Author Topic: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope  (Read 76925 times)

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Offline alexvg

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #850 on: July 17, 2019, 11:46:49 am »
I've found a solution, here's the result (ambiant 25C - after 1h warm-up) :
- 50C @ internal regulator (18C lower)
- 40C @ hottest analog front-end channel (6C to 11C lower)
- 34C @ LA connector (22C lower)
- 34C @ hottest BNC connector (4C to 5C lower)
- The noise level is correct (same level as Siglent SDM3055)

Simple description (pictures come later) for this first modification "MSO5000_cooling_mod_a"
- You need to remove the metal protection panel
- Replace the original Sunon fan with a Noctua NF-A9 5V and mount with output airflow upside
- Create an airduct adapter to convert the original 80mm hole and screw holes to the new 92mm Noctua fan (height does not exceed 8mm)
- Pick the 5V on red wire from power supply and ground from hearth screw to the new Noctua fan (warning !!! 5V only !)
- Attach another Noctua NF-A12x15 FLX fan to the back-panel (airflow will come in), it will be over the power-supply
- Make a converter from the original Rigol 2-pin fan connector to a classical 3-pin fan connector and connect the new 120mm Noctua fan (after checking the ground to earth and +V to the green wire)
- Install the specific skirt (I'll post pictures and schematic later)

Pro :
- Not necessary to remove original metal fan-frame and the 4 rivets
- Temperatures are far below from the original design

Cons :
- Need to open the unit and remove the internal metal protection panel
- Noise is a little higher
- Need to buy 2 fans (Noctua NF-A9 5V and Noctua NF-A12x15 FLX)
- Need to create a 80 to 92mm airduct adapter with a small height (8mm)
- Attaching the 120mm fan to the back side of the box could be complicated


Airduct adapter 80 to 92mm fan using cardboard


Airduct schematic using 80-300g/m2 paper (.1mm = 1pixel)
* airduct-92mm-paper-cut.png (19.98 kB. 2000x2000 - viewed 21 times.)




« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 05:46:51 am by alexvg »
 
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Offline alexvg

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #851 on: July 17, 2019, 11:25:20 pm »
To lower the noise, I've done 2 modifications :
- I've removed the connection to the mainboard power supply fan connector. I've added a 50R resistor to the Noctua 120mm fan to the +9V from the power supply. You also could use the mainboard fan connector with a 12R resistor.
- I've added a 1N4007 diode to the Noctua 92mm 5V fan.

The global noise level is the same as the original Sunon fan.
I'm waiting for the temperature results...


update

Temperature results (original Rigol cooling/previous test/current test) :
Code: [Select]
internal regulator                 68C / 50C / 51C
hottest analog front-end channel   51C / 40C / 42C
LA connector                       56C / 34C / 41C
hottest BNC connector              39C / 34C / 37C

« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 02:01:43 am by alexvg »
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #852 on: July 17, 2019, 11:29:33 pm »
By the way, my question about the decreased fan power and if they (rigol) got it in mind what heating up the enviroment concerns due to this wouldn´t be answered until now.

Got the answer, it was tested by the developement department before release.

Offline alexvg

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #853 on: July 17, 2019, 11:38:32 pm »
I've received a similar answer...
Quote
The manufacturer (Rigol) has tested the equipment and informs us that the temperature released by the device is normal.

I think the cooling has been voluntary reduced to lower the noise but knowing that in the long-term, the life of the device would be decreased.



update:
I've done the new skirt with 300g/m2 paper, the results are little better (original Rigol cooling/previous test/90g paper test/300g paper test) :
Code: [Select]
internal regulator                 68C / 50C / 51C / 50C
hottest analog front-end channel   51C / 40C / 42C / 42C
LA connector                       56C / 34C / 41C / 39C
hottest BNC connector              39C / 34C / 37C / 38C

The new skirt fits perfectly !!!



update #2
I've added a second diode to the Noctua 92mm 5V fan to reduce its speed and noise (now its voltage is 4.1V).
I've plugged the Noctua 120mm to the 9V output (its noise keep very low).

Temperature results (original Rigol cooling/this test)
Code: [Select]
internal regulator                 68C / 51C
hottest analog front-end channel   51C / 42C
LA connector                       56C / 42C
hottest BNC connector              39C / 37C
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 07:45:12 pm by alexvg »
 

Offline hhappy1

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #854 on: July 24, 2019, 10:33:40 am »
Hi. sir.~

The arbitrary waveform format is '.arb'

Do you know the editing software?

I don't think it's compatible with other devices.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #855 on: July 25, 2019, 07:40:20 am »
Hi. sir.~

The arbitrary waveform format is '.arb'
Do you know the editing software?

I don't think it's compatible with other devices.

Ultra Station uses: csv, raf, txt as extensions.
The format looks very simple so maybe you just need to rename it to csv and it will work?
Code: [Select]
x-axis,WaveGen-ARB
second,Volt
0.000000E+00,1.0000E-01
2.857143E-02,0.0000E+00
5.714286E-02,1.0000E-03
8.571429E-02,2.0000E-03
1.142857E-01,3.0000E-03
1.428571E-01,0.0000E+00
1.714286E-01,0.0000E+00
 

Wow though, I never even knew you could edit an ARB waveform on the scope itself, very cool. That could be super useful if they had a non-50 ohm output... or you could throw on a simple buffer circuit powered via USB.
edit: playing with it too much can lock up the UI though.
edit2: no its completely different format than csv or txt, so for now you'd have to convert it, I have no idea why they did that. I think this format is the best though (csv/txt used fixed time steps).
« Last Edit: July 25, 2019, 07:52:13 am by thm_w »
 

Offline mabl

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #856 on: August 01, 2019, 09:56:15 pm »
Ultra Station uses: csv, raf, txt as extensions.
The format looks very simple so maybe you just need to rename it to csv and it will work?
Code: [Select]
x-axis,WaveGen-ARB
second,Volt
0.000000E+00,1.0000E-01
2.857143E-02,0.0000E+00
5.714286E-02,1.0000E-03
8.571429E-02,2.0000E-03
1.142857E-01,3.0000E-03
1.428571E-01,0.0000E+00
1.714286E-01,0.0000E+00
 

When saved as .arb file, the scope successfully loads the voltage levels.
 
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Offline mabl

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #857 on: Yesterday at 01:06:51 am »
Problem is with the fact that it is not specified how HIRES is done and that you have no control over how many averages (how many bits) HIRES is doing. They might be doing it with filter of length 2 which would only give 0,5 bit enhancement which would pretty much be not visible.
It should be made like averaging so you can set how many bits of enhancement you want and it should correspondingly show effective sampling rate AND effective bandwidth with that filter setting..

At least the new firmware shows the 3-db bandwidth of the HIRES mode whenever sample rate/memory depth changes....
 
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Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #858 on: Yesterday at 06:37:38 am »
New firmware.....
Doesn´t appear for downloading at the rigol USA or Europe site so far.

What the hi-res thing concerns, everyone knows that I´m moaning about as you can´t see anything "better" in this mode.
Maybe I get things wrong, because:
Actually we have a lecroy HDO scope on loan, which got a "natural" 12 bit resolution.
And I measured the same signal as months before ( must search here), a sinewave current over an 1 \$\Omega\$ shunt.
And it appears as noisy as on 8-bit scopes.
After choosing the "Eres" function, +3bit, it becomes "clean" to see.
Could it be that enhanced resolution does not equal a higher vertical resolution in general, rather somekind of filtering ?


Online Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #859 on: Yesterday at 06:58:23 am »
Could it be that enhanced resolution does not equal a higher vertical resolution in general, rather somekind of filtering ?

Yes.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #860 on: Yesterday at 07:07:20 am »
Ah, so I want to put it on my wishlist for further updates.
Even siglent´s lower cost models got this function…



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