Author Topic: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope  (Read 275013 times)

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Online Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #850 on: July 17, 2019, 01:29:33 pm »
By the way, my question about the decreased fan power and if they (rigol) got it in mind what heating up the enviroment concerns due to this wouldn´t be answered until now.

Got the answer, it was tested by the developement department before release.

Offline alexvg

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #851 on: July 17, 2019, 01:38:32 pm »
I've received a similar answer...
Quote
The manufacturer (Rigol) has tested the equipment and informs us that the temperature released by the device is normal.

I think the cooling has been voluntary reduced to lower the noise but knowing that in the long-term, the life of the device would be decreased.



update:
I've done the new skirt with 300g/m2 paper, the results are little better (original Rigol cooling/previous test/90g paper test/300g paper test) :
Code: [Select]
internal regulator                 68C / 50C / 51C / 50C
hottest analog front-end channel   51C / 40C / 42C / 42C
LA connector                       56C / 34C / 41C / 39C
hottest BNC connector              39C / 34C / 37C / 38C

The new skirt fits perfectly !!!



update #2
I've added a second diode to the Noctua 92mm 5V fan to reduce its speed and noise (now its voltage is 4.1V).
I've plugged the Noctua 120mm to the 9V output (its noise keep very low).

Temperature results (original Rigol cooling/this test)
Code: [Select]
internal regulator                 68C / 51C
hottest analog front-end channel   51C / 42C
LA connector                       56C / 42C
hottest BNC connector              39C / 37C
« Last Edit: July 18, 2019, 09:45:12 am by alexvg »
 

Offline hhappy1

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #852 on: July 24, 2019, 12:33:40 am »
Hi. sir.~

The arbitrary waveform format is '.arb'

Do you know the editing software?

I don't think it's compatible with other devices.
 

Online thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #853 on: July 24, 2019, 09:40:20 pm »
Hi. sir.~

The arbitrary waveform format is '.arb'
Do you know the editing software?

I don't think it's compatible with other devices.

Ultra Station uses: csv, raf, txt as extensions.
The format looks very simple so maybe you just need to rename it to csv and it will work?
Code: [Select]
x-axis,WaveGen-ARB
second,Volt
0.000000E+00,1.0000E-01
2.857143E-02,0.0000E+00
5.714286E-02,1.0000E-03
8.571429E-02,2.0000E-03
1.142857E-01,3.0000E-03
1.428571E-01,0.0000E+00
1.714286E-01,0.0000E+00
 

Wow though, I never even knew you could edit an ARB waveform on the scope itself, very cool. That could be super useful if they had a non-50 ohm output... or you could throw on a simple buffer circuit powered via USB.
edit: playing with it too much can lock up the UI though.
edit2: no its completely different format than csv or txt, so for now you'd have to convert it, I have no idea why they did that. I think this format is the best though (csv/txt used fixed time steps).
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 09:52:13 pm by thm_w »
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Offline mabl

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #854 on: August 01, 2019, 11:56:15 am »
Ultra Station uses: csv, raf, txt as extensions.
The format looks very simple so maybe you just need to rename it to csv and it will work?
Code: [Select]
x-axis,WaveGen-ARB
second,Volt
0.000000E+00,1.0000E-01
2.857143E-02,0.0000E+00
5.714286E-02,1.0000E-03
8.571429E-02,2.0000E-03
1.142857E-01,3.0000E-03
1.428571E-01,0.0000E+00
1.714286E-01,0.0000E+00
 

When saved as .arb file, the scope successfully loads the voltage levels.
 
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Offline mabl

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #855 on: August 18, 2019, 03:06:51 pm »
Problem is with the fact that it is not specified how HIRES is done and that you have no control over how many averages (how many bits) HIRES is doing. They might be doing it with filter of length 2 which would only give 0,5 bit enhancement which would pretty much be not visible.
It should be made like averaging so you can set how many bits of enhancement you want and it should correspondingly show effective sampling rate AND effective bandwidth with that filter setting..

At least the new firmware shows the 3-db bandwidth of the HIRES mode whenever sample rate/memory depth changes....
 
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Online Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #856 on: August 18, 2019, 08:37:38 pm »
New firmware.....
Doesn´t appear for downloading at the rigol USA or Europe site so far.

What the hi-res thing concerns, everyone knows that I´m moaning about as you can´t see anything "better" in this mode.
Maybe I get things wrong, because:
Actually we have a lecroy HDO scope on loan, which got a "natural" 12 bit resolution.
And I measured the same signal as months before ( must search here), a sinewave current over an 1 \$\Omega\$ shunt.
And it appears as noisy as on 8-bit scopes.
After choosing the "Eres" function, +3bit, it becomes "clean" to see.
Could it be that enhanced resolution does not equal a higher vertical resolution in general, rather somekind of filtering ?


Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #857 on: August 18, 2019, 08:58:23 pm »
Could it be that enhanced resolution does not equal a higher vertical resolution in general, rather somekind of filtering ?

Yes.
 

Online Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #858 on: August 18, 2019, 09:07:20 pm »
Ah, so I want to put it on my wishlist for further updates.
Even siglent´s lower cost models got this function…


Online Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #859 on: August 19, 2019, 09:03:54 pm »
And I did it on my wishlist and wrote a mail to rigol…

The confuison was that lecroy claimed the enhanced resolution thing as a benefit of the vertical resolution instead as a filter.
So you can read for example vertical resolution 8bit ( with enhanced resolution 11 bit) in the specs.
Enhanced resolution is a noise filter, nevertheless rigol didn´t have this on the 3 models I know (DS1054, DS2072, MSO5).
Would be a nice to have…...

Online tautech

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #860 on: August 19, 2019, 09:39:16 pm »
Ah, so I want to put it on my wishlist for further updates.
Even siglent´s lower cost models got this function…
All recent models for ~5 years !

It's just another necessary tool in the toolbox !
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Online Martin72

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #861 on: August 19, 2019, 10:32:15 pm »
I was massive surprised as I exprierence it on my former siglent sds 1104x-e scope.
Every scope should have this function and I was what this concerns really clear to rigol.


Offline Hydrawerk

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #862 on: September 10, 2019, 02:11:08 pm »
Hello, is it a good idea to buy a RIGOL MSO5102 now? Is it a mature product now? Well, it was introduced many months ago. Is the firmware still buggy? BTW I still have my DSOX2002A bought back in 2013 and it is OK. The memory is not that huge, but it is enought for me.
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Offline MegaVolt

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #863 on: September 10, 2019, 09:17:50 pm »
Hello, is it a good idea to buy a RIGOL MSO5102 now? Is it a mature product now? Well, it was introduced many months ago. Is the firmware still buggy? BTW I still have my DSOX2002A bought back in 2013 and it is OK. The memory is not that huge, but it is enought for me.
It is better to take MSO5104. The difference in price is exactly equal to the price of two probes.

The oscilloscope itself is quite working. Especially if you are not interested in 50 ohms. There are nuances but they are not great.
 

Online TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #864 on: September 10, 2019, 10:48:58 pm »
Hello, is it a good idea to buy a RIGOL MSO5102 now? Is it a mature product now? Well, it was introduced many months ago. Is the firmware still buggy? BTW I still have my DSOX2002A bought back in 2013 and it is OK. The memory is not that huge, but it is enought for me.
Why MSO5102 if you are going to hack it?  Buy the MSO5074
 

Online TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #865 on: September 23, 2019, 12:47:43 pm »
I saved a Wave in .csv format (another option is .bin)... but when I want to load it back, it only loads .wfm files... Am I missing something??? :palm: :palm: :palm:
 

Online thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #866 on: September 23, 2019, 08:54:06 pm »
I saved a Wave in .csv format (another option is .bin)... but when I want to load it back, it only loads .wfm files... Am I missing something??? :palm: :palm: :palm:

Don't think you are missing anything. We discussed a bit here but about the arb formats: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/blog/new-rigol-scope/msg2568447/#msg2568447

You can save and load waveforms if you use Reference button, then Export, it will let you save in bin/csv/ref. Then when you load a waveform it accepts .ref (why its necessary for another format again, not sure).
Looks like ref is about 80kB to 800kB+ for a file, whereas bin file is 4x larger 320K to 3MB (depending on pts). So Ref only saves 1 channel whereas "save wave" should save all channels it seems.

You could submit it as a bug to support.
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Offline Fungus

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #867 on: September 24, 2019, 12:56:04 am »
I saved a Wave in .csv format (another option is .bin)... but when I want to load it back, it only loads .wfm files... Am I missing something??? :palm: :palm: :palm:

Yes.

.wfm files have a lot of extra meta-information that .csv doesn't have (eg. vertical position on screen, vertical scale, horizontal scale, memory depth, etc...)

It would be very difficult to load .csv and get your exact screen display back.

You could submit it as a bug to support.

It's not a bug. Once you start with "load .csv" then it's a long and slippery slope. People would want to generate lists of numbers in Excel/Python/Random-data-logging-device then expect to load them into the 'scope and do FFTs on it, etc.

It's an oscilloscope, not a spreadsheet.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 01:04:26 am by Fungus »
 

Online TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #868 on: September 24, 2019, 12:04:32 pm »
If what you are saving with "Save Wave" is different from what you are reading with "Load Wave", then at least Rigol must change the name on the menu.  It is confusing.
 

Online thm_w

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #869 on: September 24, 2019, 08:55:31 pm »
It's not a bug. Once you start with "load .csv" then it's a long and slippery slope. People would want to generate lists of numbers in Excel/Python/Random-data-logging-device then expect to load them into the 'scope and do FFTs on it, etc.

It's an oscilloscope, not a spreadsheet.

No, load CSV is not the bug I'm implying, that would be an added feature, "save as .wfm" is the bug. DS1000/2000 can both save in wfm format afaik.

edit: I tried loading a DS1052E .wfm file and it stated "invalid file format", but I think that is expected that different series are incompatible. Its also very hard to find example ds1000/ds2000 example WFM files online to download.
There is also this: https://rigol.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/2282335-wfm-converter
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 09:07:37 pm by thm_w »
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Offline delfinom

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #870 on: October 03, 2019, 04:11:57 am »
MSO5000 now has a special promo until March that unlocks all serial decoding and power analysis for free

https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0065:d-0001/0/-/-/-/-/index.htm
 

Online TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #871 on: October 03, 2019, 10:37:23 am »
MSO5000 now has a special promo until March that unlocks all serial decoding and power analysis for free

https://beyondmeasure.rigoltech.com/acton/form/1579/0065:d-0001/0/-/-/-/-/index.htm
And wavegen
 

Offline matlipinski

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #872 on: October 23, 2019, 12:30:10 pm »
MSO5000 now has a special promo until March that unlocks all serial decoding and power analysis for free but it applies only to new devices purchased after 10.10.2019. Nice RIGOL... I have bought few days earlier...  |O :-- There is no info about that anywhere!

 

Online TK

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #873 on: October 23, 2019, 12:46:16 pm »
MSO5000 now has a special promo until March that unlocks all serial decoding and power analysis for free but it applies only to new devices purchased after 10.10.2019. Nice RIGOL... I have bought few days earlier...  |O :-- There is no info about that anywhere!
They are not being transparent about the promotion, I was told it started October 1st by Rigol North America.   :rant:
 

Offline ebclr

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Re: EEVblog #1146 - New Low Cost Rigol MSO5000 Oscilloscope
« Reply #874 on: October 23, 2019, 12:57:22 pm »
Do the promotion yourself  :-DD It's not that hard   :-BROKE
 
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