EEVblog #670 - FLIR TG165 Lepton Sensor Followup

[eripaha]

I really did not like these thermal camera tear down videos, but hey i hope other people did.

[EEVblog]

Unless it's a product that has the shutter, I doubt it would try to activate it ( it's possible it may sense if the coil is connected), as it needs to know if there is a shutter, otherwise it would try to cal from an image that was not "flat"

Definitely.
That is why I think each product is tailored with it's own (likely non-upgradable) Lepton firmware.
And I expect the ones you can buy OEM will be different again.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Unless it's a product that has the shutter, I doubt it would try to activate it ( it's possible it may sense if the coil is connected), as it needs to know if there is a shutter, otherwise it would try to cal from an image that was not "flat"

Definitely.
That is why I think each product is tailored with it's own (likely non-upgradable) Lepton firmware.
And I expect the ones you can buy OEM will be different again.

Possibly, but if the only configurable option is shutter or not then they could detect its presence automatically by whether or not a coil was connected.
Another possibility is simply that they hadn't finished the full OEM firmware in time for production of F1 and TG165.
I don't think there is enough additional functionality in the OEM version to be worth the hassle of dealing with multiple firmware versions to prevent people using harvested "consumer" units.
Except of course for frame rate - If a >9fps version exists then it needs to be different due to export controls.

[Fraser]

Regarding sample availability. I have approached FLIR for a sample through official channels and can confirm that I did not even get a reply. I suspect that they have had many such requests and are now just ignoring them.

Having looked at the new FLIR MUON core web page I see that they make it very clear that they have no interest in supplying quantities of less than 1000 units and this is to ensure quality of service to industry ? I suspect they wish to avoid being bombarded with questions from small scale users or companies.

I have placed an order for the SEEK unit and, IMHO, that may offer a far better option to developers as the complete camera unit is only $199. I am hoping that it will be like the SDR Dongles..... as in it outputs RAW data and its capabilities are defined by the software used with it. The LEPTON may be very small and neat but its is only 80x60 pixels.....far less than the SEEK imager chip offers.

Anyone wishing to design their own TIC based on an OEM core would do well to speak to SEEK as I suspect that they are chasing market share and will be more friendly. FLIR are a large organisation that has many layers of beaurocracy to penetrate.

Aurora

[nowlan]

Is the muon not the same as the flir one?
(17µ VOx FPA technology - 640 x 512 and 336 x 256 resolutions (60 Hz and 9 Hz frame rates))

And is it not possible for adafruit etc, to sell. I suppose they'd need to bankroll $250k.
I guess nda etc would complicate things.

Would need a library/sdk still.

[nitro2k01]

Is the muon not the same as the flir one?
(17µ VOx FPA technology - 640 x 512 and 336 x 256 resolutions (60 Hz and 9 Hz frame rates))

FLIR One and FLIR TG165 both use the Lepton sensor which is only 80*60 resolution.

And is it not possible for adafruit etc, to sell. I suppose they'd need to bankroll $250k.
I guess nda etc would complicate things.

Would need a library/sdk still.

Not sure Adafruit would actually be able to push 1000 of those units to the public at that price, even if sold without profit, mainly because of the lack of usable tools atm. And FLIR might not be willing to sell to a retailer.

[mikeselectricstuff]

The guys at Pure Engineering seem to have persuaded them to sell - I understand the arrangement is an order of 1K with drop-ships of 100. Not sure what happens if the orders dry up after 100.....

They have also got permission from Flir to publish the datasheet, and I'm told will also be making the I2C interface docs available once Flir have finished it.

However I suspect a lot of people are waiting to see details on Seek before committing to Lepton. Backers for the Lepton buy seemed to stop dead once Seek announced.

[nowlan]

The seek has usb interface for 199$ and better resolution?

From the pure engineering post:
https://www.tindie.com/products/PureEngineering/flir-lepton-thermal-camera-breakout-2/ $48
https://groupgets.com/campaigns/31-flir-lepton-thermal-imager-batch-2 $257.48

edit: doesnt appear to have the NUC filter.

[Fraser]

Answer : Seek has a USB interface that connects to mobile phones using USB OTG. The Seek resolution is 205 x 156 pixels (32136 total active pixels) It is a complete raw data capture module and IIRC contains the NUC shutter. It has far greater resolution than the 80 x 60 pixel FLIR Lepton but it is still early days in the SEEK project and the image noise levels are presently on the high side for my liking. The fact that the module outputs data for processing on a mobile phone via USB may offer great opportunities for open source software however ?

Take a look here for more details on the SEEK product:

http://thermal.com/what_is_thermal_desktop.html

This forum has a thread on it as well. Search for 'SEEK'

[callipso]

btw: i heared fresnel is pronounced fren-nell.

 I've never heard anyone in Australia pronounce it like that.

In the stage lighting industry everyone says it as "fren-ell", but most people new to the term usually say "frez-nell".  I know I did years ago.

I usually say fresnel and here's why: saying frennel in english (or in my case in czech) IMHO is a hybrid - either say freznel or frennel with the weird frenchy R and silent-ish L at the end..

[EEVblog]

FYI, this mob do group guys on the Lepton and sell one-off.
https://www.groupgets.com/campaigns/31-flir-lepton-thermal-imager-batch-2