Author Topic: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope  (Read 90689 times)

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Offline supercilious

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #500 on: January 15, 2019, 04:47:23 pm »
Keysight's lower-end scopes are too low memory to be even considered for my purposes, 1M (or even 10M) is just not acceptable in 2019. Shame as they are nice scopes otherwise. No other UI feels as fast as the Keysight instruments in my experience.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #501 on: January 15, 2019, 07:56:35 pm »
Would you still buy the Rigol MSO5074 or go with the new Keysight?

Rigol is hackable so you get all options/upgrades for $999

 

Offline TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #502 on: January 15, 2019, 08:05:44 pm »
Would you still buy the Rigol MSO5074 or go with the new Keysight?

Rigol is hackable so you get all options/upgrades for $999
So far it is the same for Keysight scopes
 

Offline thomil

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #503 on: January 15, 2019, 08:24:41 pm »
Would you still buy the Rigol MSO5074 or go with the new Keysight?

Rigol is hackable so you get all options/upgrades for $999
So far it is the same for Keysight scopes

I think I read in another thread that the new 4 channel 1000 series scopes from Keysight are Linux based, whereas the 2 channel versions were Windows CE based. Are there any reports whether the old hacking methods still apply to the 4 Linux based versions?

Anyway, this is probably OT in here.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #504 on: January 15, 2019, 10:48:27 pm »
Quote
Closer to Rigol DS1000z than to MSO5000 series.

Yepp.
Much more memory, more math functions, ten times more waveform updates, bigger screen and so on.
No comparison.

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #505 on: January 15, 2019, 11:44:28 pm »
Keysight announced the 1000X series 4-channel scopes and they start at USD 998 in the US for the base model, $1204 with AWG...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keysight-4-channel-scope-(1200-x-series)/msg2120590/#msg2120590

Would you still buy the Rigol MSO5074 or go with the new Keysight?
These scopes aren't comparable at all. MSO5074 is more in the league of Keysight's 3000 series or R&S RTB2000.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online TheSteve

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #506 on: January 15, 2019, 11:45:42 pm »
Keysight announced the 1000X series 4-channel scopes and they start at USD 998 in the US for the base model, $1204 with AWG...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keysight-4-channel-scope-(1200-x-series)/msg2120590/#msg2120590

Would you still buy the Rigol MSO5074 or go with the new Keysight?
These scopes aren't comparable at all. MSO5074 is more in the league of Keysight's 3000 series or R&S RTB2000.

Maybe the Keysight 2000, but not the 3000.
VE7FM
 
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Online mrpackethead

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #507 on: January 16, 2019, 03:43:39 am »
Keysight announced the 1000X series 4-channel scopes and they start at USD 998 in the US for the base model, $1204 with AWG...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keysight-4-channel-scope-(1200-x-series)/msg2120590/#msg2120590

Would you still buy the Rigol MSO5074 or go with the new Keysight?
These scopes aren't comparable at all. MSO5074 is more in the league of Keysight's 3000 series or R&S RTB2000.

Maybe the Keysight 2000, but not the 3000.

I have a 5074 and a keysight 3000.  The 3000 is definately better than the 5074! But its also a LOT more expensive.

On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Online Electro Fan

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #508 on: January 16, 2019, 05:30:42 am »
Keysight announced the 1000X series 4-channel scopes and they start at USD 998 in the US for the base model, $1204 with AWG...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keysight-4-channel-scope-(1200-x-series)/msg2120590/#msg2120590

Would you still buy the Rigol MSO5074 or go with the new Keysight?
These scopes aren't comparable at all. MSO5074 is more in the league of Keysight's 3000 series or R&S RTB2000.

Maybe the Keysight 2000, but not the 3000.

I have a 5074 and a keysight 3000.  The 3000 is definately better than the 5074! But its also a LOT more expensive.

What are the top features/functions/performance specs or other criteria that make the Keysight 3000 definitely better than the Rigol 5074?
 

Online mrpackethead

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #509 on: January 16, 2019, 06:41:15 am »
Keysight announced the 1000X series 4-channel scopes and they start at USD 998 in the US for the base model, $1204 with AWG...

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-keysight-4-channel-scope-(1200-x-series)/msg2120590/#msg2120590

Would you still buy the Rigol MSO5074 or go with the new Keysight?
These scopes aren't comparable at all. MSO5074 is more in the league of Keysight's 3000 series or R&S RTB2000.

Maybe the Keysight 2000, but not the 3000.

I have a 5074 and a keysight 3000.  The 3000 is definately better than the 5074! But its also a LOT more expensive.

What are the top features/functions/performance specs or other criteria that make the Keysight 3000 definitely better than the Rigol 5074?

Its got a lot less bugs than the 5074.  Mine is 1Ghz.  Its UI is far better, the screen nicer..   50R inputs,       
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #510 on: January 16, 2019, 11:14:17 am »
Autopobe interfaces
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #511 on: January 16, 2019, 12:50:44 pm »
Autopobe interfaces
Autoprobe interface in 3000 series is not fully featured. It doesn't have full current capability. First one with full interface is 4000 series.
 

Offline IanMacdonald

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #512 on: January 16, 2019, 02:51:23 pm »
White stuff gets really dirty really quickly. Black stuff you can't see it as bad.
Black ThinkPad here too which is really mucky but you can't see it :)

Yellowing by sunlight is a really big problem with white plastic. It seems to go right through the material and you can't even sand or grind it off.
 

Offline TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #513 on: January 16, 2019, 03:04:09 pm »
White stuff gets really dirty really quickly. Black stuff you can't see it as bad.
Black ThinkPad here too which is really mucky but you can't see it :)

Yellowing by sunlight is a really big problem with white plastic. It seems to go right through the material and you can't even sand or grind it off.
There is a technique called RetroBrite to remove the yellowing from vintage plastic.  It is used extensively to restore vintage personal computers
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #514 on: January 16, 2019, 06:58:29 pm »
Maybe the Keysight 2000, but not the 3000.

Yep, rigol itself compares the 5000 with the keysight 2000 or the tek mso 2000 series.



Offline LapTop006

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #515 on: January 17, 2019, 04:36:15 am »
Autopobe interfaces
Autoprobe interface in 3000 series is not fully featured. It doesn't have full current capability. First one with full interface is 4000 series.

S-series I think, the 4k/6k series don't support non-5v probes.
 

Offline 2N3055

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #516 on: January 17, 2019, 10:44:53 am »
Autopobe interfaces
Autoprobe interface in 3000 series is not fully featured. It doesn't have full current capability. First one with full interface is 4000 series.

S-series I think, the 4k/6k series don't support non-5v probes.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear.  In addition that it doesn't support all the probes as S series, 3000T cannot have some probe combinations connected at the same time.

See here, from the Keysight itself:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/keysight-3000t-probe-compatibility/msg1107914/#msg1107914
 

Offline Shodge

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #517 on: January 19, 2019, 06:02:04 am »
Just received my 5072.  Went through the simple 'upgrade' and this scope is very nice.  I was slightly disappointed in the AWG - limited frequency and voltage will hamper its use.

Does anyone know how to set the trigger to the beginning of the buffer?  It seems you can change where the horz expansion takes place but not move the trigger point?  Maybe I am overlooking something....

Thanks,
-Stan
 

Offline Shodge

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #518 on: January 20, 2019, 05:35:57 am »
I answered my own question.  The answer is not quite as straight forward as setting the trigger point in memory.  Instead you must shrink the horz to see the full captured data, then scroll it to manipulate its location in the buffer.  It works....  I was able to capture about 10 seconds of 9600 baud decoded serial data and scroll through it.  Used the serial data = xx trigger and zoom to move around the data.  Pretty nice.

I also did not see much talk of it but there is a web based control / view as well.  Not real fast - but it does not need to be.  Works well...

FYI..
 

Offline Rora

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #519 on: January 21, 2019, 11:07:35 am »
I'm also trying to decide between Keysight 1000X and Rigol 5000 series. Spec-wise, the Rigol blows it out of the water, but I'll be using it for a general purpose microcontroller stuff, paired with a Saleae Logic Pro. Although scopes are considered the primary workhorse of any electronics lab, for strictly microcontroller work it seems agreed that the logic analyzer takes this role. Custom decoding profiles on the Saleae make it a necessity.

The spec's should make it an easy decision, but I'm actually considering whether the better UI and smaller form factor are more practical on an everyday basis than an extra 1.75x bandwidth, 4x Gsa/sec, 200x Mpts, and 10x wfms/s. There's also touchscreen, which seems nice but I wonder how often it would really be a gamechanger. I wouldn't be investing in the MSO adapter so that feature isn't useful to me.

On paper, this seems like a stupid comparison, but in practice, the Keysight seems a lot more refined and nice to use, and the spec's seem more than enough for my purposes. Hypothetically when working on microcontrollers, this would only be used for verifying signal integrity, after which most of the debugging work would be done on the Saleae. As much as I'd like to pay less for much bigger numbers, I suspect most of the capability will go unused, unlike a faster, better designed UI.

Thoughts? How much better is the Keysight UI, really? What are the differences in practice, and how would those affect work efficiency with microcontrollers?
« Last Edit: January 21, 2019, 11:23:07 am by Rora »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #520 on: January 21, 2019, 12:55:20 pm »
Hypothetically when working on microcontrollers, this would only be used for verifying signal integrity, after which most of the debugging work would be done on the Saleae. As much as I'd like to pay less for much bigger numbers, I suspect most of the capability will go unused, unlike a faster, better designed UI.

For "signal integrity"? Bandwidth and sample rate are the most important things.

But...  if a Saleae is fast enough for your signals then I can't help thinking that even a hacked Rigol DS1054Z would be able to do the job. With a single channel you get 1GHz sample rate and nearly 200Mhz of bandwidth.



How much better is the Keysight UI, really?

That's going to be very subjective. I wouldn't make a decision like that by asking in forums, I'd want to try it myself.
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #521 on: January 21, 2019, 10:04:13 pm »
If I had the money, I´ll surely go for the R&S RTB 2004 - But I don´t and therefore I count on rigol for making their raw diamond to a shining one... ;)
By the way I did a request to rigol.eu for the first official firmware update, when it will be launched.
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #522 on: January 22, 2019, 06:50:04 pm »
Fast response:

They work hard on it, should be launched in the middle/end of february.
And it seems, they have their eyes on the problems posted here and in the bug-thread.. ;)

Martin

Offline Noy

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #523 on: January 22, 2019, 07:59:54 pm »
Hi I'm currently "upgrading" my equipment..
I sold my DS1054z and ordered a MSO5074.
I still have a Hameg HMO3504 but no pods and no 350MHz probes. So it was for me a better deal to buy the MSO and use the Rigol probes on both. And i will build a selfmade pod for the Rigol.
 
Also i sold my OLS and purchased the DSLogic Plus (wan't a USB LA because sometimes it is more comfortable).

Now I'm considering if it is worth to buy a FY6800-60? Or is the build in AWG from the MSO enough? I still have an old Toellner 7401.
Maybe i should sell him...?


Also hope they don't have their eyes to wide open.. so they don't shut up their scope.

A nice future use feature which i wish is the bode plot function like siglent have...
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 08:01:26 pm by Noy »
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #524 on: January 22, 2019, 08:34:08 pm »
Yes therefore I bought a 1104X-E before the 5000 had launched.
Together with an siglent arbitrary gen.
The generator I still have, I´m not trusting the build in awg….
In general, "7 in 1" or "5 in 1" intruments sounds for me like the "good old" stereo compact centers from the 70s/80s.  ;)



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