Author Topic: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video  (Read 9062 times)

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Offline JimP

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Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« on: November 20, 2015, 02:30:15 pm »
Dave,

I liked the Kirchhoff videos.  They were a great refresher for me.

My criticism regarding the videos is that you pronounced the name wrong.
It isn't "Gus tof  Kir choff", it is "Goose Tav   Kir koff".
I hope you can understand my attempt an pheonetics here.

Other than this, I think the videos were well done, and I thank you for making them.

Regards,

Jim
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2015, 02:50:28 pm »
My criticism regarding the videos is that you pronounced the name wrong.

No I didn't, that's how it's commonly pronounced in Australia.
 

Offline John_ITIC

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2015, 08:39:20 pm »
Here in the US, it's pronounced like Dave did; in Sweden (where I learned about KCL/KVL) we used the German pronunciation. The German pronunciation is of course correct ;)

http://forvo.com/word/gustav_kirchhoff
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Offline Aodhan145

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2015, 11:57:26 pm »
Who actually cares?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2015, 12:05:29 am »
Who actually cares?

The same people who went ape at the way I (and we Australians) pronounce Bode. It sets off a trigger that makes their heads explode.
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2015, 12:13:28 am »
Who actually cares?

People named Gustav Kirchoff?

Seriously, there is a right way to pronounce that name: however he did.

Not that I know what that way is. But he was German, so I suspect that any of Dave's German viewers could give a definitive answer.
 

Offline Aodhan145

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2015, 12:17:28 am »
Who actually cares?

People named Gustav Kirchoff?

Seriously, there is a right way to pronounce that name: however he did.

Not that I know what that way is. But he was German, so I suspect that any of Dave's German viewers could give a definitive answer.

Right so Dave spends a lot of time making a video, trying to help people. Then you watch it and complain that he pronounced a word wrong. Seriously?!
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2015, 02:35:26 am »
Right so Dave spends a lot of time making a video, trying to help people. Then you watch it and complain that he pronounced a word wrong. Seriously?!

No, not seriously. I was just taking the piss a bit.

I have watched most of Dave's videos and have no complaints about any of them. I certainly couldn't give two farts how he pronounces anything.

I don't know Dave, but from watching his videos I do get the sense that he can take a little good-natured ribbing about pronunciation.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2015, 02:37:57 am »
Who actually cares?
People named Gustav Kirchoff?
Seriously, there is a right way to pronounce that name: however he did.

So forget over a century of language development in countless countries with their own oral history, and the way it's been pronounced to countless students in the field in their own countries?
Sorry to have to tell you, but welcome to the real world and the rich nature of the evolution of language and linguistics.
If your name gets pronounced differently in another country or region than you want it to be, then tough, suck it up buttercup. To bitch about it being "wrong" is just ridiculous.
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2015, 02:48:41 am »
Who actually cares?
People named Gustav Kirchoff?
Seriously, there is a right way to pronounce that name: however he did.

So forget over a century of language development in countless countries with their own oral history, and the way it's been pronounced to countless students in the field in their own countries?
Sorry to have to tell you, but welcome to the real world and the rich nature of the evolution of language and linguistics.
If your name gets pronounced differently in another country or region than you want it to be, then tough, suck it up buttercup. To bitch about it being "wrong" is just ridiculous.

Nobody was bitching. Well, at least not me. I'm sorry it came off that way. And I already said I don't think it matters. But we can all still keep our opinions, right? I think names are special and that the person with the name should get to call the shots. In this case, he's long dead, so, eh.

As far as sucking it up, I've had the pleasure of having my own name butchered my whole life, so I think I've done my fair share.

I don't get the hostility, though.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2015, 02:59:08 am »
Nobody was bitching. Well, at least not me. I'm sorry it came off that way. And I already said I don't think it matters. But we can all still keep our opinions, right? I think names are special and that the person with the name should get to call the shots.

You can think that, but in the real world they often do not.

Quote
I don't get the hostility, though.

I'm just explaining the way it is, as it seems many people do not understand how different languages work.
Also understand that I have hundreds of people screaming at me to change the way I pronounce something, change how I was taught to pronounce it, change how it's commonly pronounced in the industry in my country. Sorry, but no, they are wrong, it is not I who should change, it is they who should understand the way the world works and their narrow minded view of it.
 

Offline Votality

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2015, 03:10:20 am »

My criticism regarding the videos is that you pronounced the name wrong.

No I didn't, that's how it's commonly pronounced in Australia.

My lecturers at uni pronounced it like Dave did....
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2015, 03:12:07 am »
You can think that, but in the real world they often do not.

Fair enough, but sometimes one can choose to tilt at windmills.

For the record, in my whole life I have only heard it pronounced just as you did in the video.
 

Offline RogerRowland

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2015, 07:33:42 am »
As far as sucking it up, I've had the pleasure of having my own name butchered my whole life, so I think I've done my fair share.

Well, sure as hell I'd get it wrong trying to pronounce "djacobow" ... what the heck were your parents thinking?  :-DD
 

Offline gore

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2015, 08:47:56 am »
I don't think there's any reason to care how a certain word is pronounced as long as you understand what the word is.
 

Offline DutchGert

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2015, 10:22:55 am »
Great video Dave, i think young players with no specific electronics background will find this very useful. For me it was a nice refresh course.

Good to see Fundamentals Friday is back, started to miss the 'real' electronics video's a bit.  :-+

On the pronouncation of names: to be honest i think there is a difference in how you pronounce words and names. Names should be pronounced the way the persen itself would have pronounced it as a sign of respect to him/her. I mean, that is the name of the person right? That would ofcourse mean that a lot of persons around the world would not be able to pronounce my name but still, i am G.e.r.t., not Guurd or something ;)

Edit: ok now i sound like a sour soul (pronounce that around the world ;)).
« Last Edit: November 21, 2015, 10:24:55 am by DutchGert »
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2015, 05:54:55 pm »
As far as sucking it up, I've had the pleasure of having my own name butchered my whole life, so I think I've done my fair share.

Well, sure as hell I'd get it wrong trying to pronounce "djacobow" ... what the heck were your parents thinking?  :-DD

My first name is David. People don't often stumble there. My handle is my first initial and the first few letters of my last name. :-)
 

Offline SteveLy

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2015, 06:43:49 pm »
Kirchoff in the English speaking world is commonly pronounced as kertsh-ov (rhyming with church-of-..., just like Dave Jones says it) and if said any other way one would have trouble being understood by fellow English speaking engineers.

But Gustav as gust-have is like saying daah-veh for Dave. You'd be compelled to correct the person referring to Dave as Dah-veh despite their Spanish, Italian etc sentiments. Same goes for Gustav vs gust-have for most folks who have even an inkling of a language other than English. Try goo-staff - with a short "oo" as in "good". Consider the misspelling "Goustav".
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 11:53:23 am by SteveLy »
 

Offline German_EE

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #18 on: November 29, 2015, 08:11:59 pm »
Folks, it's a big wide world out there and, once in a while, we're going to encounter someone who pronounces a name their own way, to quote the Master, "shit happens".

For example:

Moscow, is is Moss-co or Moss-cow?

Is nuclear nu-clear or nu-queue-lar?

And don't even get me started on Uranus  :-DD
Should you find yourself in a chronically leaking boat, energy devoted to changing vessels is likely to be more productive than energy devoted to patching leaks.

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Offline Augustus

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #19 on: November 29, 2015, 10:49:26 pm »
Is nuclear nu-clear or nu-queue-lar?


Hah, that's an easy one...  :popcorn:


Greetings from the Black Forest, Germany
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2015, 02:22:23 am »
On the pronouncation of names: to be honest i think there is a difference in how you pronounce words and names.

No, there isn't.
There is a difference with how countless people in a country have learned to pronounce it and how it's pronunciation has evolved in that country.
Lets be very clear, this is how I was taught to pronounce it, and this is how it's is pronounced in this country. I would sound like an idiot if I pronounced it any other way in this country. Same goes for many other things people claim I pronounce "wrongly".
This is the way it's been pronounced in this country for generations.

Quote
Names should be pronounced the way the persen itself would have pronounced it as a sign of respect to him/her. I mean, that is the name of the person right?

That's not how the world works and how languages evolve I'm afraid.
You don't have to like it.
 

Offline Barny

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2015, 06:10:08 am »
Its funny to read US people going nuts about a german name.
We all knew how good they are in pronounceing german words  :-DD

@djacobow:
Ok, try to pronounce "Oachkatzlschwoaf" correct.
Or whats about: "Donaudampfschifffahrtskapitänsmütze"

The fact is:
Allmost none of the native german speaker would even think about fussing arround about the pronounceing of some english speaking people.
And when theyre try to pronounce it correct, there is even less reason to do that.

Whe have that manny german dialects which sounds like a complete different language.
Thats the reason "Hochdeutsch" (standard german) was developed.
Without this, there would be no way, someone liveing in the north of Germany would be able to understand someone from the south of Germany.
To understand someone from Austria or Swiss would be even more impossible for an north-German without standard German.

So: Keep cool, think technikal and get back to your solder iron, multimeter, mill, drill press, ....
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2015, 06:46:12 am »
And don't even get me started on Uranus  :-DD
I'm with the Greeks on this one. Oo-ra-nos.


And lo and behold he pronounces Bode the same we us Australians do! Much to the absolute disgust of many. Oh the humanity!
 

Offline IanB

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2015, 07:12:20 am »
Or whats about: "Donaudampfschifffahrtskapitänsmütze"

Ah, but that is many separate words all crunched up and glued together. If it got unglued it could be "Donau Dampfschiff fahrts Kapitäns Mütze", and then it would be less hard to say  :)
I'm not an EE--what am I doing here?
 

Offline Moshly

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2015, 07:18:12 am »
LOL, This is all too funny :-DD

Ill raise you a ->


And second a- >


And for all you yanks that say neee-sarn, here is how Nissan themselves advertise in Australia ->


^ had to post this one, its a crack-up.

The funny thing is, when I studied electronics at TAFE 20 years ago, one student had to, at any opportunity, refer to 'Kirchhoff's Law' as 'Jerk-offs Law' 
 

Offline Barny

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2015, 07:45:24 am »
Or whats about: "Donaudampfschifffahrtskapitänsmütze"

Ah, but that is many separate words all crunched up and glued together. If it got unglued it could be "Donau Dampfschiff fahrts Kapitäns Mütze", and then it would be less hard to say  :)
In German its normal to combine words to a long one.
This way its possible to get extreme long words.
To write the words separated like you did is incorrect in German ;)

German speaking kids have much more / longer fun playing "hangman" then English speaking one ;)
« Last Edit: November 30, 2015, 07:47:46 am by Barny »
 

Offline whitesto

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2015, 09:06:45 pm »
And for all you yanks that say neee-sarn, here is how Nissan themselves advertise in Australia ->

 

Offline continuo

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2015, 09:27:49 pm »
Interesting, it's almost identical as in Standard German...  :popcorn:
 

Offline djacobow

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #28 on: December 01, 2015, 09:28:31 pm »

I know I should not post again on this topic, but for some reason I can't help myself.

I think we've been talking across each other. I did not mean to suggest that pronouncing something the common way, the way everyone else does, etc, is not "fine" or "correct" or "reasonable," at least not in any grammatical sense. I was suggesting that as a small act of respect, that we should try to pronounce names the way their owner would have. Of /course/ that could put you in the position of sometimes sounding funny because you're going against the mainstream. My response to that is, eh, so what? It doesn't cost anything. It's a gesture, that's all.

@djacobow:
Ok, try to pronounce "Oachkatzlschwoaf" correct.
Or whats about: "Donaudampfschifffahrtskapitänsmütze"

It's not about pronouncing, it's about trying to pronounce.
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: Kirchhoff's Current Law and Voltage Law Video
« Reply #29 on: December 03, 2015, 04:07:36 am »
Firstly, let me say I have no issue at all with Dave's pronunciations.

It is a fact that words cross language boundaries and that is a big part of language development.  It is inevitable that there will be some local affectations which will change certain elements of pronunciation - for a number of reasons.  One is that there are often sounds that are not a natural part of the local language - such as the "ll" which you can find at the start of many Welsh words.  The result is that you will get a local's approximation.  This may annoy a natural speaker of the other language - but it is not a whole lot different to what makes up various accents.

One of the other really big factors (IMHO) is that, in the case of Kirchhoff for example, we see the name presented as text on a page.  There IS no guide or reference in how it should be said - so it is simply vocalised using the rules of pronunciation that we grew up with.  Once this pronunciation finds life, it is pretty well there forever.  So don't blame the early speakers for their efforts - they didn't have someone to tell enough people how to say it properly in the first place.

Also, not everyone who comes to a new country is precious about pronunciation.  About 60 years ago an immigrant started up a business in my town - and he was more than aware of the challenges of language.  He made no issue of the pronunciation of his surname and he adopted the first name of 'Albert' because - and he said this himself - that people would have a problem with his real name.  His real name was Umberto.  Today, this isn't a problem at all for the majority of Australians, but back then it would have been almost like someone speaking in Klingon.

My how times have changed - but he still goes by the name 'Albert'.

For those who champion 'saying it right', there is a positive trend, however.  As Australia - and, indeed the world - is finding itself exposed to ever increasing multicultural diversity, we are becoming more aware of the differences in language, new sounds are becoming more familiar and we are broadening our appreciation of other cultures and language.

Go back a few years and usage of an alternative (ostensibly the 'correct') pronunciation would have just caused little more than confusion.  These days, the confusion is a little less - but there is a time cost as the alternative pronunciation is translated into the one the listener understands - much like when you learn a new language, you have to translate the words into English in order for you to understand the message.


However, for those words that gained the Aussie (or any other country's) pronunciation/accent from all those years ago, the news is simple: Common usage has now cemented their sound into the local vocabulary....

... for the time being.

These things may well change - as language is always evolving - but for now, I suggest not turning it into a witch hunt.
 


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