Author Topic: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope  (Read 15871 times)

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Offline BU508A

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New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« on: May 23, 2017, 08:33:29 am »
Dave's unboxing the new OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope:

https://youtu.be/ByUiOk00K0U


In Germany it goes with 1199.- Euro incl. 19% VAT:
http://www.messgeraete-chemnitz.de/OWON-Oszilloskope/OWON-XDS3202A-Oszilloskop-200MHz-2-Kanal-12bit-alle-Optionen

Edit: Typo in price.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 08:35:26 am by BU508A »
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Offline bktemp

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2017, 09:04:31 am »
It seems to be completely messed up with all the specs and part numbers. 8bit, 12bit, 14bit. 500MS/s, 1GS/s, 2GS/s? I have no idea.
Depending on where you look, you can find the 200MHz version XDS3202A with either 2GS/s or 1GS/s at 12bits or even 1GS/s at 14bits.
But the one Dave got seems to support only 500MS/s at 12bits and 100MS/s at 14bits.

Even the official user manual states 2GS/s for single channel without any restriction when using12bit mode.  :-//
 

Offline WattSekunde

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2017, 03:01:42 pm »
I wonder if this oscilloscope has a "real" 14bit converter chip in it or is this software interpolation?

« Last Edit: May 23, 2017, 04:29:22 pm by WattSekunde »
 

Offline k4rlhp

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2017, 04:07:03 pm »
I wonder if this oscilloscope has a "real" 14bit converter chip in it or is this software interpolation?

Dave, this is a valid concern, how useful this 14b converter really is.
As far as this scope goes, it's only worth considering for 14b, batt.power/isolation and potentially data-logging.
I think it's pointless to give this scope much tube time without verifying that the headline-stuff works.
especially considering the state of UI and some f() implementation.
Seeing the internals is interesting but I doubt we'll see anything unexpected, right?

K
 
 

Online xrunner

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2017, 04:12:05 pm »
Watched the video - for some features indicated it might be worth it; however, the user interface is ... awful. I just don't understand it. Why go to all the trouble to make something like this and make a user interface/front panel like that? Any one of us could have designed it better. I just can't believe there is nobody in that company that can't do a better job.  :-//
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Offline f4eru

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2017, 05:34:26 pm »
I doubt we'll see anything unexpected, right?
The A/D chip(s) may be of interest. I'm really curious what technical solution they use.
 

Offline tom66

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2017, 10:14:41 pm »
Watched the video - for some features indicated it might be worth it; however, the user interface is ... awful. I just don't understand it. Why go to all the trouble to make something like this and make a user interface/front panel like that? Any one of us could have designed it better. I just can't believe there is nobody in that company that can't do a better job.  :-//
Probably a case of not hiring an actual industrial designer and maybe just the in house mechanical engineer did it all. I can't even imagine a contracted job looking that bad.  And who the fuck put a red LED behind the yellow CH1??

Having worked with a real industrial designer you get an appreciation of how it's not just mechanical/plastics engineering, there's an actual art to it above and beyond typical mechanical work.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2017, 10:26:38 pm »
I wonder if this oscilloscope has a "real" 14bit converter chip in it or is this software interpolation?
Probably like lecroy and keysight, where their ADCs are built of many many "slices" oversampling the signal so they can provide a configurable resolution <-> bandwidth tradeoff. What is a real 14b ACD? flash? multislope? and what isn't a proper ADC? does a pipelined SAR have too much DNL to be a proper ADC?

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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2017, 11:04:30 pm »
Owon XDS3202A is crap as expected. But hey, the SDS7102 was OK back in 2011.

In 2011 there was IMHO no other cheap scope with a big LCD.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2017, 11:18:30 pm »
Watched the video - for some features indicated it might be worth it; however, the user interface is ... awful. I just don't understand it. Why go to all the trouble to make something like this and make a user interface/front panel like that? Any one of us could have designed it better. I just can't believe there is nobody in that company that can't do a better job.  :-//
Probably a case of not hiring an actual industrial designer and maybe just the in house mechanical engineer did it all. I can't even imagine a contracted job looking that bad.  And who the fuck put a red LED behind the yellow CH1??

Typical Chinese company attitude, just like Neoden's comical N4 video.
 Maybe it's something like being seen to lose face by having to use external help? :-//  Are consultants a common thing in China?
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Online xrunner

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2017, 11:24:26 pm »
Maybe it's something like being seen to lose face by having to use external help? :-//  Are consultants a common thing in China?

I know. The manuals too, for example Rigol's manuals are not the worst I've seen, but there are grammatical errors all through it. I've had college level technical writing - I could edit the thing to read properly in one day of work. Really, I've seriously considered writing the company and offering to do the job for one manual and see if they liked it. Prolly be a wasted call though ...  :-//
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Offline Someone

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2017, 04:26:12 am »
Every marketing specification ticked off and a kitchen sink thrown in, could be a nice scope once everything works. But the interface isn't the worst design out there when you look at what tek were pushing in this space.

Most of the same problems in its interface almost as if owon is copying it like for like.
 

Offline boggis the cat

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2017, 05:33:34 am »
Every marketing specification ticked off and a kitchen sink thrown in, could be a nice scope once everything works. But the interface isn't the worst design out there when you look at what tek were pushing in this space.
I am working on a Tek TDS 2012C right now.  Similar layout, except that the 'Horizontal' background colour has been extended down and around the 'Ext Trig' BNC (which is erroneous, but clearly done to keep the design simple -- they could have carried the 'Trigger' background around the trigger input, though).

At least Tektronix use consistent layouts within their families of 'scopes.  If you are using their brand exclusively then you shouldn't have too much trouble.

Keysight use a different UI approach, and it can change a lot between different 'scopes.  I suspect that they put more resources into the UI for each model.
Quote
Most of the same problems in its interface almost as if owon is copying it like for like.
I don't see the similarity.  The Owon button layout isn't even orderly -- look at that DMM button wedged in there.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2017, 08:16:01 am »
Every marketing specification ticked off and a kitchen sink thrown in, could be a nice scope once everything works. But the interface isn't the worst design out there when you look at what tek were pushing in this space.
I am working on a Tek TDS 2012C right now.  Similar layout, except that the 'Horizontal' background colour has been extended down and around the 'Ext Trig' BNC (which is erroneous, but clearly done to keep the design simple -- they could have carried the 'Trigger' background around the trigger input, though).

At least Tektronix use consistent layouts within their families of 'scopes.  If you are using their brand exclusively then you shouldn't have too much trouble.

Keysight use a different UI approach, and it can change a lot between different 'scopes.  I suspect that they put more resources into the UI for each model.
Quote
Most of the same problems in its interface almost as if owon is copying it like for like.
I don't see the similarity.  The Owon button layout isn't even orderly -- look at that DMM button wedged in there.
I don't see the commonality between tek scopes other than the DPO2000/3000/4000/5000 series had for a while, the scopes before and after then have departed away from what was a great UI design.
 

Offline hans

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2017, 09:56:37 am »
12-bit of 14-bit 0.5GSPS ADC's from like TI/National Semi are incredibly expensive. In the order of 250$+ per chip in 1k quantity.
Given typical markup of a product, that would be almost half the cost of this entire unit.

So yes I would be very interested to see what kind of ADC they have used. Given 100MSPS 14-bit and 500MSPS 12-bit modes, it almost can't be some kind of (implicit) high-res mode/oversampling, because you need a factor 16x for that.
.. unless the scope actually has a 1.6GSPS 12-bit ADC, like the TI ADC12D800RF. Does 14-bit only work on 1 ch or 2chs?

Regarding the design: I think Rigol equipment are not far off. Their front panel silkscreen is just as wanky, but they atleast kept the knobs white.

 

Offline abraxa

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2017, 10:52:56 am »
12-bit of 14-bit 0.5GSPS ADC's from like TI/National Semi are incredibly expensive. In the order of 250$+ per chip in 1k quantity.
Given typical markup of a product, that would be almost half the cost of this entire unit.

So yes I would be very interested to see what kind of ADC they have used. Given 100MSPS 14-bit and 500MSPS 12-bit modes, it almost can't be some kind of (implicit) high-res mode/oversampling, because you need a factor 16x for that.
.. unless the scope actually has a 1.6GSPS 12-bit ADC, like the TI ADC12D800RF. Does 14-bit only work on 1 ch or 2chs?

Regarding the design: I think Rigol equipment are not far off. Their front panel silkscreen is just as wanky, but they atleast kept the knobs white.

That is, assuming that you get a real ENOB of 12 or 14. This being Rigol, I wouldn't be surprised if the result of the oversampling calculation is 12 or 14 bit without using the required number of samples to perform the necessary oversampling. That way, they can use those numbers in the marketing material while keeping cost low. Most users won't ever notice whether the values are accurate or not anyway, especially with sinc interpolation enabled.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2017, 10:58:55 am »
12-bit of 14-bit 0.5GSPS ADC's from like TI/National Semi are incredibly expensive. In the order of 250$+ per chip in 1k quantity.

I have not tore it down yet, but almost certain it will use a HMCAD1520
http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/hmcad1520.pdf

Only 11.8 ENOB in 14 bit mode (which is software 20MHz limited BTW @ 100MS/s)
« Last Edit: May 24, 2017, 11:01:02 am by EEVblog »
 
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Offline NANDBlog

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2017, 11:40:45 am »
I got the impression, that some of the features are not working as they are supposed to...
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Offline Tom45

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2017, 01:06:49 pm »
Having to press and hold the power button to turn it is probably a good feature given that this is (or can be) a battery operated scope. It would be frustrating to arrive at a job site and find that the battery was dead because the power button got bumped in transit.
 

Offline RGB255_0_0

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2017, 01:14:05 pm »
Having to press and hold the power button to turn it is probably a good feature given that this is (or can be) a battery operated scope. It would be frustrating to arrive at a job site and find that the battery was dead because the power button got bumped in transit.
Should have a decent carry case that avoids that anyway. If the power switch can be easily bumped so the scope turns on, then its ability to turn on will not be the only problem.
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2017, 01:43:03 pm »
That back RCA (Cinch) connector is a Composite video output according to the user manual.
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Online Brumby

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2017, 02:43:42 pm »
That back RCA (Cinch) connector is a Composite video output according to the user manual.

That was my first thought when I saw it - but then I asked ... WHY?

After seeing it formally identified as such - I still ask .... WHY?
 
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Offline AF6LJ

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Re: New OWON 14bit XDS3202A Oscilloscope
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2017, 03:16:22 pm »
I am completely floored....
I cannot believe that scope was released in the messed shape it is in..
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