Author Topic: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1  (Read 26726 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline f4eru

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 550
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2016, 04:26:54 pm »
Here's a classic one :

 

Offline Towger

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1551
  • Country: ie
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2016, 05:09:28 pm »
Quote
You don't see this very often

I've seen it several times on this very forum. It's a Rifa brand capacitor, isn't it?

Not just on this forum. I've seen several cracked X2 Rifas myself, luckily none completely vaporized like in some older IEC line filters.

They crack over time, I have a few unused ones I got about ~30 years ago and they have all split.

 

Offline bktemp

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1623
  • Country: de
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2016, 05:25:02 pm »
The cap on the picture has not seen voltage for years, it will go up in smoke within seconds or minutes if connected to mains ;-) should I try?
You could make a video, or send it to Dave, so he can make a video using his Sony RX100 IV camera to record the cap blowing up at 1000fps.
 

Offline gardner

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 124
  • Country: ca
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2016, 07:31:46 pm »
record the cap blowing up at 1000fps.

Maybe ask Mike to make a guest appearance on the Slow Mo Guys with his Destruct-O-Tron (tm).
--- Gardner
 

Offline jaromir

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 235
  • Country: sk
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2016, 09:14:58 pm »
Let me know if you like the idea or not
Though I love most of your other videos, I'm not sure about this segment.
I agree with some other folks suggesting to simply keep the photos of failed components in forum instead of doing commented slideshow. On the other hand, discussing failure modes in real life applications (that's what you did) has more value than deliberately destructing components just for video, as some other commenters suggested.
My hobby projects: https://hackaday.io/jaromir ----------- http://jaromir.xf.cz/
 

Offline TheWelly888

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 339
  • Country: gb
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2016, 09:33:02 pm »
A 30 year old Philips analogue scope (PM something) at work released the magic smoke whilst being used on my colleague's bench. The cloud hazed the workshop nicely and I was worried about the smoke detectors not setting off the fire alarm until I realised they were heat detectors!

The magic smoke was released from one of those X2 caps across the mains input.
You can do anything with the right attitude and a hammer.
 

Online richnormand

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 350
  • Country: ca
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2016, 11:26:41 pm »
@ Dave about the video:

How about expanding to look deeper into root cause, failure analysis, x-ray perhaps, some measurements of adjacent circuits, etc...
The idea would be to learn and figure out what happened.

That is the point that left me meh... about it.
Sorry, you did ask for reactions....



 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w

Offline EEVblog

  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 29673
  • Country: au
    • EEVblog
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2016, 11:37:28 pm »
How about expanding to look deeper into root cause, failure analysis, x-ray perhaps, some measurements of adjacent circuits, etc...
The idea would be to learn and figure out what happened.

Kinda impossible to do with just a photo, and not easy even if you have the board.
 

Offline rx8pilot

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3511
  • Country: us
  • If you want more money, be more valuable.
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2016, 11:59:01 pm »
I have smoked many PCB's, MOSFETS, DIODES, and other parts in the process of learning power electronics. Some of those events were a total mystery because the even unfolds so fast. It can take considerable amounts of time to figure out what went wrong or at least how to measure the system in s useful way just before the smoke escapes.

I would like to see the effect followed by cause if at all possible. Burnouts are an excellent learning experience and great discussion topic. For photos that I could send - I could also include the analysis of what happened or at least the best guess.
Factory400 - the worlds smallest factory. https://www.youtube.com/c/Factory400
 

Offline Tinkerer

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 346
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #34 on: October 22, 2016, 12:38:14 am »
Recently we had a failure under testing.

A 70V 8A rated diode went poof; it was sitting between VDC In and return. What caused this? Well, it was sitting at 35V for 30 min and then the voltage was dropped to 20V; note this was not with a constant current input. After about 15 seconds, it went poof.
Everyone is rather baffled by this because there isnt a reason this part should have died. The current thoughts are wrong part, defective part, or I think human error may have been ruled out at this point.
Although, it was hit by a 600volt transient in testing before this time. However one of the senior guys had already done thorough testing to prove the part could survive that so we are still baffled.
 

Offline meeko

  • Contributor
  • Posts: 32
  • Country: ca
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #35 on: October 22, 2016, 12:47:02 am »
No pictures, unfortunately, but back when I used to work at a computer store, in the service department, we had a PSU go bang.  The timing could hardly have been worse, either:  right as I turned the PC on to show the customer it was fixed!  :-[ Needless to say, the customer wasn't too impressed.  Of course, if it hadn't blown up then, it probably would have done soon, so it was probably for the best, really.

I swapped the PSU on the spot for him, and noticed that it rattled when I took it out.  After he left, I took it apart, and found that the seal on one of the output caps had failed catastrophically, and it was the perfectly intact can that was rattling around the PSU casing.  Even the foil was still intact!
 

Offline jonovid

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 777
  • Country: au
    • JONOVID
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #36 on: October 22, 2016, 01:10:05 am »
Quote
Quote
Quote from: richnormand on Today at 10:26:41 AM
How about expanding to look deeper into root cause, failure analysis, x-ray perhaps, some measurements of adjacent circuits, etc...
The idea would be to learn and figure out what happened.
Kinda impossible to do with just a photo, and not easy even if you have the board.
Your most helpful failure analysis video .                      EEVblog #735 - Mailbag  stop the video at 40:00 then play it to 50:50   the total video time = 54:22
most helpful LED lamp teardown.  I did use this EEVblog video to help avoid some unseen but common pitfalls in my LED lighting designs. :phew:
why you need a good thermal image camera in the lab,  :-+ if the budget will allow this:--
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 12:03:34 pm by jonovid »
Hobby of evil genius      basic knowledge of electronics
 

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 9219
  • Country: au
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #37 on: October 22, 2016, 03:11:18 am »
Certainly, it is interesting, but looking at the first EEVsmoke video, I can't say it stands out as being viable for it's own channel - at least not with the level of detail offered in this example.  However, stepping it up is no simple exercise.

As you have indicated, Dave, having it being driven by photographic contributions does limit what you can do and this is going to hamper the interest and usefulness to a fairly low level, IMO.  Fault analysis and root cause identification would make it better - but that is really impractical if not impossible.  Even researching other examples of the failure of the component under examination is going to demand a lot of time and effort - and then you would have to present that in the video.

If anything, I might suggest you save up a number of EEVsmoke candidates and then, when you have enough for a production, do a standard blog video with 'EEVsmoke' in the title.  You can then gauge reaction and interest as to whether there is value in taking it further - or dropping it altogether.

I think it's a bit early to make the call after just one video.
 

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 9219
  • Country: au
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #38 on: October 22, 2016, 07:02:28 am »
Having said that - I've just had a look at one of the 1500VA Line Interactive UPS's I picked up from the Jaycar warehouse clearance.

I checked out the SLA batteries in the remote hope they might have some life in them - but less than half a volt open circuit isn't too encouraging.  Connected a power supply - 12V limited to 100mA and the terminal voltage jumped instantly to 12V, then dropped back to under a volt in under 2 seconds when disconnected.

However, the first thing that greeted me when I opened the case was this:
(I've brightened up the image so you can see a bit more detail)


Don't think I'll be trying to resurrect the UPS ... but the transformer at the bottom of the case has me thinking....

It's big and very heavy.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 07:05:37 am by Brumby »
 

Offline JoeN

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 984
  • Country: us
  • We Buy Trannies By The Truckload
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #39 on: October 22, 2016, 07:25:59 am »
I liked the vid.  I don't see why it needs to be on a different channel.  It could easily be thrown in with the other vids on the main channel.  That's just one man's opinion.
Have You Been Triggered Today?
 

Online SeanB

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15091
  • Country: za
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #40 on: October 22, 2016, 11:16:56 am »
How about this, on a 2kVA UPS in scrapped last week. It still worked with the slightly charred board and the diode on each half of the output stage sitting on the base of the cabinet.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 11:19:02 am by SeanB »
 

Offline bitwelder

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 814
  • Country: fi
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #41 on: October 22, 2016, 11:39:09 am »
This new EEVsmoke section as it is on its first episode is very much 'meh' quality.
I don't find it particularly entertaining to look at pictures of failed components, especially if there is no analysis or explanation of why that it happened.
As somebody commented already, it could perhaps be working better e.g. on the forum, where other people can comment and post similar failures as what Dave showed, but as video... Meh!
 
The following users thanked this post: thm_w

Online Fungus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9973
  • Country: 00
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #42 on: October 22, 2016, 12:04:02 pm »
What's the fun in pictures of dead components? Where's the video.

 

Offline Towger

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1551
  • Country: ie
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2016, 01:07:24 pm »
What's the fun in pictures of dead components? Where's the video.
None.  To put bread on the table it needs to show exploding components and have catchy key words in the title. EEVSmoke means nothing to the great unwashed.   Along the line of Phontonic's or the Press channel (complete with cackling wife in the background).  Dave, I can send you some NOS of those X2 caps, complete with cracked cases. Just apply power, if 240v does not release the magic, I am sure you can rig up something with more umph.
 

Offline Cyberdragon

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2101
  • Country: us
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2016, 04:28:25 pm »
I don't think he's into blowing things up, he said he only wanted "naturally released smoke". Even if he was it might set off the fire alarm in the building.
*BZZZZZZAAAAAP*
Voltamort strikes again!
Explodingus - someone who frequently causes accidental explosions
 

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 15999
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #45 on: October 22, 2016, 07:24:41 pm »
Dave, I can send you some NOS of those X2 caps, complete with cracked cases. Just apply power, if 240v does not release the magic, I am sure you can rig up something with more umph.

I don't think he's into blowing things up, he said he only wanted "naturally released smoke". Even if he was it might set off the fire alarm in the building.
Maybe, but it'd be a good followup to EEVsmoke #1 demonstrating an actual failure of this type of X2 cap. Dissect a cracked one looking at the breached case and apply power to another showing the end result.
If there's not a vid of this already on the net, then it might be the first.  8)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Offline Bud

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3462
  • Country: ca
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #46 on: October 22, 2016, 07:41:40 pm »
Go for it, i will be watching this segment.
Facebook-free life and Rigol-free shack.
 

Offline XynxNet

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 183
  • Country: de
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #47 on: October 22, 2016, 07:54:01 pm »
Not my kind of segment without failure analysis.
But I don't have to watch it. So go for it. 45k views indicate a lot of people like it. :D
 

Offline gardner

  • Regular Contributor
  • *
  • Posts: 124
  • Country: ca
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #48 on: October 22, 2016, 08:15:40 pm »
My feeling is also "meh".  I think the main problem is working from photos.  Without being able to measure voltages and currents and so forth and do real analysis of a failed circuit, it just amounts to 15 minutes of "gosh, look at that!" which admittedly, Dave can pull off reasonably entertainingly.  But what you can get from a photo to really expound on usefully is just too limited.  I was probably about the 200th person to shout at Dave "that TO220 is not "emploded" -- you can see the front of the package laying on the board right in front of it!"  Working strictly from photos is just going to be more of the same.
--- Gardner
 

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3396
  • Country: gb
Re: NEW SEGMENT: EEVsmoke #1
« Reply #49 on: October 22, 2016, 09:36:17 pm »
I, for one, definitely want to see more.

Two motivations:

1) Seeing and understanding failure modes.

2) What bloke doesn't like seeing things go BOOM!

Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf