EEVblog Electronics Community Forum
EEVblog => EEVblog Specific => Topic started by: itdontgo on September 18, 2012, 05:47:21 am
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Dave was asking on Twitter whether people would pay for premium content. Initially I thought I would be then I thought about it and realised I would probably never bother as there are lots of free, easy things to entertain me for a few minutes without having to log in and pay... Also a two tier channel my go against what appeals to people about the blog. I like the presenter's honesty and the blog being presented as things happen. To keep some content away from me, a viewer, would almost feel exclusive.
But, there are some videos which could do with extra explanation and I would pay for a physical paper (or kindle although I haven't got one!) magazine with detailed information which on video would be boring. I would happily pay for an expensive magazine if it was a follow-up on what had already taken my fancy. Excellent toilet library material.
As your mail bag demonstrates the blog is an excellent potential sales channel and advertising medium as the main content is free resulting in over 500,000 views so far. If you want to maximise revenue sell EEVblog products and keep the thing drawing people in free... and keep it all in the open which is why I personally like the blog so much.
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And someone will upload it to youtube eventually. :P
Alexander.
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Dave was asking on Twitter whether people would pay for premium content. Initially I thought I would be then I thought about it and realised I would probably never bother as there are lots of free, easy things to entertain me for a few minutes without having to log in and pay... Also a two tier channel my go against what appeals to people about the blog. I like the presenter's honesty and the blog being presented as things happen. To keep some content away from me, a viewer, would almost feel exclusive.
So by my having taken this "free information" route, you are saying that I am now forever locked in to having to give away every piece of video content I ever create? And am doomed to having to make a living from other spin-off aspects?
What is the difference between say me writing a book and selling it, or producing say a DVD tutorial series and selling that?
BTW, I'm not really talking about a "premium content" or "two tier" subscription only channel etc. I'm talking about occasional one-off extra in-depth videos that I would never do otherwise on the blog. I'd be spending extra time and effort on this over and above my usual blog content, something I would not normally do unless there was a financial return in it for me. This is time I'd ordinarily spend enjoying life and my family, and I'd be a fool to do this extra work and simply give it away. Just like I would spend a year writing a book and giving that away. Or designing and making kits and selling them at cost.
What if I decided to spend 6 months compiling a 20 part in-depth PCB design or some other video tutorial, over and above my regular blog content. I'm expected to just give that away?
Dave.
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I would gladly pay for the PCB design DVDs or others like it that are a in depth tutorial style. I would not be so enthusiastic about a general "premium content" channel that is deemed exclusive for some unknown reason.
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I would gladly pay for the PCB design DVDs or others like it that are a in depth tutorial style. I would not be so enthusiastic about a general "premium content" channel that is deemed exclusive for some unknown reason.
+1
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What if I decided to spend 6 months compiling a 20 part in-depth PCB design or some other video tutorial, over and above my regular blog content. I'm expected to just give that away?
Dave.
Of course not. No one would expect you to give it away for free if there is a substantial investment of your time and effort. The worry is that you'll fall into the trap of spamming your paid stuff too much in the free content part.
There is a podcast called Coverville. The guy explains pop songs and their history and then goes plays another version of the song that chances are you havent heard. What happened a few years ago is he, just out of the blue, sold out to a radio station or something and started I think it was 1 in 4 episode ending up on paid i-tunes.
But what pissed me off was the regular rss reader would inform me of a new episode and it's title and then I'd hit a road block because it linked to the paid version and I can't run i-tunes on any of my gear. So I stopped listening completely.
It is good to see that you are gauging your audience, Dave. Just promise me you won't make me jump though too many bloody pay wall hoops just to see a video. Sorry, it's just the way I feel.
:)
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I would not be so enthusiastic about a general "premium content" channel that is deemed exclusive for some unknown reason.
I would not want such a channel either, especially one that was subscription based and I was forced into having to produce regular content for it.
I like the idea of producing extra non-blog content "whenever I get around to it" as a one-off, and then perhaps selling that though.
Dave.
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I would gladly pay for the PCB design DVDs or others like it that are a in depth tutorial style. I would not be so enthusiastic about a general "premium content" channel that is deemed exclusive for some unknown reason.
Yes, it will be a tool tbh. And you pay for your tools.
Or some extensive lessons (not tutorials) "OpAmps for A to Z". It couldn't be free of charge. Like you would pay a teacher...
@Dave. I don't know about the pricing though. Have you estimated the price per hour of video? To produce an hour of video you need x man hours (filming, editing, e.t.c.) + the price of the actual content + the losses of pirates ( :P ).
Alexander.
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I would not be so enthusiastic about a general "premium content" channel that is deemed exclusive for some unknown reason.
I would not want such a channel either, especially one that was subscription based and I was forced into having to produce regular content for it.
I like the idea of producing extra non-blog content "whenever I get around to it" as a one-off, and then perhaps selling that though.
Dave.
As a hobbyist with no formal training in electronics I'd gladly pay for any extensive content that will help me understand the basics better and solve some mysteries!
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IMHO a premium channel would only dilute the quality of the free one, because it's in the human psychic to want more and hold on to what it won, so the moment that premium channel would make money, you'd tent to want to increase the profit from that by moving more stuff from the free version to that and so on.
I'd have no problems with seeing some detailed videos, packed full of info, sold separately for a low fee... or for example you limiting the Youtube videos to 720p and offering 1080p videos as paid downloads (or free to donating members) or merchadising a set of DVDs with the more relevant youtube videos.
I'd also have no problem with doing let's say weekly live broadcast of 4 hours or something like that for donating members... as long as the fee is small enough it would work.
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Of course not. No one would expect you to give it away for free if there is a substantial investment of your time and effort. The worry is that you'll fall into the trap of spamming your paid stuff too much in the free content part.
Well yeah. It would depend on what it is though.
Lets say for example I have this USB PCB design tutorial video I've shot and did the usual say 30min blog content version, and then perhaps produce a much more in-depth 2 hour version of it as well that I might say promote at the start of the video as being available. e.g. "if you like this, try the extra extended 2 hour version for $2" or whatever??
But what pissed me off was the regular rss reader would inform me of a new episode and it's title and then I'd hit a road block because it linked to the paid version and I can't run i-tunes on any of my gear. So I stopped listening completely.
Having it on the RSS feed would be pretty dumb I think.
It is good to see that you are gauging your audience, Dave. Just promise me you won't make me jump though too many bloody pay wall hoops just to see a video. Sorry, it's just the way I feel.
I have no idea what the best way to sell video content is, or what platform to use.
Youtube has a content "shop" option that can handle Amazon or Google Playstore content.
Dave.
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Lets say for example I have this USB PCB design tutorial video I've shot and did the usual say 30min blog content version, and then perhaps produce a much more in-depth 2 hour version of it as well that I might say promote at the start of the video as being available. e.g. "if you like this, try the extra extended 2 hour version for $2" or whatever??
Sounds like a great idea! Have you thought about creating a physical DVD? If you held back some tear-downs and perhaps some extended-scene blog bits, you could add those onto the USB PCB Feature DVD as a bonus treat! Also why don't you do a Forrest Mims style engineers notebook; but in your unique Dave-CAD style?
hehe, anyway shouldn't all this be in the "The snake oil thread..."? :->
(edit: and you have to add a few outtakes too! ;-)
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Premium content? Doesn't hurt to try, very little setup costs so you can begin right away.
I think for income a continuous pitch towards donations will be better than make another tier. PBS and other public TV in the US have proven this model can work, and some forums pay for their ISP fees this way.
There are 5000 listed members right now, if everyone paid $1/mo that would net $60,000 a year as extra income. What can users get for $12? Some ideas, have too much gear left over after a review? You can raffled them off to donors. It needn't be full T&M gear, even parts: op amps, test leads, PICs, Atmels, eval. boards, etc.
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Dave,
I don't understand how you can say you wouldn't be compensated for the extra material. Wouldn't you be able to monetize the extra views you would get with additional premium content in the same fashion that you currently monetize your views? More views = more $$, right? Or am I missing something?
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My worry is this.
Dave is a motivated man.
I would quickly run out of money if he offered paid content, because he would produce content, and no doubt lots of it, and I would have no option but to purchase it due to the fact that he's awesome.
:(
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Personally I'd go more into physical domain - open source hardware, tutorials as books/booklets you can use without computer [in bathtube for example :D], selling stuff Dave no longer needs... This is what I would pay for.
On-line premium stuff, in my opinion would have to be very in depth, or on subjects that were not filmed by other blogers. There is allot of tutorials on simple stuff like op amps, 555 timer, eagle PCB and every one of those is for free.
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If it's got 80% more explosions, you can have my money.
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As a hobbyist with no formal training in electronics I'd gladly pay for any extensive content that will help me understand the basics better and solve some mysteries!
Ditto. I really enjoy your engaging communication style and I get a lot more out of some of your videos than I do from most books. I'd really like to pay for some in-depths DVDs or online seminars (not necessarily "live") that explore both basics and intermediate concepts. I really like the idea of the PCB design series too.
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I would pay for it if I "need" the content and if there wasn't another free alternative on Youtube. E.g. if I was to start working with a new microcontroller and there was a pay-video on exactly that topic. Probably I would not pay for watching e.g. an oscilloscope shootout even though it would certainly be a very interesting and entertaining video.
I think the dilemma is that it needs to be a niche topic such that there isn't a good alternative already on Youtube, but then you also get fewer users who are interested in the topic.
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As someone that has written multiple books : here is some info.
- writing a technical book is NOT something you do in 1 year unless you are a full time writer, and even then. The biggest obstacle are the graphics. 1/2 of the time is spent making the images, making the schematics, doing the boards etc. Screenshots are of course easy. It's the other stuff that gets time consuming.
Most of the books out there are 're-washes' of software revisions: 'Mastering Autocad 2013' is a re-wash of 'Mastering Autocad 2012'. there is 10% new content ( the new features ) and a few new screenshots and that's it. So yeah, they can crank those out. Not so when writing a totally new book on hardware. ( the original 'Mastering' book took long , the re-washes are short ). Don't fall in the trap of thinking : well these guys can keep up with every new version ... how hard can it be ?
As for paying for premium content. i'll do that , but the content will have to be 'premium', in the sense it takes me from zero to wizard without leaving out details.
Here is a sample of what i mean: i am learngin to use Inventor. I bought the 'mastering' book , spent 2 days reading the first few chapters and trying out some things with the software. After two days of frustration i managed drawing a rectangle. I still had not foun out how to move it , resize it or anything. Why ? because the book skips fundamental things. They show a screenshot before and after with some text in between. 'From the constraint menu select the parallel constraint item and place it on the rectangles top edge, then click on blabla. it takes 5 minutes to find out what the hell they are talking about. The software is a mash of icons. you have no cluse what the 3d menu icon looks like or even what the parallel constraint icon looks like. you sit there for 5 minutes mousing over all icons waiting for the balloonhelp to tell you if you got the right one or not... all becasue the book writers were too laze to place a screenshot while the menu tree is open so you can see where to go. Or simply place the two icons. find this picture (3d menu) then in the list that fly's out find that picture.
I took an inventor class yesterday . 3 hours , given by someone that knows the tool in and out and showed where the things are that you need. i'm up and running. As for the book ( it's a thick one, at least 3 inches ) . That's been put in the vertical filing system with the 'recycle' logo on it. Useless.
Now, driving a piece of software is one thing. Actually learnign the desing process is another. while you can learning to drive the software from a book, you need 'more' to actually learn the process. A book that simply describes all the buttons teaches you the program. A book that talks about how to do certain things and alternative methods is another story. That is 'premium' content. At least half of the course yesterday was showing how to do things ( not just software related ) and alternate ways. What technique to use in what circumstance. how do you center a rectangle ( place the center of the rectangle in the origin point ) . There is tons of ways to do that. But , when you cange the aspect of the rectangle ( widht/size) in many cases you will have to re-center. Here is the fail-proof technique : you draw a guide line from one corner to an opposite corner. so , no matter how this rectangle is resized later , that line is always diagonal. And then you click on the centerpoint of that line and link that centrpoint to the origin. I can now reshape that rechtagnel any which way i want. it will remain centered.
that is the stuff that is 'premium'. the book will show you how to select the rectangle and apply a numerical shift to it. if you were taught that you would simple repeat that operation over and over. you change the rectangle dimensions , select-all - calculate the shift and apply. Using the tools provided and some 'cleverness' you let the software do it for you. and that is what i am willing to pay for: learning the tricks to let the software do the work. I am inherently lazy. I use a computer because i can't be bothered fliping out a calculator and do the math. Computers are built to compute. Repetitive crap should be done by machine.
I have an idea , and want to visualize what it looks like and plug that into the machine. i'll drag and twist it a bit on screen until it looks like what i want and the machine should give me all the numbers i need. Actualy i don't even need to know the 'numbers' , all i want is to click a button so the cad program sends what is needed to a 5 axis cnc machine or waterjet and i can pick up the part a few hours later.
There is a lot of powerful software out there. just learning to click buttons is one thing , but it doesn't get you very far. everything will be hard and time consuming. Learning how to use the functions in the program to do something practical , that is the key. It's one thing to know that this icon means 'parallel constraint'. it's another thing learning when to use a parallel constraint and when not to use becasue there is an easier way.
3 cases:
- A book on PCB design that shows you what all the buttons are for in Eagle teaches you Eagle.. it doesn't teach you pcb design.... it only teaches clicking buttons. is someone tells you 'differential routing' you stare blank....
- A book that teaches you pcb design , does exactly that. Here is how you do differential traces. and then you go off and try to do this by hand in eagle... pretty useless. you are not making use of the tool. You have the knowledge , but don't know how to apply it. you go off and draw traces by hand that run parallel and you calculated by hand. when you find out the traces need moving or the layerstack changes , you heave a deep sigh and recalcualte everything by hand ... eventually you get pissed off at these diff traces becasue they are 'too cumbersome' and time consuming.
- A book that explanis differential routing and then shows you to use this in a real program by showing how to write a design rule for it by defining the layer stack , dielectric constants , the wanted impedance , the routing topology (source/target) so this diff pair appear automatically with correct width and gap and adapts itself if you move part around, the computer does the computing. Now THAT is -PREMIUM- content.
Why ?
Becasue it teaches you the theory , and then shows you how to use this , with the least effort possible , and highest return , in the software.
It shortens your learning curve and gets you consistent results in a faster way. Leaving the grunt work to the machine.
but that's just my 2 cents worth ...
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WARNING OFF TOPIC
@ free_electron Its not you, its the software. There are many converts to Solidworks from inventor at the users group I attend. The consensus is SW is infinitely more intuitive and more powerful. They would rather die than go back. I realize there are other reasons you may choose to stick with inventor but If you can, jump ship now.
Before I bought SW I had only 2D experience (many years ago) I asked for a test drive at the Var's facility. Studied the manual about 6 hours. Went to the Var and in 7 hours (no coaching) I had a fully functioning Rezeppa cv joint modeled and funtioning with all the mates to make it behave when dynamicaly moved. Yes it is that intuitive.
Autodesk is the top of the heap on desktop architectural related stuff but they will never catch up to SW on mechanical design. SW has too large of a head start, paying user base, and momentum for inventor to ever catch up.
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Also why don't you do a Forrest Mims style engineers notebook; but in your unique Dave-CAD style?
Because it's a massive amount of work.
Dave.
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I don't understand how you can say you wouldn't be compensated for the extra material. Wouldn't you be able to monetize the extra views you would get with additional premium content in the same fashion that you currently monetize your views? More views = more $$, right? Or am I missing something?
Yes, but the majority of my income comes from the direct advertising and sponsorship, which is the same regardless of how many views I get or how many videos I produce. That is why I am able to do this full time with only 7,000,000 views and 27,000 youtube subscribers. There are video bloggers with 10 times the audience and views I have that are not able to make it a full time living, because the youtube/adsense revenue is the only income stream they have.
I can't say how much I earn on for the direct videos views, but for example, if a video takes a day to produce, I'd only get paid for maybe an hours work at the view levels I currently have.
Dave.
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Personally I'd go more into physical domain - open source hardware, tutorials as books/booklets you can use without computer [in bathtube for example :D], selling stuff Dave no longer needs... This is what I would pay for.
On-line premium stuff, in my opinion would have to be very in depth, or on subjects that were not filmed by other blogers. There is allot of tutorials on simple stuff like op amps, 555 timer, eagle PCB and every one of those is for free.
Yes, I agree, that is a dilemma.
It may very well end up that I stick to hardware or something.
Books are not easy though, it can easily take >1year to produce a book.
Dave.
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The idea I'm essentially floating at the moment is to try out what I guess you could call "micro" premium content.
i.e just cheap ($2?) one-off extra extended videos (related or un-related to a normal blog video) that I can maybe spend a week producing for example, instead of my usual 1 day.
Unlike the huge time and risk commitment in writing a book or doing a hardware product.
It's something I can spend a week on, and if no one buys it, well ok, it's not much time wasted.
As opposed to spending a year or two writing a book and hoping people pay $50 for it at the end, or $100 for a hardware widget or whatever.
Let's say I produced one of these premium videos a month, and maybe a thousand people buy it for say $2, then that's quite a significant regular income stream without a huge time risk/lag and impact on my usual blog video production schedule.
Dave.
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Speaking as a relative novice, I personally would pay a fee like that for what would be considered more basic tutorial information. But I believe most of you audience is far more sophisticated in their understanding of the electronic arts. It is the EEVBlog after all.
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Let's say I produced one of these premium videos a month, and maybe a thousand people buy it for say $2, then that's quite a significant regular income stream without a huge time risk/lag and impact on my usual blog video production schedule.
What about only subscribers having access to the premium content? A subscriber being someone who makes a monthly contribution of $2.00 minumum.
Dave.
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What about only subscribers having access to the premium content? A subscriber being someone who makes a monthly contribution of $2.00 minumum.
A few problems with that:
1) It forces me to have to produce regular premium content, rather than just "it gets done when it gets done". That could impact time resources to do the regular blog.
2) I think it could lead to an "us and them" mentality between viewers who subscribe and those who don't. Those that don't might think they are missing out, and are being forced into paying to "catch up with the Jones's" so the speak.
3) As someone mentioned, people might start to think that I'm "holding back" on regular blogs to have that regular premium content.
Dave.
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Ok, bring em on! I will gladly pay $2.00 a pop.
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Dave,
I'd love to see some 2-3hr training style videos. I am a tech always trying to sit with the EE's and would vastly benefit from them. $2-6 sounds palatable.
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To echo the comments above; To produce a decent book takes a long time. Consider how many decades it is taking 2 experienced authors just to update The Art of Electronics! Sure, to make a decent video takes a good amount of time and skill, even off-the-cuff ones! But the editing, art work and so on for a few pages can take weeks. Even the far from professional blog items I write from time to time can take 12 hours. When I do "proper" documentation you can double that. That sort of investment in a niche subject like electronics is unlikely to yield a good dividend.
On the matter of people perceiving that you are holding back; Personally, I don't see that as a problem. some of the podcasts I listen to for my other hobbies have a premium subscriber option, whereby you pay a modest fee per month and get the new content a fortnight or so early, plus access to "retired" content. $2 is comfortably in the "hell yeah, why not?" category.
I would love to see someone do a decent version of the MIT lectures. Just to show them how it should be done. The work involved would be huge though!
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Premium Content is a misnomer. I'd suggest producing items that you can promote through your own channel, since you have a large audience, many of whom would be customers. Product can be manyfold, from books and papers, video, designs, consultancy, projects etc. Of course you will need to do the numbers to see if this is a viable growth option. Whatever happens you can't let the revenue stream stagnate.
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Premium Content is a misnomer. I'd suggest producing items that you can promote through your own channel, since you have a large audience, many of whom would be customers. Product can be manyfold, from books and papers, video, designs, consultancy, projects etc.
That's essentially what I had in mind. One-off videos (along with other stuff like projects etc)
Because I'm halfway decent a video stuff these days and have it pretty much down pat. I can produce decent quality content with reasonable efficiency.
I've given up the consultancy gig now.
Dave.
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That's essentially what I had in mind. One-off videos (along with other stuff like projects etc)
Because I'm halfway decent a video stuff these days and have it pretty much down pat. I can produce decent quality content with reasonable efficiency.
I've given up the consultancy gig now.
Dave.
Sounds ideal. You have a video workflow in place that allows you to produce them effectively. You can work out the demographics of your audience to decide which items would be the most popular. I guess if you work on a design you can also make use of it (eg uCurrent etc) in regular blogs as a means of promoting it, and create an in-depth video about it for interested people to buy over the numerous distribution channels.
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I don't understand how you can say you wouldn't be compensated for the extra material. Wouldn't you be able to monetize the extra views you would get with additional premium content in the same fashion that you currently monetize your views? More views = more $$, right? Or am I missing something?
Yes, but the majority of my income comes from the direct advertising and sponsorship, which is the same regardless of how many views I get or how many videos I produce. That is why I am able to do this full time with only 7,000,000 views and 27,000 youtube subscribers. There are video bloggers with 10 times the audience and views I have that are not able to make it a full time living, because the youtube/adsense revenue is the only income stream they have.
I can't say how much I earn on for the direct videos views, but for example, if a video takes a day to produce, I'd only get paid for maybe an hours work at the view levels I currently have.
Dave.
OK, I didn't realize it was a diminishing returns kind of model. Unless you were able to have companies directly sponsor individual projects?
I wouldn't have a problem paying, but I think your concern about fragmenting your viewers in a subscription-based model is real. Whatever you decide to do, I hope you make a killing!
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What about a PDF bi-annual EEVBlog magazine?, any EEVBlog members could contribute articles, and the picked ones get compiled, it would be aimed at all levels, (ie. something for everyone) You could add sponsor adverts, as well as links to useful stuff.
I'd be more inclined to pay $2 for a good e-zine than a video.
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What about a PDF bi-annual EEVBlog magazine?, any EEVBlog members could contribute articles, and the picked ones get compiled, it would be aimed at all levels, (ie. something for everyone) You could add sponsor adverts, as well as links to useful stuff.
I've had a novel idea in this space for quite some time now, but it would take a lot of work to get off the ground (doesn't everything?).
Dave.
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Dave , 1st off you would have to prefect cloning .
I think many would be bummed , if we lost this to that , I would like both and have to get cloned also :)
For me it would depend on the content , as a relatively new HAM RADIO [ about 5-6 yrs ] operator I am starving for sources to learn from a repair / theory / building .
And would gladly pay for some content that would fit my interests , dang that reminds me , to send in another donation .
Hay there we go , enough donations and its all here :)
Thanks again Dave
John
KD0CAC
73
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I will add, as a guy who has to write the odd bit of technical fiction/ manuals and training, as you prefer. A 5 page manual ( that is generally 2 pages of writing and 3 pages of diagrams/picture) can take a week or more to get from the first rough outline to a finished item marked V1, and dome go to a v3 step.
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A PDF magazine sounds like a lot of admin work. They can look very amateurish unless you get some skilled designers in, which of course cost $$$.Most fanzine kinda things still look like refugees from the 1980 photocopier era. The Amp Hour is probably the 21st Century equivalent of a magazine now.
One of my other hobbies is model making. This has moved on a long way from the Airfix Spitfire which many of the over-30s from the UK and around the colonies may remember. Modern CAD and casting technologies have meant that individuals and small companies can make custom short runs of specialist models, in a similar way to which Dave makes the uCurrent. The way they are funded is similar to Kickstarter, but without the overheads. Let me give you an example;
Say a model maker of experience and good reputation comes up with an idea and a prototype. He then says "I need money to fund the development of this" and a good number of people show interest. He then invites (say) 100 under-writers to submit $50. Not achieving the 100 doesn't stop it happening, it just means it goes more slowly. Yes, it obligates you to do work, but I'm afraid that is the nature of earning a living. You get money up front (which is always a good motivation for getting the product done!) and you generate a buzz around your product. Not every project warrants something the scale or formality of Kickstarter.
With the uSupply, I think a lot of backers would be happy with a couple of unpopulated early Rev PCBs for their $50. With the understanding that they have no formal support other than other forum users. Once phase 1 is completed, there is the option of phase 2 which might perhaps be $100 and be a populated but un-housed board with simple functional software. This gets boards out there and tested, with software being developed and debugged. It also generates cash flow.
(Figures are of course ball-park)
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There's a good reason why magazine publishing companies are going out of business.
I'd advise against joining that bandwagon.
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So by my having taken this "free information" route, you are saying that I am now forever locked in to having to give away every piece of video content I ever create? And am doomed to having to make a living from other spin-off aspects?
No, you are not locked in -- you can always do what you described bellow:
BTW, I'm not really talking about a "premium content" or "two tier" subscription only channel etc. I'm talking about occasional one-off extra in-depth videos that I would never do otherwise on the blog. I'd be spending extra time and effort on this over and above my usual blog content, something I would not normally do unless there was a financial return in it for me.
I think this might be a good way to go. Several bloggers do the same thing:
- occasional in-depth member only posts / videos
- early access (or discounts) to books, seminars, and products
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Say a model maker of experience and good reputation comes up with an idea and a prototype. He then says "I need money to fund the development of this" and a good number of people show interest. He then invites (say) 100 under-writers to submit $50. Not achieving the 100 doesn't stop it happening, it just means it goes more slowly. Yes, it obligates you to do work, but I'm afraid that is the nature of earning a living. You get money up front (which is always a good motivation for getting the product done!) and you generate a buzz around your product. Not every project warrants something the scale or formality of Kickstarter.
With the uSupply, I think a lot of backers would be happy with a couple of unpopulated early Rev PCBs for their $50. With the understanding that they have no formal support other than other forum users. Once phase 1 is completed, there is the option of phase 2 which might perhaps be $100 and be a populated but un-housed board with simple functional software. This gets boards out there and tested, with software being developed and debugged. It also generates cash flow.
Although I plan on giving Pozzible a try for the uSupply, it's certainly not something I need to do, I'm taking the crown funding route for curiosity sake.
I could easily simply put it on my store, advertise it, and take pre-orders. Or even do what I've always done with my kits, simply use my own money up-front and make an affordable (say <$5K) small-ish first run like 100 or so, and then boot-strap from there. I've always been ok with that sort of risk because I've always had an avenue to advertise my kits through a hobby magazine, my website, and various forums etc. It's even less risk now that I have a sizeable established audience
I plan on maybe doing a panels worth first, to know I have everything down pat before putting it up for crowd funding though. I don't like the idea of getting the money and then figuring out how to manufacture the thing. The plan would be, get it right up front, get the crowd fund money, and then push the production button.
Dave.
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Kickstarter isn't always about hardware, sometimes it's about funding comics, films, podcasts and maybe even the EEVblog, anyway, in the end they make off
with 9% of the cash and it's just a one time lump sum - not good.
As a alternative, PBS (public broadcasting station) supplements funding with donation drives every few months. It might be as simple as
reminding (harassing >:() folks at the start and end of each video that their weekly fix is predominately at the benevolence of a lone Aussie bloke.
I'm all for Open Source Hardware/Software/Content but still struggle with how always giving stuff away helps puts food on the table
and pays the monthly bills, IMO sometimes it still requires a day job to fund the community projects.
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Hardware is where it at! I am still waiting for the uSupply. I really want one and want to buy it now in support of you and the EEVBlog. Build it, video it , plug the hell out of it every video. Crowdfunding will work for you, I'll prepay now if nessesary.
What if I decided to spend 6 months compiling a 20 part in-depth PCB design or some other video tutorial, over and above my regular blog content. I'm expected to just give that away?
Dave.
No! Sell that on DVD! I'd buy that for $20. That is a great idea, but finish the hardware first! 8)
Chris
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You don't get rich by publishing a technical book. The only reason I was able to do mine was that I had a very sympathetic manager at IBM.
There are a lot of technical topics where a well-thought-out tutorial is well worth the time it takes, as well as the money.
John Cleese made a mint doing corporate training videos, because he could make them fun. (Quite an accomplishment, that!)
You might want to think about that sort of stuff--a lot of the grass-roots folks are fans of yours, so a series of training videos (even on Altium if you can keep from bursting out laughing) might be the ticket. Engineering managers who have a bunch of folks to bring up to speed on some new thing ought to be willing to pay a fair amount for decent material.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
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I'm not against premium content at all but there is an inherent risk, if people pay then they expect far too much. You spoke before on your blog about people expecting certain things from your videos and moaning about the fact that you were not covering the exact topics they had an interest in, introducing a pay model will unfortunately increase this (wrong) sense of entitlement a hundred fold.
Have you thought about trying to herd your "average" youtube viewer here to this site where you get a bigger cut of the advertising revenue? You could put up a teaser video out on your youtube channel but cut some segments so that if they want to view the whole thing they have to come here. I've seen others do it but saying that they were not YT partners and there maybe a clause in your partnership agreement forbidding this (also video hosting might be an issue).
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I'm not against premium content at all but there is an inherent risk, if people pay then they expect far too much. You spoke before on your blog about people expecting certain things from your videos and moaning about the fact that you were not covering the exact topics they had an interest in, introducing a pay model will unfortunately increase this (wrong) sense of entitlement a hundred fold.
That is why I wouldn't do a subscription based model, people would expect too much, and expect it consistently.
I much prefer the one-off type thing.
e.g.
"Here is a one-off video or series on X. Here is a sample so you know what you are getting. I you don't like the whole thing you paid a few bucks for, simply chose not to buy my content again."
Have you thought about trying to herd your "average" youtube viewer here to this site where you get a bigger cut of the advertising revenue? You could put up a teaser video out on your youtube channel but cut some segments so that if they want to view the whole thing they have to come here. I've seen others do it but saying that they were not YT partners and there maybe a clause in your partnership agreement forbidding this (also video hosting might be an issue).
More views on eevblog.com does not translate directly into more advertising $. The advertisers pay a fixed amount per month.
There is nothing in the Youtube clause that stops me doing that.
I like to keep all my content on Youtube because:
a) It helps consolidate the stats, and makes me, the channel and the "brand" look more impressive in terms of views.
b) Youtube is the worlds 2nd biggest search engine, and the more I upload the better my channel gets ranked. The snowball effect.
c) video hosting is a PITA, and is actually very expensive if you want to do it right. People keep saying "just throw it on amazon S3 or whatever". They just don't understand the bandwidths involved.
There are a few companies that will host subscription and/or pay-per-view video, but I'm simply unsure which model I would chose if I were to go that route.
Dave.
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(http://www.uwkcblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/empty-pockets.gif)
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YLFtBwy4aIU/TnajOe9wxnI/AAAAAAAAKdo/GNSgCcmS6WU/s1600/pirate63.gif)
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I can't say how much I earn on for the direct videos views, but for example, if a video takes a day to produce, I'd only get paid for maybe an hours work at the view levels I currently have.
some estimates: http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/EEVblog/ (http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/EEVblog/)
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some estimates: http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/EEVblog/ (http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/EEVblog/)
10 million views in another 150 days, can't wait!
BTW, I can tell you that that their upper estimate is way over-estimated.
Dave.
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+1. I'd happily pay ~ 2€ for in depth videos.
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Dave, linear projection........ Probably only 50% too optimistic, but you may be lucky.
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I would not be so enthusiastic about a general "premium content" channel that is deemed exclusive for some unknown reason.
I would not want such a channel either, especially one that was subscription based and I was forced into having to produce regular content for it.
I like the idea of producing extra non-blog content "whenever I get around to it" as a one-off, and then perhaps selling that though.
Dave.
As a hobbyist with no formal training in electronics I'd gladly pay for any extensive content that will help me understand the basics better and solve some mysteries!
I agree. Though I am not a complete beginner, there are still tons of things that I plainly just don't understand about electronics.
I would totally be down for a lesson type series. You would pay for a book to learn something, right? So why not a video?
Of course this is my opinion, but I think these videos would be of most value to those who are trying to learn fundamentals. Atleast, those are the ones that are probably going to get the most attention, and therefore $$$.
Some ideas off the top of my head-
-BJT/FET amplifiers
-Op-amps
-TTL Logic
-PCB Layout
I'd probably be willing to pay $20 for a good in-depth explanation of these topics.
I love EEVBlog, but yes you are right, there's only so much you can expect out of a free video series. Though Dave does make a living off of it, you can't possibly expect him to put out world class material free of charge. That's just not fair!
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I would say enough talking about it, just give it a try. I would pay $ 2 for the right subject and if it is entertaining.
The only way to see if this concept would work is to give it a try, what do you have to loose (besides time)?
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I would say enough talking about it, just give it a try. I would pay $ 2 for the right subject and if it is entertaining.
The only way to see if this concept would work is to give it a try, what do you have to loose (besides time)?
(and money) ;D
But I agree. Just give it a shot. Perhaps a nice detailed explanation of something fundamental yet mysterious.
I'd expect a good reaction to it. Probably would make some good money off of it, provided it's good.
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Have you considered having some type of 'big picture' plan?
For instance, you could sell premium tutorials that can be combined into a course. You edit all the tutorials into a course you sell.
Or for hardware, you sell a baseboard that has a processor, display, etc. and then plug-in modules that add functionality. There are several ways they could interconnect and use the baseboard for the HMI.
Anyway, just a thought.
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I would happily pay money for any content about pcb design and layout. Particularly about how best to figure out part placement for the best layout and also routing and placement when you have specific goals in mind for the design. Maybe you should start a poll or something for what people want to see.
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+1 for paid one-off in-depth design videos!
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Dave,
You have to ask yourself, who is your audience and what will they pay for? I know, you just tried to ask us - good start. Problem is, you have guys here who range from me (just bought a Tek 2225 based on your opinion) who know next to nothing, up to folks with some serious chops. I for one would pay (preferably through paypal) for some serious instruction on how to go from an Elenco power supply to a moderate-sized project with some exposure to new basics. The next person wouldn't necessarily pay for that.
Your sustainable competitive advantage ( business school, sorry) is your video personality and your existing website members. I'd whiteboard half a dozen or a dozen video projects you'd be willing to do for a fee, and solicit feedback here. As one of my best professors said repeatedly - "Do it! Now! Now! Now! (He was an excellent teacher and motivator! :D )
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I did have a big hope for the "PCB First Impressions series"
That was for me a big disappointment. For me it seemed to stop at the same time the "sponsor" / partner deal with Diptrase got in place. I am sure that was not the case but i did sit back with that feeling.
So we still need a somewhat more thorough examination and perhaps a selection of the best open / free PCB software.
How many dollars do we need to gather for that you would make such a series to release on YouTube ?
I can only speak for myself but it is something that I would very much like to pay money for. My feeling is that it not will take a long time to gather enough money.
But for me it is important that it is being released for all and not just "Premium members"
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I did have a big hope for the "PCB First Impressions series"
That was for me a big disappointment. For me it seemed to stop at the same time the "sponsor" / partner deal with Diptrase got in place. I am sure that was not the case but i did sit back with that feeling.
That had absolutely nothing to do with it.
BTW, I've made precisely ZIP from adding that up there.
So we still need a somewhat more thorough examination and perhaps a selection of the best open / free PCB software.
How many dollars do we need to gather for that you would make such a series to release on YouTube ?
I can only speak for myself but it is something that I would very much like to pay money for. My feeling is that it not will take a long time to gather enough money.
The issue is not money, it's time. Doing such a thing takes a massive amount of time. I would have to stop all content on the blog (and other projects and things) for quite some time in order to get it done.
The "first look" videos were easy, because they literally were a one-take, no-edit "first look". Anything more than that and the complexity of producing it goes up several orders of magnitude.
Dave.
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Well perhaps you wouldn't have to stop all. Perhaps not as frequent or as in depth. But I think professional-level tutorials would bring EEVBlog to another level.
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I am not quite sure if I would pay for content like that. Generally I find that internet content that I have purchased didn't help me much. I had to continue to find free information to solve my problem. But I might give it a try. Your videos are somewhat different.
I don't know how you would choose to distribute "Premium Content", but one requirement for me to consider paying would be that I can download the video in a DRM free way.
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It is hard to release Premium Content I think, especially in the internet age because there is SO MUCH information on the internet, it's ridiculous. To be blatantly honest, you could learn the A-Zs of electronics entirely off the internet. The information is all there! It's just not compiled nicely. That's the problem. Premium Content has to be reeaallly good quality because the fact is: I could find all this information for free somewhere else! The difference is: Premium Content would organize all of this information into an easy to understand "curriculum".
It's hard to justify buying it since you could potentially find the information for free. However, if it is done well enough, people will appreciate the service because it will make their lives easier. Less painstaking Google searching etc. etc.
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Personally I'd go more into physical domain - open source hardware, tutorials as books/booklets you can use without computer [in bathtube for example :D], selling stuff Dave no longer needs... This is what I would pay for.
On-line premium stuff, in my opinion would have to be very in depth, or on subjects that were not filmed by other blogers. There is allot of tutorials on simple stuff like op amps, 555 timer, eagle PCB and every one of those is for free.
--edit--
Books are not easy though, it can easily take >1year to produce a book.
I like both alana's idea and jucole's forest mim's idea even though they are in slight contradiction. One easy option to consider is the approach taken by MR.pete222 or Tubalcain as he is known on youboob. He simply amalgamates his video's on physical media and sells those, although he doesn't know how to send stuff outside of the U.S.! One important difference is that he is a veteran shops teacher and it shows, he has been instructing inbred morons how to build stuff and not break the machine since the time of the dinosaurs ;D That kind of instructive content has a much longer lifetime and greater value ( as others have indicated here) versus rants and other typical youtube fare.
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IMO those wanting 'premium' content would surely be better off subscribing to journals from the IET or IEEE, or even just reading the free journals and design notes from almost all semiconductor manufacturers.
I do not really see the point in Dave having to do more work for those who are too lazy to use the wealth of information already printed, unless Dave actually wanted to publish premium content for his own reasons. A one stop shop is undoubtedly going to miss some information out or dilute it, or take a lifetime to cover every topic.
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I do not really see the point in Dave having to do more work for those who are too lazy to use the wealth of information already printed, unless Dave actually wanted to publish premium content for his own reasons.
I think Dave asked, because he wants to make some money from premium content. Nothing wrong with that. Only that in these times it won't take an hour until the premium content, if in electronic form, would be ripped-off and put on a torrent. And that would be it with making money.
If you read some past discussions, you will see that even Dave's forum has some people heavily advocating stealing / "pirating" content, and I don't think there will be any mercy with Dave's content.
So, premium content in electronic form would be a difficult thing if Dave wants to make money from it. Writing a book and distributing only paper copies has a slightly larger chance of surviving unpirated for some time. But eventually someone will run it through a scanner. And, as already discussed, writing a book is a time-consuming task, and even without it being pirated doesn't pay off.
Maybe Dave giving courses or doing some lectures for a fee, arranging fan meet and greats for a fee, anything that requires his presence would be a better way to deliver premium content.
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Maybe Dave giving courses or doing some lectures for a fee, arranging fan meet and greats for a fee, anything that requires his presence would be a better way to deliver premium content.
I think the key there is that it would be for 'fans'. I would think that any lectures would pose problems in terms of target audience. Anyone already serious in electronics would most likely self learn or get a proper outfit in and only go to the lectures for entertainment unless the lecture went deeply technical, yet beginners are going to get lost after 15 minutes unless the lecture is aimed at them.
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Hi Dave.
Rather than have premium paid for content what about having an EEV blog club or society with an annual membership fee, something that I would find easier to do than pay on an add hoc basis.
With a club or society format you could make membership more attractive with tee shirts and members cards and discounts on merchandise etc, and have the access to the extra content that you are proposing.
I have looked at the flatter button, not quite sure how it works but I have the idea that it takes a sum of money from me and then trickles it in very small amounts to any web site that I go to which has a flatter button, quite frankly I would rather send you some money direct and know that you have and not leave money in some bother bank account to gather interest for god knows who.
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Hi Dave.
Rather than have premium paid for content what about having an EEV blog club or society with an annual membership fee, something that I would find easier to do than pay on an add hoc basis.
With a club or society format you could make membership more attractive with tee shirts and members cards and discounts on merchandise etc, and have the access to the extra content that you are proposing.
Only problem with that is that it's yet another thing that needs to be managed etc.
If there is an online thing that can take care of it all for me, then I'm open to suggestions.
I have looked at the flatter button, not quite sure how it works but I have the idea that it takes a sum of money from me and then trickles it in very small amounts to any web site that I go to which has a flatter button, quite frankly I would rather send you some money direct and know that you have and not leave money in some bother bank account to gather interest for god knows who.
I put the Flattr button there to because a few people asked it.
Have still yet to see a cent from that actually end up in my account.
I prefer PayPal donations, but of course the evil PayPal empire take a big chunk of it, but at least almost everyone has PayPal.
Dave.
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PayPal would be a necessary evil for premium content. Very hard to run a one man band If you are chasing work you are not doing what you already have on the books and when you have done that work you are chasing payment, its a vicious circle, then there is all the book work for the government which if you rely on the accountant doing for you costs a bomb and is never done on time so collects penalty charges. Been there done that.
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I have no idea what the best way to sell video content is, or what platform to use.
Youtube has a content "shop" option that can handle Amazon or Google Playstore content.
Dave.
Might want to look at some of the paid video tutor sites for ideas. I don't know of any that do electronics right now, you could be the pioneer of the industry!
Start a site yourself and maybe get others to contribute with in depth topics and leave the EEVblog for the 1 hour topics.
I would pay for in-depth content on topics like RF receivers or transmitters, FPGA , board layout. Some people have issues with using paypal, I don't, and there are other payment processing sites that may be more friendly to international viewers.
Some of the video tutorial sites I have used:
http://www.lynda.com/ (http://www.lynda.com/)
http://www.digitaltutors.com (http://www.digitaltutors.com)
Digital tutors started as a pay per tutorial site and then progressed to a monthly fee, full access site.
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I do not really see the point in Dave having to do more work for those who are too lazy to use the wealth of information already printed, unless Dave actually wanted to publish premium content for his own reasons.
So, premium content in electronic form would be a difficult thing if Dave wants to make money from it. Writing a book and distributing only paper copies has a slightly larger chance of surviving unpirated for some time. But eventually someone will run it through a scanner. And, as already discussed, writing a book is a time-consuming task, and even without it being pirated doesn't pay off.
I don't agree with that at all. It is true that people will download and copy videos and just about anything else that can be copied, but that doesn't mean you still can't make money. The part of the equation that is being left out is the people that really like the content. The old shareware software was a good example of this. Shareware started off as more of a donation ware , send what you can or think it is worth, maybe Dave would consider that option as well. To prove that he does have people who value the content enough to spend money look at what people send in the mailbag segments. Sending stuff international isn't cheap and people willing to do things like that are more common than most think.
If the content is good and people like it, they will contribute to keep it going. It is when the content isn't worth the money when charge for content fails.
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IMO those wanting 'premium' content would surely be better off subscribing to journals from the IET or IEEE, or even just reading the free journals and design notes from almost all semiconductor manufacturers.
I do not really see the point in Dave having to do more work for those who are too lazy to use the wealth of information already printed, unless Dave actually wanted to publish premium content for his own reasons. A one stop shop is undoubtedly going to miss some information out or dilute it, or take a lifetime to cover every topic.
The difference in using journals or IEEE site is it is boring , it doesn't hold my interest very long. There are a lot of people on youtube about electronics , but Dave brings a little entertainment and style that is unique and that is the reason I and many others watch the videos. It is like the difference in good and bad teachers, it is the same material but with a good teacher students understand the material.
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Difficult to say, but depend on the subject, need and pricing, most likely not: too little time chasing after too many good content. Even among the good free video, some have to be skipped, and many queueing up.
I think the demand for your power supply is quite high, and you can have different type of pricing for that, and package some with your T-shirt, etc
One other way is you can be a web-front for many embedded engineers in your forum to sell their gears, and you could take a cut for providing the reach.
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There are a few companies that will host subscription and/or pay-per-view video, but I'm simply unsure which model I would chose if I were to go that route.
I think it's very hard to find something with the same penetration as youtube; if you write some reference book maybe you can do it with kindle store but for video I don't know. Maybe some itunes/android app?
One unusual way out of this is just donations toward a specific project. This will also cap the income and has some other problems but will solve both the piracy and the distribution issue.
Also one idea, although not completely on Dave's street (but touching what was already mentioned in this thread), would be to publish some work in such a form that can be bought by companies, like a reference book. Prices can be in triple digit range and if people like it and need it they'll find a way to make their employer pay for it.
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Also one idea, although not completely on Dave's street (but touching what was already mentioned in this thread), would be to publish some work in such a form that can be bought by companies, like a reference book. Prices can be in triple digit range and if people like it and need it they'll find a way to make their employer pay for it.
I only know of two variants that seem to occasionally work.
1) You call yourself something like The Australian Think Tank Institute for Strategic Studies, Business Analysis, Research and Consulting. Or some equally pompous name. Then you write reports, targeting managers. You give the reports titles like Opportunities and Challenges in the Global Power Supply Market Space until the Year 2020 or Business Transformation in the Light of New Sourcing.
Then you look for gullible managers, those who have no clue how they should do their job, and sell them that junk at upper four digit USD cost.
2) You give courses or lectures. And part of selling these courses is exclusive course material for the participants only, which is include in the cost of the courses. Then you ask for lower four digits USD / day + expenses. Max. 20 persons/course. Three days/course minimum, max. 5 days/course. Only first class travel, first class accommodation.
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Not read the entire thread but I'll through my vote in for some in-depth tutorial / mini courses e.t.c. If any tutorial / course covers several videos it would be good to be able to buy them separately. Sometimes if a subjects has section x, y and z you may only be interested in y or already have a good grounding in the prerequisite of x. Also it allow people to taste test a tutorial series rather than but the entire series of 10.
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Also as others have mentioned there is always the corprate short course route. Like Scott Meyers, he started of teaching C++ before the book(s).
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some estimates: http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/EEVblog/ (http://socialblade.com/youtube/user/EEVblog/)
10 million views in another 150 days, can't wait!
BTW, I can tell you that that their upper estimate is way over-estimated.
You have made it! On 4 February 2013 which was in another 135 days only :)
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Dave was asking on Twitter whether people would pay for premium content. Initially I thought I would be then I thought about it and realised I would probably never bother as there are lots of free, easy things to entertain me for a few minutes without having to log in and pay... Also a two tier channel my go against what appeals to people about the blog. I like the presenter's honesty and the blog being presented as things happen. To keep some content away from me, a viewer, would almost feel exclusive.
So by my having taken this "free information" route, you are saying that I am now forever locked in to having to give away every piece of video content I ever create? And am doomed to having to make a living from other spin-off aspects?
What is the difference between say me writing a book and selling it, or producing say a DVD tutorial series and selling that?
BTW, I'm not really talking about a "premium content" or "two tier" subscription only channel etc. I'm talking about occasional one-off extra in-depth videos that I would never do otherwise on the blog. I'd be spending extra time and effort on this over and above my usual blog content, something I would not normally do unless there was a financial return in it for me. This is time I'd ordinarily spend enjoying life and my family, and I'd be a fool to do this extra work and simply give it away. Just like I would spend a year writing a book and giving that away. Or designing and making kits and selling them at cost.
What if I decided to spend 6 months compiling a 20 part in-depth PCB design or some other video tutorial, over and above my regular blog content. I'm expected to just give that away?
Dave.
I would pay for premium content above and beyond what is normally posted on the blog. This I think is my first post here but I happen to know a thing or two about forums since I owned and ran one as my full time job for almost 10 years. I had a membership/loyalty program which offered "member status" ie. nothing tangible, for $20US a year. For $50/year you got Gold Status, ie. also nothing but a gold star. Let me just say that my PayPal account was never empty for long, I made over $50K a year with that program alone, pure cashflow porn. It was strictly voluntary but people paid anyway and were happy to do so. Ran it for years and the only complaints I got were when people had trouble paying with PayPal. Word of advice, maybe offer a one-time, limited time "gift" for early signups but dont attempt anything recurring like a membership card or package. It's a waste of time and money. People want flare. Give them that and they will be very happy.
I lied just now, membership allowed posting classified ads free of charge which was very popular. I would think that you could run a classifieds system on this site as well no problem, test gear, parts, you name it. I'm always on ebay buying stuff, I could be on eevblog instead. Because it was member posting only, fraud didn't exist.
Anyway, offer something simple and people will support you, I will. Just don't try to get fancy. I'll point you to my (former) forum out of band if you like.
Your videos allow me to learn a digestible chunk of knowledge which I can turn around and immediately use in my designs. It saves me weeks of frustrating hair pulling and thousands of dollars in engineering consultation fees. I've been able to whack together a whole bunch of snazzy wireless home automation gadget prototypes, learn schematic and pcb design and equip my home lab from essentially nothing in only a couple of months. I've already designed 2 products which I hope to get funding to complete and mass manufacture and I just finished the PCB layout of a functional prototype of a 3rd.
All the engineers in your group probably don't derive the same benefits that beginner hackers like I do. You feed my brain and it gives me ideas and makes me come up with cool things I want to build and sell and I can't believe people get paid to do this for a living, so how much is that worth?
Give me a drop dead easy and impulsive (very important) way to contribute and I will without hesitation. See above. The number one rule of making money online (from my experience) is don't get in the way of people giving you money.
Keep up the great work and more building block tutorials please. There are no bite-sized electronics tutorials sites out there like there are for software. I'd pay an annual subscription for access to a library of tutorial videos.