EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: PeterG on February 19, 2011, 01:11:19 am
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My adult side says i dont need to see it, but my destructive child side says 'Hell yeah, nothing better than watching expensive destruction'. ;D
OH and i feel it is in the best interests of the forum members to be made aware of any possible design flaws this scope may have. ;)
Regards
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To Doug's with it! I remember he mentioned he had a much larger discharge unit.
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Sorry to say it's hardly exciting footage, just the screen locking and going random and then now completely blank.
Time for a teardown...
Dave.
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Sorry to say it's hardly exciting footage, just the screen locking and going random and then now completely blank.
Time for a teardown...
Dave.
So it's not going to get blown up?
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No dropping it into waterfalls?
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Sorry to say it's hardly exciting footage, just the screen locking and going random and then now completely blank.
Time for a teardown...
Dave.
So it's not going to get blown up?
Of course not! Agilent will require it back for a full investigation before sweeping it under the carpet ;D
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Sorry to say it's hardly exciting footage, just the screen locking and going random and then now completely blank.
Time for a teardown...
Dave.
It would be intersting to see what you were doing when it went - not to mention your reaction ;D
Neil
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Did it really go up in smoke? Disappointing if it didn't!
At least it didn't blow up on your bench almost killing you unlike a certain design flawed instrument you once had.
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take the chance and make backup of NAND :'(
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I'm thinking number one rule of fault finding will apply here.
Check the power supply first!
Maybe our slightly higher mains has grabbed the attention of a marginally rated component.
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what about the magic smoke dave ?
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I feel the pain.
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Dave needs to answer the $12K question: did it break after the tear down?
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I'm puzzled by the comments (both here and on the blog page) questioning whether Dave's tearing down the scope caused the magic smoke. Dave is a professional who's been doing this for a long time. Would Agilent would be sending Dave $12,000 scopes to review knowing he's going to take them apart if they didn't have confidence in his abilities? Do pros make mistake sometimes? Sure, but if this was Dave's fault then the first thing out of his mouth would be an admission of guilt.
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Did you noticed the lights flashing regularly after the failure? Safe mode perhaps?
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I'm fairly certain that the problem is a component failure due to manufacture rather than the tear down. Listening to Daves comments during the video you get the strong impression that he is still in the exploring stage (Play first THEN tear down) This would make sense as a feel for the scopes workings is the first step to understanding the construction. Also Dave would be the first to put his hands up to being the first person in the world to have blown up the 3000 ;D. Seriously Agilent will do a thorough autopsy and make a full report. If that is ever made public is another thing. Is Dave signed up to a non disclosure?
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My guess is that the regular flashing shows that it can't go on beyond the front panel hardware selftest routine after it gets turned on . . .
I have a lot of experience with blown up hardware and i'm 99% shure that one of the regulator circuits on the main board has shorted out and turned off some of the main hardware .
As you could see , the display unit gets power and is still working - the front panel and the power supply are working as well - that narrows it down - and i don't think Dave has done something to f*** up this scope ::)
Of course i'd like to know what really went on inside .
FreeThinker pointed to it : Is Agilent going to share this information with us ?
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I have a lot of experience with blown up hardware
HINT! This would not be a good thing to put on your CV ;)
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I have a lot of experience with blown up hardware
HINT! This would not be a good thing to put on your CV ;)
"Quality assurance testing and systematic fault analysis experience"
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"Quality assurance testing and systematic fault analysis experience"
WOW - what a nice way to say it - I just put that on a stickynote - this is going right into my paperwork for future use ;D
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I have a lot of experience with blown up hardware
HINT! This would not be a good thing to put on your CV ;)
"Quality assurance testing and systematic fault analysis experience"
How about a 'Magic Smoke Investigator'
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Dave needs to answer the $12K question: did it break after the tear down?
This scope had NOT been opened yet, it was new out of the box.
The teardown I did was on that 3000 after it failed.
There were no obvious signs of anything having blown.
Agilent had a new one on my doorstep within 5 hours of the email! That's the one you will see in an upcoming review of the 3000.
The failed unit is on it's way back for thorough investigation, the guys at Agilent are anxiously awaiting it's arrival.
Dave.
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Being the devil's advocate, I am puzzled by the fact that there are no references to the scope being toast in the teardown video and no comments on the internal construction on the smoke video.
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Alex, i think the smoke video was done before the teardown video was recorded.
Regards
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Being the devil's advocate, I am puzzled by the fact that there are no references to the scope being toast in the teardown video and no comments on the internal construction on the smoke video.
to take your points in reverse order
1. To comment on it's internal construction BEFORE he had taken it apart would of been some feat.
2. The tear down is just that a review of the way the machine is designed and put together. If during the tear down an OBVIOUS blown component had shown up the it is fair to comment on it, BUT it seems to me fair not to bring it up during the video as it is not relevant to the build quality, all machines can fail normally within a few days of being made that is why they soak test. As a 'hot off the press' machine there may still be build issues to sort and Agilent need to be given a chance to sort them. We need to see what Agilents response is and hopefully what the problem was. To over play the point at the moment may be counter productive. Or are you suggesting Dave is being economical with the truth?
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1. To comment on it's internal construction BEFORE he had taken it apart would of been some feat.
The scope was opened to probe the PSU rails on the smoke video, yet no reference to internal construction.
If during the tear down an OBVIOUS blown component had shown up the it is fair to comment on it, BUT it seems to me fair not to bring it up during the video as it is not relevant to the build quality.
I would find it extremely hard to resist comments of the sort 'This looks OK', 'no damage here', 'I suspect something went wrong in this section' etc during a teardown following a product failure. I think this behaviour is the norm, especially for non-scripted vblogs and enthusiastic engineers.
Or are you suggesting Dave is being economical with the truth?
I am not in a position to speculate or suggest anything, and my, or anyone else's opinion on this could not count less. This is between those involved in the oscilloscope arrangements in Agilent and on Dave's side. I am just stating what I noticed, nothing wrong with that.
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Well having watched the tear down video it would seem hard to find anything you could do wrong in reassembly. Possible static problem but if so this is again an Agilent problem. I agree Dave's lack of comment is slightly unusual but as I've commented before he may be bound to a non disclosure agreement on this point who knows?. Lets wait and see Agilents position first.
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Fully agree and Dave did take ESD measures. I am glad you did not take my comment out of context.
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Fully agree and Dave did take ESD measures. I am glad you did not take my comment out of context.
Who me??? ;D.
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If someone (in this case Dave) wanted to cover his ass he could do a really very simple thing... He could easily make a new tear down film saying "Oh it failled, lets take it apart to see wtf went wrong". He had all the time needed.
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Alex, i think the smoke video was done before the teardown video was recorded.
Correctamundo.
Dave.
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Hi everyone. This is my little contribution to this topic.
I ‘m really appreciated Dave’s work and knowledge. He is one of few engineers who share his hardly earned experience.
I’m eager to know, what is wrong with Agilent 3000 scope. I’m surprised why Dave during teardown didn’t search component which released white smoke. That is very easy to find. Because, as far as I know damaged component keeps rousted smell for a long time.
There is something what really bothering me. This is Dave’s trying to proof himself as a pro in assembling/disassembling product (he uses clock to demonstrate speed) . This skill is irrelevant comparing to his engineering knowledge.
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I’m eager to know, what is wrong with Agilent 3000 scope.
You will find out. Agilent are investigating and will get back to me.
I’m surprised why Dave during teardown didn’t search component which released white smoke.
I did, I didn't find anything obvious.
I did not mention the smoke or search in the teardown because I wanted it to be a standalone video. If I found anything I was going to shoot it and put it in the smoke video.
There is something what really bothering me. This is Dave’s trying to proof himself as a pro in assembling/disassembling product (he uses clock to demonstrate speed) . This skill is irrelevant comparing to his engineering knowledge.
I put the clock in because a commenter on Youtube suggested it. I thought it was a fun idea.
Nothing to do with proving my skill (I'm not particularly quick)
Dave.
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I thought the clock was a great idea. Also I noticed with jealousy the temperature - 35 deg C phew!
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I’m eager to know, what is wrong with Agilent 3000 scope.
You will find out. Agilent are investigating and will get back to me.
I’m surprised why Dave during teardown didn’t search component which released white smoke.
I did, I didn't find anything obvious.
I did not mention the smoke or search in the teardown because I wanted it to be a standalone video. If I found anything I was going to shoot it and put it in the smoke video.
There is something what really bothering me. This is Dave’s trying to proof himself as a pro in assembling/disassembling product (he uses clock to demonstrate speed) . This skill is irrelevant comparing to his engineering knowledge.
I put the clock in because a commenter on Youtube suggested it. I thought it was a fun idea.
Nothing to do with proving my skill (I'm not particularly quick)
Dave.
I thought you always worked at that speed :o
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Dave did you receive an answer form Agilent about failure?
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Dave did you receive an answer form Agilent about failure?
http://www.eevblog.com/2011/02/21/eevblog-147-12000-smoke/ (http://www.eevblog.com/2011/02/21/eevblog-147-12000-smoke/)