minute. Note that i didn't even need to go to a browser window and search for one, I just typed:

Quote

-prompt-redacted$ brew search ftpd
==> Searching local taps...
proftpd                       pure-ftpd                     tnftpd                        vsftpd
==> Searching taps on GitHub...
==> Searching blacklisted, migrated and deleted formulae...


So yeah, massive hurdles to cross to run an ftp server, especially a non-commercial one, not!
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 
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Online Brumby

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #55 on: March 21, 2018, 03:40:16 pm »
Do we call you kriptonite, now?
 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #56 on: March 21, 2018, 08:14:48 pm »
@Cerebus : thanks for this trick, but it seems to work reliably only since january ... will try it by my customer.
by the way, I'm not a Unix guy, didnt think using that. (and it wouldnt have work at the time I needed it...)
I don't have any particular rant about apple , only lots of things that worked in previous systems, that do not work now in 10.13
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #57 on: March 21, 2018, 09:11:52 pm »
@Cerebus : thanks for this trick, but it seems to work reliably only since january ... will try it by my customer.
by the way, I'm not a Unix guy, didnt think using that. (and it wouldnt have work at the time I needed it...)
I don't have any particular rant about apple , only lots of things that worked in previous systems, that do not work now in 10.13

Obviously, you'll have to download and install the homebrew tools, but those ought to take care of sorting out any permissions and configuration necessary to make it all work.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #58 on: March 22, 2018, 10:59:32 pm »
try to run a ftp server on it (without buying commercial app)

I'll admit that I was annoyed when I found out that a machine upgraded to High Sierra no longer had an ftp server. The thing is, ftp is so insecure that it has been replaced by newer, better protocols. Unfortunately, I have something that uses ftp to copy data to a remote server, and that server was one of my Macs. But as Cerebus notes, it's simple enough to install the ftp server software from homebrew, which is what i did.

Quote
try to scan from an "old" multifunction network scanner to it

Blame the manufacturer of that scanner for not keeping drivers updated, not Apple.

Quote
lets talk about the security failures of the root account that has since been corrected but ?

Yes, that was a particularly dumb error, but once it was reported, it was immediately fixed.

Quote
lets talk about the admin password that is mandatory now, and what happens when you migrate an old system that does not have a password ;) ?

macOS is Unix; admin (root) passwords have been required since the first version of OS X.

[quote[lets talk about filevault that crypt the entire volume and external volumes without the user knowing it ?[/quote]

That's disabled by default, it does not get turned on without user intervention and admin access, and the System Preferences page for it is very explicit about the need for the user to remember a login password to use the disk. (As of High Sierra, it also gives you the option of generating a recovery key so you can decrypt the disk.)

Quote
lets talk about installing it in a mixed network environment ?

Sure, let's, as the MacBook Pro I am typing this on right now is on a network running a Windows Domain server, and I can access Windows shares on the network with my domain login. And I can access the Mac's disk from the Windows 7 machine on my desk just using my Mac user login.

Quote
lets talk about launching own apple technicians utility apps that does not detect a 10.13 to check for a bad video card ?

I've never had a bad video card, so I cannot comment.

Quote
lets talk about connecting some hdmi projectors to a 10.13 iMac that cuts the display in half (and work perfectly on the same hardware and 10.12) ?

My wife regularly connects her MacBook Pro running 10.13 to all sorts of projectors, over HDMI and DVI, and has not mentioned that problem. Perhaps you have to spend 30 seconds in the Displays System Preference after connecting the projector to ensure everything is set up?

Oh, and by the way, my wife tells me that at every conference she attends, there is always someone with a Windows laptop who simply can't get their machines to talk to projector. It's always a problem.

Any more?

 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #59 on: March 22, 2018, 11:02:07 pm »
10.12 is quite OK, but 10.13 if bug full ... dont know if it will work "normaly" one day ?

I run 10.13 on a 2017 Macbook Pro and a 2012 Mac mini. My wife runs it on her 2015 MacBook Pro. It also runs on an old Core 2 Duo Mac mini in our TV room. No problems, especially now that they're on 10.13.3. Maybe if you had specific bugs to report, maybe we can tell you whether we ran into them, and if so, what we did to solve them.
 

Offline Bassman59

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2018, 11:12:49 pm »
cough...if we're going to sort of 'go there'... if Mac shiny hardware and spinning beachballs of death OS are so-o-o great, then why do serious high performance Mac OS users go Hackintosh?   :-[

Some users build Hackintoshes because Apple hasn't been bothered to refresh the Mac Pro line in five years. Instead, they come out with an iMac Pro, forgetting that professional users would prefer the tower form factor. (I'd like to see a new mini, too!).

But Hackintoshes are always a crapshoot, and if you value stability, it's the wrong way to go.

Quote
and a Time Machine (think 'System Restore'-ish type of program) save of Before and After this is done,
and then disable the Time Machine auto function, so it doesn't eventually auto delete all that precautionary work as old images

Seriously: Time Machine is the killer macOS feature. It has saved my bacon several times. Why Microsoft hasn't put a feature like that into Windows is baffling.

If there is a concern that you might need to go back to the machine's fresh state, it might be worth doing a Time Machine backup of the new install onto an external hard disk, and then putting that hard disk on the shelf for later. But then use another disk (either local or on a NAS) and let Time Machine do its thing. It works. It really does.

Did the hard disk in your machine die? Install a new one, and when you boot into the recovery mode, tell it to restore from Time Machine backup. When the restore is complete, it'll be just as it was at the time of that last backup.

Got a new machine? When setting up, you'll be asked if you want to restore from another machine's Time Machine backup.

Deleted a file or an email? Go into Time Machine, get it back.

Quote
FWIW if he ever decides to jump Windows ship in say... 150 15 years time... better off to give Linux a shot first rather than get Mackered   

By then, owning a Mac may be 'Subscription Based',

the 'subscriber' fitted with an i-Collar  (electronic tracking collar) on their neck, in case they do a runner on the lifetime payments   >:D

Now you're just being ridiculous.
 
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Online tooki

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Re: EEVblog2 - Dumpster Diving - 27" Apple iMac WOW!
« Reply #61 on: March 23, 2018, 09:26:21 pm »
Quote
and a Time Machine (think 'System Restore'-ish type of program) save of Before and After this is done,
and then disable the Time Machine auto function, so it doesn't eventually auto delete all that precautionary work as old images

Seriously: Time Machine is the killer macOS feature. It has saved my bacon several times. Why Microsoft hasn't put a feature like that into Windows is baffling.

If there is a concern that you might need to go back to the machine's fresh state, it might be worth doing a Time Machine backup of the new install onto an external hard disk, and then putting that hard disk on the shelf for later. But then use another disk (either local or on a NAS) and let Time Machine do its thing. It works. It really does.

Did the hard disk in your machine die? Install a new one, and when you boot into the recovery mode, tell it to restore from Time Machine backup. When the restore is complete, it'll be just as it was at the time of that last backup.

Got a new machine? When setting up, you'll be asked if you want to restore from another machine's Time Machine backup.

Deleted a file or an email? Go into Time Machine, get it back.
Seriously, I couldn’t agree more. It boggles my mind that there are still Mac users who’ve never bothered to set up Time Machine — and it’s equally mind-boggling that Apple doesn’t advertise Time Machine as a killer app. The time it saves, in being able to restore to a new disk or new machine, is unbelievable compared to the difficulty and/or imperfection of restoring Windows systems.
 


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