EEVblog Electronics Community Forum

EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: EEVblog on April 18, 2017, 04:09:13 am

Title: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: EEVblog on April 18, 2017, 04:09:13 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWo9xDKXKq4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWo9xDKXKq4)
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: jpc on April 18, 2017, 04:22:14 am
When you said your new channel was banned and then read out the reason the first thought that entered my head was that it might have been because of the format and name of the new blog, i.e. with Discover in the name and hence the deceptive part of the reason. For while I don't know how fussed Discovery Channel would be about channel names that bear some passing resemblance to theirs I know other main stream media and entertainment sites tend to be quite heavy handed about such things. But no doubt we'll find out soon enough but it is typical of Youtube, just shoot first and screw asking any questions at all.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: evb149 on April 18, 2017, 04:24:14 am
Well as someone said here recently:
definition: "cloud": someone else's computer.

If you aren't paying for it, you're not the customer.  So there's no reason to believe that any 3rd party company is going to act in a way that corresponds to what you think is best.  However nonsensical their actions are and even if they're just "mistakes" that they ultimately rectify, you're the one that ends up hurt and frustrated.  At least your content is high enough profile that maybe one day / week soon they might "generously" fix your case.  Most aren't so lucky when some uncaring corporate bureaucracy or worse indiscriminate algorithm / heuristic decides to mess up their stuff.

Anyway the point is, you've got a perfectly fine web server and you know how to use it.  Rather than contribute to youtube's success while they increasingly inhibit yours maybe reconsider why you'd even want to do business with such a company / "service".
They're making it pretty clear that in some machination of their heuristics and algorithms they decided they don't want / need you, so why do you want them? 

Near monopolies are almost always in nobody's best interests other than the proprietors, that's even more of a global problem on the internet infrastructure.  Don't create a "monster" and then complain that you got eaten by it.  Take control of your own media / service while you still can and expect the worst but hope for the best if you're including needless middlemen and "cloud" services in the mix.


Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: tautech on April 18, 2017, 04:24:29 am
Unbelievable Dave, treated like you're a learner or something not somebody with ~1K YT vids over how many years ?  :scared:
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: hendorog on April 18, 2017, 04:24:36 am
EEVdiscover looks to be up and working to me. Not sure if it has been restored rather quickly, or they have a weird definition of 'banned' and 'terminated' at Youtube...

Edit; just read the other thread, so they got it back up smartly. Seems google ain't got their smartest bot working on detecting scams...
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Sonny_Jim on April 18, 2017, 04:32:18 am
EEVdiscover looks to be up and working to me. Not sure if it has been restored rather quickly, or they have a weird definition of 'banned' and 'terminated' at Youtube...

Edit; just read the other thread, so they got it back up smartly. Seems google ain't got their smartest bot working on detecting scams...
The channel is there, but with no videos.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Cyberdragon on April 18, 2017, 04:34:49 am
Crap! Posted a new thread right after I posted my joke in the old one!

Well, it applies here too so double the funny.

Sometimes I feel that Youtube's :bullshit: servers should get hit by lightning and go(https://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/blogs/wiredenterprise/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/server-room-nightmares.jpg)
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: EEVblog on April 18, 2017, 04:41:53 am
Yep, it's back up now, all videos there it seems

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkGvUEt8iQLmq3aJIMjT2qQ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkGvUEt8iQLmq3aJIMjT2qQ)
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: jpc on April 18, 2017, 04:47:36 am


Quote from: evb149 on Today at 03:24:14 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=86904.msg1188145#msg1188145)
...Don't create a "monster" and then complain that you got eaten by it.  Take control of your own media / service while you still can and expect the worst but hope for the best if you're including needless middlemen and "cloud" services in the mix.



I don't disagree with regard to monopolies but what you say about taking control is fine if you're just running a site with a few hundred or so members downloading or streaming the odd few videos per day. However, with the popularity of Dave's sites, just maintaining such a site would be a full time job for at least one someone, let alone the cost of other resources such as bandwidth etc etc. For all its faults, and I have little time for the way they react in circumstances like these, Youtube does at least allow a creator to just concentrate on content creation leaving the rest of the hassle of publishing to them.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Brumby on April 18, 2017, 04:56:20 am
Ah - It's back!

 :-+ :-+ :-+


Just out of curiosity - did YouTube give an explanation as to what happened?
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Cyberdragon on April 18, 2017, 05:17:25 am
Yep, it's back up now, all videos there it seems

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkGvUEt8iQLmq3aJIMjT2qQ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCkGvUEt8iQLmq3aJIMjT2qQ)

Looks like that guy finally figured out what he was supposed to do with that fire extinguisher. :P
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 06:08:26 am
I wish they would put more effort into banning the scammers with their free energy crap. If you keep clicking through technology videos the suggestions eventually lead to one.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: FrankBuss on April 18, 2017, 06:29:16 am
I wish they would put more effort into banning the scammers with their free energy crap. If you keep clicking through technology videos the suggestions eventually lead to one.

Why should Youtube ban these channels? Usually they are just crackpots who don't hurt others and they should have the right to ridicule themselves. And even if they try to sell something, this will be a good lesson for people who buy this crap. But maybe Youtube should add a red warning below such selling videos: "attention: because of the laws of physics, this device won't work as advertised" and with a link to the Simpsons clip "in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics".
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 06:32:18 am
Don't hurt others? We live in a society of people hurt by ignorance and misinformation plus they are just making money off the adds.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: FrankBuss on April 18, 2017, 06:41:27 am
Usually there are some useful comments for such videos. And where would you draw the line for banning videos? Would you ban religious crap, too?
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: wraper on April 18, 2017, 07:01:50 am
Why should Youtube ban these channels? Usually they are just crackpots who don't hurt others and they should have the right to ridicule themselves. And even if they try to sell something, this will be a good lesson for people who buy this crap.
Don't think so. Many of those who buy that crap will never learn it was a scam.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 07:38:53 am
Warm fraud is fraud. And i extend the definition to include being defrauded of time. At the end of the day you have to believe someone if you are to learn but the line between reality and false i formation has become hard to determine.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: EEVblog on April 18, 2017, 07:50:57 am
Ah - It's back!
 :-+ :-+ :-+
Just out of curiosity - did YouTube give an explanation as to what happened?

Nope  :-//
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Brumby on April 18, 2017, 07:52:47 am
That's helpful.   :--
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Cyberdragon on April 18, 2017, 07:56:57 am
Warm fraud is fraud. And i extend the definition to include being defrauded of time. At the end of the day you have to believe someone if you are to learn but the line between reality and false i formation has become hard to determine.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk


Doesn't youtube have a policy against scams and fraud? If they are selling anything or promoting a scam then techically, yes, they should be banned. If not, can't bust them.

P.S. this gave me a new tagline idea...
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: blueskull on April 18, 2017, 08:12:21 am
I wish they would put more effort into banning the scammers with their free energy crap. If you keep clicking through technology videos the suggestions eventually lead to one.

Google is a for profit company. Just like banning homemade porns, YT makes money on them, only the law requests them to ban such contents. Unless there is a government request saying that YT must ban these warm scams, they have no reason to do so. They generate PV clicks and AD income for YT. Another reason is that viewers are protesting these contents. If there is no social stress, nor governmental stress, why giving up chance to make money?
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 08:51:08 am
If we replaced morals and common decency with laws everyone would complain. You can't legislate for everything but telling lies seems to be completely acceptable these days.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: ElektronikLabor on April 18, 2017, 09:19:29 am
The same thing happened to one of my videos two months ago.
YouTube deleted the video without any warning and only with the same general statement.
They even warned me, that if I violate their guidelines again, they will delete my whole account; but I don't even know what kind guidelines I supposed to have violated!  :-//

The video was online again after two hours without any excuse and without any explanation.  :-\

Every time I upload a video, I have that fear that it gets deleted again  :--
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: madires on April 18, 2017, 09:41:16 am
My guess is that whoever implemented the algorithm finding duplicated videos forgot to add a simple check for the uploader's account (same account -> ok / different accounts -> fishy). It's obvious that YouTube have to automate everything to deal with the gazillions of videos, but they should put more effort into reducing false positives. Things like this banned channel are embarrassing for YouTube. Playing with AI and quantum computing they've messed up a simple check |O
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: ElektronikLabor on April 18, 2017, 09:51:53 am
My guess is that whoever implemented the algorithm finding duplicated videos forgot to add a simple check for the uploader's account (same account -> ok / different accounts -> fishy).
I think they implemented such an algorithm, but the other way around. There are a lot of accounts on YouTube that upload videos from other channels without any problems.
BUT:
Once I uploaded a video and realized that its audio and video on YT were out of sync, although the original video on my PC did not have that problem.
I rendered the video again and uploaded it again without publishing it, only as private video. I wanted to check if that sync problem remains.
The second video was blocked some minutes after uploading!! Even Though it was private and not published!!   :o
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 10:01:20 am
Time for a microsoft and google merger, that way we only have one company to be frustrated with ;)
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Brumby on April 18, 2017, 10:25:19 am
 :palm:  Oh ... that is an instant headache!
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Nauris on April 18, 2017, 10:33:40 am


Quote from: evb149 on Today at 03:24:14 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=86904.msg1188145#msg1188145)I don't disagree with regard to monopolies but what you say about taking control is fine if you're just running a site with a few hundred or so members downloading or streaming the odd few videos per day. However, with the popularity of Dave's sites, just maintaining such a site would be a full time job for at least one someone, let alone the cost of other resources such as bandwidth etc etc. For all its faults, and I have little time for the way they react in circumstances like these, Youtube does at least allow a creator to just concentrate on content creation leaving the rest of the hassle of publishing to them.

I would think that technical side of running such a site is not that big a problem as delivering video content globally anyway needs to be outsourced to someone with local servers around the world. Try Akamai or someone like that. Selling ads is where the hassle is but given Dave's large and focused audience I would think it is possible to cover hosting costs.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: jonovid on April 18, 2017, 10:42:20 am
maybe the deep state did think this is our Pine Gap global surveillance satellite ground station dish!  :o
an artificial intelligence fail! by global big brother.  :palm:
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: george graves on April 18, 2017, 10:48:20 am
The eevblog went full pewdipie  :-DD  :scared:

No but really - why so much youtube drama?  Fix it, and then let us know.  If it's gone for ever, then make a video.

EDIT - I see it's back.  By that thumbnail you'd think the world was ending.  Can we please stop it with all the youtube BS click bait people?

Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: VK3DRB on April 18, 2017, 10:50:13 am
This is the problem. As organisations get too big, their customer service implodes under their own weight. Their "Your call is important to us" websites and phone service are often  useless as udders on a bull :horse:. All you want to do it speak to a human.

I remember appalling service from Atmel. I tried everything to find a human with an email to contact for an urgent problem, but to no avail. Atmel ignored all correspondence relating to a problem they created with the supply of touch switch IC's for a major product design. As a result, I dumped Atmel in favour of Microchip in multiple product designs. Lower cost, better service, and better supply reliability. Now Microchip has bought Atmel, maybe the people at Atmel can learn Customer Service 101.

But with Youtube, Dave has no alternative. Maybe Youtube are simply too big for their own good. Hopefully Dave will be able to speak to a human - poof or no poof.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 11:13:59 am
It's not just the size of the company, it's the modern age where talking bullshit or not taking at all is accepted and morals are put aside in favour of following the letter of the law or the lack of it. Here in the UK where you could once talk to trading standards you no can't you have to speak to a charity the government "employ" to give you a shoulder to cry on and if you make a good enough case and know the law yourself you could get them to pass your compaint onto trading standards. the other day when I rang up I had to spell the law out to him and he had to check with someone before coming back on the phone and assurting me that trading standards woul;d be informed, whereupon I get a pathetic template letter from tading standards explaining that if only enough people jumped through the hopes of complaining about law breaking they would take action. That is all legal requirement stuff so when it comes to good old customer service, forget it, you want that part cheap ? well say good buy to custumer service.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: FrankBuss on April 18, 2017, 11:23:05 am
But with Youtube, Dave has no alternative. Maybe Youtube are simply too big for their own good. Hopefully Dave will be able to speak to a human - poof or no poof.

He said in the video he knows a human at Youtube. I guess you can contact humans, if the ad income from the channel is higher than the required cost for the human support, otherwise you are screwed.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 11:25:38 am
But with Youtube, Dave has no alternative. Maybe Youtube are simply too big for their own good. Hopefully Dave will be able to speak to a human - poof or no poof.

He said in the video he knows a human at Youtube. I guess you can contact humans, if the ad income from the channel is higher than the required cost for the human support, otherwise you are screwed.

Quite, the ultimate in cost saving. Customer support should be like insurance, you provide a decent service so that few people need support and from a certain amount of your revenue you fund customer support to help anyone that needs it genuinely. In youtubes case anyone could be the next viral blogger that makes them as much money as the blogger if not more. But in huge companies things happen so slowly good or bad that they don't see it until it is too late.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 11:40:09 am
As I said in the previous ban - YouTube is a monopoly that can not be allowed to continue.

We can not let one single company be in control of the majority of video data on the planet.

The solution is not encouraging competitor companies either. What we can do however is for the users to implement their own cloud with their own servers. The most viable approach so far seems to be GNU MediaGoblin. It lets you automatically federate content among multiple users. It is brilliant and I wish more people knew about it.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 11:42:45 am
The problem is youtube offers a non technical solution, you need to offer similarly attractive solutions. The other problem is the myth that all this stuff is for free, it is not. The advertisers just add the costs to the products we buy. It would be easier if there was a system where you just pay for the content you want and that would be easier on larger platforms than everyone on their own.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 12:46:52 pm
I agree, but the non-technical solution needs to be pioneered, and there is nobody better suited to do that than technical people.

There is a misconception that the solution is technical. Not true. The technical aspects are already being done by Open Source programming folk, to whom we are all in debt. The problem is one of awareness and changing the existing habits. We can get rid of all this nonsense by just doing things a bit differently.


I too agree that this is not free. The content creator needs to at least rent a server. However several content creators could pool their resources or federate their servers. Also the options for ad revenue and other types of monetization are still available.

Last but not least the MediaGoblin sharing method can be expanded by bittorrent type of sharing and local caching, which distributes the cost of data to the users/subscribers.  Win win win as I see it.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 12:52:17 pm
I agree, but the non-technical solution needs to be pioneered, and there is nobody better suited to do that than technical people.

There is a misconception that the solution is technical. Not true. The technical aspects are already being done by Open Source programming folk, to whom we are all in debt. The problem is one of awareness and changing the existing habits. We can get rid of all this nonsense by just doing things a bit differently.


I too agree that this is not free. The content creator needs to at least rent a server. However several content creators could pool their resources or federate their servers. Also the options for ad revenue and other types of monetization are still available.

Last but not least the MediaGoblin sharing method can be expanded by bittorrent type of sharing and local caching, which distributes the cost of data to the users/subscribers.  Win win win as I see it.

Yes if people have to be convinced to make the leap. Dave once did a video on why he would not use vimeo. You see the one big problem lies with the consumer that cares little for ethics and morals and just want's it all now for free. I'd happily scrap the adverts and pay for the content I watch. I don't watch TV or pay a license but if youtube gave me the option of paying a monthly fee and no adds I would. I am aware they are experimenting with this but I wonder why we have heared no more of it....... free is not free but if it looks like it's free people prefer it.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: David Hess on April 18, 2017, 01:33:05 pm
I don't disagree with regard to monopolies but what you say about taking control is fine if you're just running a site with a few hundred or so members downloading or streaming the odd few videos per day. However, with the popularity of Dave's sites, just maintaining such a site would be a full time job for at least one someone, let alone the cost of other resources such as bandwidth etc etc.

I would think that technical side of running such a site is not that big a problem as delivering video content globally anyway needs to be outsourced to someone with local servers around the world. Try Akamai or someone like that.

When I was looking into the requirements to replace various technical forums which supported email access, I concluded that using bittorrent to distribute large files was the way to go.  Direct download links might be desirable as a backup but that is what traffic shaping is for.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 01:49:13 pm
Quote
I'd happily scrap the adverts and pay for the content I watch.

There is no need. Creators still can put ads to their content if they wish. They just will have to deal with advertisers directly, which is how Dave deals with ads on the forum anyway.

Overzealous ads might reduce popularity as usual but I see this as a good thing. This will likely weed out a lot of copycat 'in it just for the money' type of clickbait creators.

Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 01:53:03 pm
I meant things like automated google ads, directly negotiated ads are of course the best way.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Richard Crowley on April 18, 2017, 01:57:40 pm
I don't watch TV or pay a license but if youtube gave me the option of paying a monthly fee and no adds I would. I am aware they are experimenting with this but I wonder why we have heared no more of it.
I have been using YouTube Red since they first advertised it.  $5/month is wonderful to skip all those stupid (and LOUD) ads.

OTOH, on the occasions where I use YouTube not logged-in,  I have often seen an ad for something that I found really useful, so I have a rather split opinion.  So, I guess the times when the YT targeting algorithm worked properly, they showed me ads for quite interesting things.

Presumably Vimeo it out because no monetization?
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: RGB255_0_0 on April 18, 2017, 02:00:53 pm
The only way is to monetise your own solution, something LinusTechTips is doing. But even Linus could not be able to bankroll his own CDS without the free hardware he has received and hours spent on the back end by Luke et al. He also won't disclose whether it will be profitable once live but there will be a break even point and he has enough fanboys to get it that way.

With the way the Ad distribution is going on YouTube, it wouldn't surprise me if people move away gradually with Patreon supporting producers. Then the issue is fragmentation...
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 02:08:11 pm
The solution to fragmentation is federation. How would that work nobody knows, will have to be figured out.

The closest parallel I can imagine is something like the Webrings of the 90's.

In the most basic form I imagine the content creators sharing space on their own server in exchange for space in another creator's server in another country.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 02:20:37 pm


In the most basic form I imagine the content creators sharing space on their own server in exchange for space in another creator's server in another country.

The ultimate solution, full coverage of any demand profile
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: EEVblog on April 18, 2017, 02:29:46 pm
Quote from: evb149 on Today at 03:24:14 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?topic=86904.msg1188145#msg1188145)I don't disagree with regard to monopolies but what you say about taking control is fine if you're just running a site with a few hundred or so members downloading or streaming the odd few videos per day. However, with the popularity of Dave's sites, just maintaining such a site would be a full time job for at least one someone, let alone the cost of other resources such as bandwidth etc etc. For all its faults, and I have little time for the way they react in circumstances like these, Youtube does at least allow a creator to just concentrate on content creation leaving the rest of the hassle of publishing to them.

I would think that technical side of running such a site is not that big a problem as delivering video content globally anyway needs to be outsourced to someone with local servers around the world. Try Akamai or someone like that. Selling ads is where the hassle is but given Dave's large and focused audience I would think it is possible to cover hosting costs.

For those who think Youtubers can just change to another site or host the video server yourself etc are missing the entire point of Youtube.
It is the world's 2nd biggest search engine, and the world's biggest video search engine by many orders of magnitudes. When you want to find and watch a video on anything, the only place you turn to is Youtube.
Half of my daily views come from searches, and almost the entirety of my existing and continual new audience comes from being visible and searchable on Youtube.

There is a reason why there practically isn't anyone making a living making original Facebook video content, or Vimeo content etc.
Twitch might be the only exception, but it's still zero competition to Youtube.

Good luck trying to convince advertisers you have xx thousands of viewers on your own private server, or vimeo etc, no one cares, you become invisible and will almost certainly fade away as will any audience who switched with you.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 02:32:57 pm
For the users instead of subscribing on YT they could subscribe directly to the content creator (via RSS for example) so when new content is released the subscriber's client automatically downloads the content via torrent and starts seeding it to others, thus minimizing the bandwidth costs for the creator.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 02:34:51 pm
the problem is fitting with what the masses want, as Dave says, YT is the goto place and favored by "the one" search engine. I have been going rogue and not using google but I have noticed that the quality of my results are poor. It's sad but a monopoly is nice when they play fair.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 02:38:41 pm
Quote
For those who think Youtubers can just change to another site or host the video server yourself etc are missing the entire point of Youtube.
It is the world's 2nd biggest search engine, and the world's biggest video search engine by many orders of magnitudes. When you want to find and watch a video on anything, the only place you turn to is Youtube.

Google is also a monopoly for search service and this is also a bad thing that we are stuck with it.

There are open source peer-to-peer search engines out there. The prime example being YaCy http://yacy.net/en/index.html (http://yacy.net/en/index.html)

If federated content becomes popular the federated search service will also be popular.


edit: I've ran YaCy on my personal computer and it did work, as in it did crawl the net and was searchable. So the technology is already out there. The only thing lacking is the will to give it a try.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: EEVblog on April 18, 2017, 02:41:28 pm
For the users instead of subscribing on YT they could subscribe directly to the content creator (via RSS for example) so when new content is released the subscriber's client automatically downloads the content via torrent and starts seeding it to others, thus minimizing the bandwidth costs for the creator.

Of course they can, but as I mentioned above, that is entirely not the point.
It's like being say a successful online magazine and then saying, bugger it, we are now only going to be able to available via the newsagent or direct snail mail postage now.
Some audience will follow, but you'll eventually fade away into insignificance.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 02:44:53 pm


Google is also a monopoly for search service and this is also a bad thing that we are stuck with it.

There are open source peer-to-peer search engines out there. The prime example being YaCy http://yacy.net/en/index.html (http://yacy.net/en/index.html)

If federated content becomes popular the federated search service will also be popular.

I would use it but where is the download link ?
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 02:47:30 pm
Quote
Of course they can, but as I mentioned above, that is entirely not the point.

I just felt the need to mention what is out there and what is possible. I do not pretend to have solution to your current problem Dave. You know what you're doing.

But if I was a content creator I would definitely try to run an autonomous CDN besides my regular YT account, and I would mention this here and there hoping to get more creators into it.

At least I wouldn't be willingly handing Google the monopoly on a silver platter.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 02:51:55 pm
Quote
I would use it but where is the download link ?

The right panel.

Also your Linux distro probably already has it.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: EEVblog on April 18, 2017, 02:58:34 pm
I just felt the need to mention what is out there and what is possible. I do not pretend to have solution to your current problem Dave. You know what you're doing.

I don't have a problem  ;D

Quote
But if I was a content creator I would definitely try to run an autonomous CDN besides my regular YT account, and I would mention this here and there hoping to get more creators into it.
At least I wouldn't be willingly handing Google the monopoly on a silver platter.

A lot of my content is on Vimeo also, and every numbered video I have ever made is on my server, albeit in a 640x360 podcast version:
http://www.eevblog.org (http://www.eevblog.org)
In fact some people know that videos typically get uploaded there before they are released.
I also tried a torrent server once, it sucked.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 03:04:57 pm
Quote
A lot of my content is in Vimeo also, and every numbered video I have veer made is on my server, albeit in a 640x360 podcast version:

Exactly, If more creators started doing the same thing you could start pooling resources which would reduce costs and increase popularity.

And the technical solution to let you do so already exists.

I'm not a content creator but even I could set up a server just to start the ball rolling.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 03:43:03 pm


I'm not a content creator but even I could set up a server just to start the ball rolling.

And there lies your problem, another person able to do it different that is not going to use it. There will be plenty of people that make content but don't have your knowledge.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: mcinque on April 18, 2017, 03:56:45 pm
Anyway the point is, you've got a perfectly fine web server and you know how to use it.  Rather than contribute to youtube's success while they increasingly inhibit yours maybe reconsider why you'd even want to do business with such a company / "service".
Running your own (single?) server with their bandwidth is unpractical. You would need a cluster with a huge connection to provide proper (HD) video streaming.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 18, 2017, 04:04:55 pm
Which is why it has to be done across multiple servers and is only practical if people club together, i wonder how hosting companies started out.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 05:19:01 pm
This is where the MediaGoblin and it's federated content sharing comes in. It let's you share resources with other users.

Video in the link:

https://media.libreplanet.org/u/libreplanet/m/christopher-webber-federation-and-gnu-2b47/
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Hensingler on April 18, 2017, 05:31:32 pm
A glimpse of the future. Google's machine learning and AI in action.

Some people think stuff like this will be driving cars in a couple of years.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: evb149 on April 18, 2017, 07:46:01 pm
Yes it seems there are lots of possible technical and architectural solutions to help provide alternatives.  What alternative works best for a given use case is probably application dependent.

* If I just want to "subscribe" to a content feed that someone has on an irregular or regular basis then in many cases I don't care about "immediate asynchronous on demand" streaming.  I just want to get the content in my "folder" once a day / week / whatever.  So it wouldn't matter if my device pulled that slowly by HTTPS, FTP, torrent, whatever at whatever low bandwidth.  The ATOM / RSS / podcast feed is a good analogy.  Some agent SW monitors a list of feeds I subscribe to, downloads whatever is linked to according to my preferences, notifies / shows me what is available at any time and it is available from my local machine when I want it.  There are probably standard browser / app / webapp / whatever mechanisms and setups for this.

* If there is some "live stream" or "special event" type thing then there are webcasting / streaming types of approaches to handle that.  And if the presentations can be scheduled to a finite number of specific times like a live or scheduled non-live webcast would be then there's efficiency available in allocating whatever server resources are needed to handle that bandwidth at predictable times.  Even if one had an arrangement with AWS or AZURE or whatever cloud service or CDN to disseminate the live / non-live streams at least at that point you're the customer and you have some kind of SLA and at least notional availability of support and quality control from the facility, and you wouldn't have to rely on just one provider it'd be potentially dynamic.

* Free distributed mirrors can work perfectly well, they once worked well for USENET.  Today any time you want to download a LINUX / UNIX distribution or similar you have a list of something like 100 globally dispersed mirrors that you can get the content from.  Some schemes even use DNS and other approaches to handle load-balancing and select the best / fastest / most available server for every specific request.  There are even sites like archive.org and probably wikimedia and other virtual libraries that store and disseminate media specifically because relying on "here today gone tomorrow" commercial services leads to content disappearing forever when the single point of failure goes away. 

* There may be some kinds of standard variable bit rate / progressive resolution / whatever streaming and whatever mechanisms out there to allow for smooth playback on demand while the rest of the video buffers and higher quality data becomes available.  In the normal case if I download one of your self-hosted videos and it takes just a couple of minutes for a video with run time several times that then clearly it is much faster than real time.  So I don't think one needs "netflix like" infrastructure to successfully stream videos whatever you're already doing is working better than youtube sometimes does in my experience.  I don't know how cloudflare and all that works but I guess I wouldn't be surprised if video BLOB content could work just the same as HTML content in terms of distributed cacheing / distribution.  Isn't that part of the point of the whole dynamic HTML / XMLHTTP request / AJAX or whatever scheme to be able to load chunks of content dynamically from whatever applicable sources and then process them locally to cause them to be rendered into the final format?  I'm not sure chunks of video are different than chunks of XML in such a concept.

As for "search engine" use well that's another aspect that really should be "taken back" by the internet.  It is hardly scalable nor desirable to have some monopoly over finding internet content.  There has long been the concept of "semantic web" and metadata initiatives like dublin core and formats like SGML instead of HTML etc.  Information metadata should be marked up by the creator or also "crowd sourced" annotated / curated and then the problem of "search" should be reduced from the ridiculously innacurate and unscalable "keyword search" google nonsense to more of distributed database queries that can be much more specific as to what is being searched for than you can do with google's basic or advanced search. 

The internet has the potential to make accessable the sum of human knowledge and creativity.  It should be architected and implemented according to the concepts of "library science" and not some "web 2.0 whatever is shiny and flashy" here today gone tomorrow schemes of companies like Facebook, Twitter, AOL, yahoo, google, msn, microsoft, whatever. 
The content, the information, the "e-culture" should survive and be as usable and accessible as possible we're collectively
creating the world's biggest library which should be "infinite" in scope and duration but so far all we get is the world's biggest tower of bablyon where nothing really works or lasts.  Let's say some cloud company "service" like youtube or yahoo or AOL or google groups or whatever goes out of business and takes down its servers.  Where does all that content (which they did not create, users did in the sense of my meaning)  go?  Generally it is gone forever.  How many person years of effort are lost?  Probably several million person years of effort maybe if there was content created by millions of users over a few years time.  Sure maybe not much of it was "of lasting value" but some was. 

Homer here routinely posts links to old videos from the 1960s or so about things like telstar, sputnik or whatever.  What will happen to EEVBLOG (or all other such) videos in 5, 10, 20, 50 years?  I think they would be interesting for historical perspective.  It would be a shame to see such all go away when one day youtube is no longer run or whatever, and it is a good step that you also use vimeo and self-host etc.  At any given time letting monopolies and "pyramid schemes" control our content, our communications networks, our collective knowledge and information may seem like a good and convenient thing.  But in the end it is always a mistake.

Nowdays storage, bandwidth, etc. is cheaper than ever but yet the "pipes" and "gateways" to it all are becoming increasingly turned into "toll roads" of "robber barons" who would like nothing better than to turn the internet into essentially another cable TV service that is a "broadcast medium" controlled by corporate monopoly interests for their profit / purposes and not enable alternatives or meaningfully independent resources whether by erosion of use of standards or inavability of technical resources for alternatives (e.g. super assymetric bandwidth quotas or incoming port blocks on ISP feeds).



Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: David Hess on April 18, 2017, 07:51:50 pm
For those who think Youtubers can just change to another site or host the video server yourself etc are missing the entire point of Youtube.
It is the world's 2nd biggest search engine, and the world's biggest video search engine by many orders of magnitudes. When you want to find and watch a video on anything, the only place you turn to is Youtube.
Half of my daily views come from searches, and almost the entirety of my existing and continual new audience comes from being visible and searchable on Youtube.

There is a reason why there practically isn't anyone making a living making original Facebook video content, or Vimeo content etc.
Twitch might be the only exception, but it's still zero competition to Youtube.

Good luck trying to convince advertisers you have xx thousands of viewers on your own private server, or vimeo etc, no one cares, you become invisible and will almost certainly fade away as will any audience who switched with you.

The biggest reason I prefer Youtube videos is simply because they work and I can easily download them for local viewing albeit limited to 720p.

Invariably when I do a Google search and find the video that I want on a site other than Youtube, it either does not work or works very poorly.  My experience has been so bad in this respect that I usually do not even bother with video that is not on Youtube unless it is a direct download link and who does that?  And even on Youtube, I download first and watch using local video player unless it is trivial and short content.

Oh, but the porn video sites work fine.  Liveleak works fine also.  Why can't Vimeo and all of the video content sites other than Youtube and Liveleak figure it out?  The only thing they have figured out is not to put a "buffering..." message up.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 18, 2017, 08:37:01 pm
Thanks evb149 for the wonderful exposition. I could not have distilled the matter more succinctly.

Yes indeed the web of today carries the shared memory of mankind and deleting a video is the same thing as burning a book. Nobody should have the monopoly to do so in this day and age. Librarians call the unintentional loss of information "Web Rot" and are trying to figure out ways to deal with it. The intentional censoring of information on the other hand is much more serious, but we don't have a name for it yet.

The RSS/Atom feeds can be made an order of magnitude more useful if integrated with a torrent client. This way when new content is posted the client automatically downloads it and starts seeding to other users, even if you don't watch it immediately. The effectiveness is evident from movie streaming applications like PopcornTime et. al.

In the above application a file with 1000 seeders has MASSIVE bandwidth and can be disseminated globally no problem whatsoever. So a content creator like Dave having 1000 RSS subscribers is roughly comparable to his YT channel in the amount of bits reaching the audience. All this with minimal cost to Dave.

The keyword search and human based semantic classification is actually easy. Just look at how Reddit works. There are niche communities with very specific interest who constantly share and discuss content relevant to them. The only problem is that the flow of information is one way only and there is no way of feeding it back to the creator. Reddit also has its own rudimentary monetization scheme which they do not intent to make extensible to the original content creator. Another thing that can be improved.

Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: EEVblog on April 18, 2017, 11:54:26 pm
Quote
A lot of my content is in Vimeo also, and every numbered video I have veer made is on my server, albeit in a 640x360 podcast version:
Exactly, If more creators started doing the same thing you could start pooling resources which would reduce costs and increase popularity.

It's never going to be popular.

Quote
And the technical solution to let you do so already exists.
I'm not a content creator but even I could set up a server just to start the ball rolling.

To solve what problem?
There is no problem.
There is nothing stopping content creators uploading to any and all of the CDN's like Youtube, Vimeo, Vid.me, etc etc (even Facebook), if redundancy and viewer choice is your issue.
Fact is no one cares about anything other than Youtube.
But if you want to do that sort of thing, then I'm not here to discourage it, just pointing out what the real world cares about.

Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Brumby on April 18, 2017, 11:57:52 pm
In practical terms, these 'alternatives' will be seen by a great many as an exercise in reinventing the wheel.

Many content producers wouldn't have the skills and/or the interest in travelling down a path that requires them to put more effort into publishing their work ... yes, even if it meant they bailed out completely.  Another issue is the potential for multiple "standards" in exactly how multiple hosts are configured and accessed.  The list goes on.

Then there are the costs involved in providing an effective service (read bandwidth and capacity).


It may appear to be a solution on paper, but real world issues will be a significant barrier to success.

IMHO.


and there's this....

Fact is no one cares about anything other than Youtube.

Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: EEVblog on April 19, 2017, 12:03:20 am
Quote
The RSS/Atom feeds can be made an order of magnitude more useful if integrated with a torrent client. This way when new content is posted the client automatically downloads it and starts seeding to other users, even if you don't watch it immediately. The effectiveness is evident from movie streaming applications like PopcornTime et. al.
In the above application a file with 1000 seeders has MASSIVE bandwidth and can be disseminated globally no problem whatsoever. So a content creator like Dave having 1000 RSS subscribers is roughly comparable to his YT channel in the amount of bits reaching the audience. All this with minimal cost to Dave.

I've been talking about dropping the podcast RSS version for years now, and have said I may drop it at any time.
It's three extra process steps for me just to do it -  separate render, separate FTP server upload, and adding it to the feed.

For the Amp Hour podcast, which is just audio, and 1/10th the bandwidth requirement of video we had to use a professional CDN service designed just for that, LibSyn.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: EEVblog on April 19, 2017, 12:11:47 am
In practical terms, these 'alternatives' will be seen by a great many as an exercise in reinventing the wheel.
Many content producers wouldn't have the skills and/or the interest in travelling down a path that requires them to put more effort into publishing their work ... yes, even if it meant they bailed out completely.  Another issue is the potential for multiple "standards" in exactly how multiple hosts are configured and accessed.  The list goes on.
Then there are the costs involved in providing an effective service (read bandwidth and capacity).
It may appear to be a solution on paper, but real world issues will be a significant barrier to success.

And all this talk of setting your own CDN or moving to another CDN service like Vimeo etc is only valid for those who already have a large audience and can potentially take some of them with them.
It is not an option for someone starting out, even if they have the best technical skills in the world to implement it.
Even something as huge and ubiquitous as Facebook (and who claim to serve more video than Youtube (which is bullshit, but we'll run with that)), used by more than a billion people a month, count how many people make a full time living making video content on just Facebook. Name one person who is known for making original video content on Facebook. You can't. There are reasons for this.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: strangersound on April 19, 2017, 01:38:23 am
I just jumped on my YouTube homepage and EEVdiscover was there with suggested videos.

I was thinking, I like the sound of "EEV Scope" as a name for the new channel. It can still mean the same thing, but it has the cope pun for those in the know. Get the scoop on The Scope. ;)
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: HAL-42b on April 19, 2017, 01:55:11 am
Quote
Fact is no one cares about anything other than Youtube.

Thanks for defending the status quo boys. Thought nobody was going to put a good word in for the poor old status quo. God knows the old girl needs all the help she can get.
<ducks>

I just felt like being rebellious and all that nonsense. I repent.  :horse:
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Cyberdragon on April 19, 2017, 02:23:55 am
Quote
Fact is no one cares about anything other than Youtube.

Thanks for defending the status quo boys. Thought nobody was going to put a good word in for the poor old status quo. God knows the old girl needs all the help she can get.
<ducks>

I just felt like being rebellious and all that nonsense. I repent.  :horse:

The problem is diversity leads to confusion. Not only for people to remember what site content was uploaded to (these kind of sites would likely copy each other's looks eventually) if they just happened to watch random videos, but for the uploaders who would have their target audiences split up by multiple sites, meaning they only get a fraction of it. Even if all sites were to become "popular", people would still choose which ones to frequent and ignore others.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: EEVblog on April 19, 2017, 02:55:03 am
Quote
Fact is no one cares about anything other than Youtube.
Thanks for defending the status quo boys. Thought nobody was going to put a good word in for the poor old status quo. God knows the old girl needs all the help she can get.
<ducks>
I just felt like being rebellious and all that nonsense. I repent.  :horse:

Stating a fact does not imply defence or endorsement etc. It's just a fact.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Brumby on April 19, 2017, 05:34:29 am
You can't ignore the status quo.  It has inertia.  Sometimes that inertia is massive.

For any new player, they not only have to deliver a better product in all manner of ways - performance, searching, ease of use and whatever else will be needed to attract patronage - but they need to overcome the inertia in order for it to be adopted.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Simon on April 20, 2017, 07:59:31 pm


Google is also a monopoly for search service and this is also a bad thing that we are stuck with it.

There are open source peer-to-peer search engines out there. The prime example being YaCy http://yacy.net/en/index.html (http://yacy.net/en/index.html)

If federated content becomes popular the federated search service will also be popular.

I would use it but where is the download link ?

Another 2 click wonder written by technical poeple for technical people. non of it made any sense and on firing it up the second time it failed to work. If you really want to run a project like lacy then get it onto BOINC so that contributors just link to the project with minimal understanding.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: GreenHW_GUY on April 20, 2017, 11:34:53 pm
got the notification for the new video today, but want to watch it later, rirgt now i Want to see it but the video has ben taken down, does any one one know why Dave has take this video down.
I remember the video picture was a picture of some PCB see picture from the mail notification. link to the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsIOtObevcY&feature=em-uploademail (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsIOtObevcY&feature=em-uploademail)
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: Meltea on April 28, 2017, 09:18:40 pm
I might be a bit late to the party here, but I just tried to put the new channel into feedly (rss reader) and BuzzFeedBlue channel popped up.

It might have been a hash collision, or database error. Or feedly might have messed up their cache. It is interesting enough for me to register here and post it anyways.
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: GreenHW_GUY on May 01, 2017, 06:24:23 pm
WHY does this happen again !!! does Dave have some change that he take the video down again
Title: Re: My New Youtube Channel BANNED!
Post by: RGB255_0_0 on May 01, 2017, 06:39:26 pm
WHY does this happen again !!! does Dave have some change that he take the video down again
Personal information in the video.