Author Topic: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope  (Read 85272 times)

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Offline julianhigginson

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #425 on: December 14, 2018, 08:20:33 am »
Excellent! so glad to see the basic serial decode working properly.
I'm on track to buy a 4 channel @200MHz  with the bundle sometime in the next year, if their bugfix performance looks good.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #426 on: December 15, 2018, 09:46:50 pm »
Excellent! so glad to see the basic serial decode working properly.
I'm on track to buy a 4 channel @200MHz  with the bundle sometime in the next year, if their bugfix performance looks good.

As noted in the other thread, their new flagship 7000 scopes run basically the same firmware so I expect they're working flat out on this. They need to get it working ASAP.

 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #427 on: December 15, 2018, 10:07:54 pm »
Yesterday our WS3024 returned after external calibration so I had an direct visual comparison.
Yeah...quite more "look and feel" professional building quality, bigger and brighter screen, better structered menus...in this points the rigol lost against the "little" Lecroy.
But we´re talking about a prize of appx 3 times more than a 5074 and in some cases the WS3024 appears slower and haven´t all the features the rigol got.
Nevertheless it couldn´t be magic to create a design nearly to scopes like the Lecroy WS3024 what the frontpanel design and the menu structure concerns.
As I said before, I don´t mind about the "Mickey Mouse" design in general.
But in direct comparison vis a vis, the rigol looks like a toy for children... ;)
Although it isn´t of course in technical way but I can understand Dave´s comments in the vids where he´s presenting the 5000 and 7000s rigol(no fully reviews..come on Dave).
We´re talking about scopes fully armed (in "legal" way) between 5000...12000€.
The technical abillities in general might be justifying the prices if rigol fixed some issues.
But the design.....



Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #428 on: December 15, 2018, 11:03:36 pm »
Who cares about the design. You don't have to take the oscilloscope to dinner. However the design of the MSO5000 could have been less cluttered. Rigol should'nt have put the buttons on the side of the screen. A touch screen makes them redundant.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #429 on: December 15, 2018, 11:15:25 pm »
Could someone measure the waveform update rate of MSO5000 under various conditions (e. g. all channels on, serial decoding on)?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 11:37:10 pm by Hydrawerk »
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Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #430 on: December 15, 2018, 11:20:37 pm »
@nctnico
I don´t get the advantages of a touch screen in case of a measurement tool like an oscilloscope….

Quote
Could someone measure the waveform update rate of MSO5000?

Next week
 
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Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #431 on: December 15, 2018, 11:34:57 pm »
@nctnico
I don´t get the advantages of a touch screen in case of a measurement tool like an oscilloscope….
I have an R&S RTM3004 and a MicSig TO1104 (both with touch screen) and I'm finding the touch screen a big improvement for making settings beyond the horizontal and vertical controls (*). BUT the interface on these oscilloscopes has been designed for touch from the ground up. Last year I've also played shortly with a Keysight S series (IIRC) which has a touch screen as well . However in that oscilloscope the UI hasn't really been designed for touch. Many of the menus and screen elements are too small to touch so operating the scope gets tedious. I don't know how well Rigol has designed to UI to work with a touch screen.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2018, 11:39:18 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #432 on: December 15, 2018, 11:37:50 pm »
Oh, a Micsig...It´s Offtopic but what are your thoughts on this, we´re  searching for a mobile scope for services

Offline nctnico

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #433 on: December 15, 2018, 11:43:24 pm »
Oh, a Micsig...It´s Offtopic but what are your thoughts on this, we´re  searching for a mobile scope for services
Offtopic it goes then: IMHO unlike other handheld scopes the Micsig TO1000 is also useful as a bench scope. I'd say it is a bench scope without buttons but with a battery. If you are looking for a portable scope I'd certainly give it a try. What is special about the TO1000 is that it can record to video so you can save a life signal as a video.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Synthtech

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #434 on: December 16, 2018, 06:43:38 am »
Another vote for the Micsig, it’s fantastic to drop anywhere and start probing.
 

Offline supercilious

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #435 on: December 16, 2018, 07:39:36 pm »
Next week

Could I also request that you measure the data transfer rate? How long does it take to transfer 100M samples using SCPI to a PC via USB and/or ethernet? This was always an Achilles heel for Rigol scopes and made them much less useful than they would otherwise be with their large sample memory compared to the competition.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #436 on: December 16, 2018, 08:17:47 pm »
Hi,

This could I do at home later. ( I´ll take the scope back to home on forthcoming friday).

The update rates measures will be done tomorrow.


 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #437 on: December 16, 2018, 08:58:07 pm »
Could I also request that you measure the data transfer rate?

And the screen refresh rate when using remote access?  :popcorn:

(plz)
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #438 on: December 16, 2018, 09:37:45 pm »
I must confess, I´d never used scopes with a connection via pc so far…..no, stop...we use "scope explorer" by our older lecroys to transfer screenshots ( cause they didn´t have usb ), it´s awesome slow..


Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #439 on: December 17, 2018, 06:09:17 pm »
Hi,

Feeding in a 25Mhz Sine into the rigol, zoom to one period (5ns/div.), also using the full vertical grid.





Memory Depth:             Wfs/s:
1K                                530000
10K                              94000
100K                            61000
1M                                 7842
10M                                 798
25M                                 320
50M                                 160
100M                                 80

If I did it right, these are the results.
 
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Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #440 on: December 17, 2018, 06:20:22 pm »
Thank you.
Amazing machines. https://www.youtube.com/user/denha (It is not me...)
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #441 on: December 17, 2018, 06:29:43 pm »
Wednesday I test it with all channels on.

Offline Swap_File

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #442 on: December 17, 2018, 06:46:25 pm »
Anyone have a chance to break open the PLA2216 logic probes and see what's inside?  I'm considering building my own since I doubt they use $400 worth of parts.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 06:51:37 pm by Swap_File »
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #443 on: December 18, 2018, 10:47:38 pm »
Quote
I doubt they use $400 worth of parts.


Sure they don´t.

None make an offer worth the prices of the parts.


Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #444 on: December 20, 2018, 09:47:29 pm »
Today, I did some measurements on a signalboard which delivers among others a three-phase pwm signal.
And I was a little bit dissapointed.
As known from all the different lecroy models on the work, as known from the SDS1104X-E, the MSO 5074 couldn´t display a "stable" pwm-signal.
I couldn´t describe it better, but the signal "jitters" on the screen, as if you don´t have the trigger proper set.
On the lecroys/siglent, the signal is "stable" displaying.
Sure, with single-shot pressing one after another you can see the signal width going from small to wide and back - But it´s annoying and it would be much more comfortable and less irritating when the rigol does it like lecroy/siglent.
And I try to use the "lowpass" math function to seperate the sinewave out from the pwm.
To set the cutoff frequency of say 1000hz, you must set the timebase of several hundreds of milli-seconds.
It works, but you can´t see much from the sinewave which period is way shorter than the actual timebase set.
Therefore a free selectable cutoff frequency independent from the timebase would be necessary, otherwise the filter functions makes no sense at all.

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #445 on: December 21, 2018, 04:40:40 pm »
Today I did the last measurements before Christmas Holidays.
Specially the waveform update rate with more than one channel, the update rate by spi decoding.

First of all, the behaviour of the rigol in case of wfs/s is exactly the same as here:



Nothing bad, but remarkable.

Wavefrom updates during decoding spi : appx. 90wfs/s
Waveform updates decreasing while using math, in my case displaying FFT : No.


Waveform updates one channel as expected over 500000:



With more channels on between 70000.....90000, still an excellent result.
And : It decreases one time when more than one channel is active, it don´t decrease further.

Interesting:
The measurements were taken with a 25Mhz Sine at 5ns/div.
But if you zoom out to 20ns/div AND with all channels on, the waveform rate increases to appx 200000...hm.

Martin



« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 04:42:46 pm by Martin72 »
 
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Offline orion242

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #446 on: December 26, 2018, 12:49:03 am »
Just ordered the 5074 from RigolNA tonight.   Estimated ship date ">8 weeks".

Must have sold a few.

Had the 1052, upgraded to the 1054z shortly after that came out.  The HDMI output and bigger screen for the price sold me on the 5074 alone.  The 1052 would still serve my needs, but for the price and features of the new devices seems silly not to upgrade if you have the cash.  Beats the living snot out of the old crow I had before I met Rigol.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2018, 12:51:27 am by orion242 »
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #447 on: December 26, 2018, 11:41:21 am »
In comparison with the 1054z, it´s really an upgrade buying the 5074.
FFT and other math functions are faster and can be displayed alone, the bigger screen....
At this Points I´m confident with the 5074.

Offline mrpackethead

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #448 on: December 26, 2018, 03:48:32 pm »
Just ordered the 5074 from RigolNA tonight.   Estimated ship date ">8 weeks".

Must have sold a few.

Had the 1052, upgraded to the 1054z shortly after that came out.  The HDMI output and bigger screen for the price sold me on the 5074 alone.  The 1052 would still serve my needs, but for the price and features of the new devices seems silly not to upgrade if you have the cash.  Beats the living snot out of the old crow I had before I met Rigol.

It will be interesting to see if Rigol makes any attempts to 'update' any new firmware versions to make them somewhat more secure.
On a quest to find increasingly complicated ways to blink things
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #449 on: December 26, 2018, 04:13:15 pm »
It will be interesting to see if Rigol makes any attempts to 'update' any new firmware versions to make them somewhat more secure.

...because I'm sure they want to sell less:palm:
 


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