Pro Tip: DIY Hand Sanitiser

[Stray Electron]

I'm wondering if they should bring in the military to set up scores of temporary hospitals rather than crashing the entire economy in a likely futile attempt to stem the spread.

   Seriously??  You still don't get it do you?  This is an epidemic. No one can stop it now. Allowing people to circuit WILL make things worse and extremely rapidly. The military can't change that.  The government has the choice to stop the economy now and minimize the number of infected or do nothing and everyone will become infected immediately and then the economy will stop on it's own and tens or hundreds of millions will die due to an overloaded medical system.  If they can minimize the spread (even if it stops the economy), then the medical systems can hopefully deal with that and the number of infected and dead will be minimized and therefore the economy will have the chance to recover.

   We're at the triage stage but at a national level. The government has to make choices about what industries (cruise lines, theme parks, bars, restaurants) to sacrifice so that this country and our society survives in the best possible condition and with as many living survivors as possible. Every county out there is going through the same process and as far as I know ALL of them have made the same choice to close every possible high density gathering to minimize the rate at which this infection is spreading and to maximize their citizens chances of survival.

[james_s]

   Seriously??  You still don't get it do you?  This is an epidemic. No one can stop it now. Allowing people to circuit WILL make things worse and extremely rapidly. The military can't change that. 

No, I really don't, not the level of panic that is occurring and the only thing I fear right now is the panic. At this point I hear Chicken Little screaming that the sky is falling and this kind of mass hysteria risks very serious consequences. If the economy collapses few are going to have the luxury of quarantine and in the USA people who are unemployed and don't have money can't get medical care outside of a hospital emergency room which can't refuse treatment but is the most expensive treatment available and they will be stuck with the bill. If we end up with another great depression nobody is going to care about a virus, they'll be risking everything to find any job they can get to put food on the table.

By military I don't mean armed soldiers coming in to do battle, I mean military doctors, nurses, technicians, hospital staff, logistics, engineering, etc. Get a load of temporary hospitals going just as would be done during a war to mitigate the overload to the medical system. The military is a huge reserve of manpower and equipment that our tax dollars are already paying for.

[EEVblog]

The hand sanitizer I have says the active ingredient is ethyl alcohol, you can buy that stuff (mixed with something to make it taste horrible) in the paint section of any hardware store as denatured alcohol....

I have read that  isopropanol is more effective on bacteria while ethyl alcohol is better inactivating viruses. People sometimes mix the two, with an alcohol concentration of at least 60%.

Both are just as effective:
https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/disinfection/disinfection-methods/chemical.html

[jfiresto]

The hand sanitizer I have says the active ingredient is ethyl alcohol, you can buy that stuff (mixed with something to make it taste horrible) in the paint section of any hardware store as denatured alcohol....

I have read that  isopropanol is more effective on bacteria while ethyl alcohol is better inactivating viruses. People sometimes mix the two, with an alcohol concentration of at least 60%.

Both are just as effective:
https://www.cdc.gov/infectioncontrol/guidelines/disinfection/disinfection-methods/chemical.html

While the study confirms isopropyl alcohol is "fully effective" against lipophilic viruses, such as the corona, it is less encouraging about those that are not:

Ethyl alcohol, at concentrations of 60%–80%, is a potent virucidal agent inactivating all of the lipophilic viruses (e.g., herpes, vaccinia, and influenza virus) and many hydrophilic viruses (e.g., adenovirus, enterovirus, rhinovirus, and rotaviruses but not hepatitis A virus (HAV) 58 or poliovirus) 49. Isopropyl alcohol is not active against the nonlipid enteroviruses but is fully active against the lipid viruses 72. Studies also have demonstrated the ability of ethyl and isopropyl alcohol to inactivate the hepatitis B virus(HBV) 224, 225 and the herpes virus, 490 and ethyl alcohol to inactivate human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) 227, rotavirus, echovirus, and astrovirus 491.

It probably doesn't matter for this application. I prefer ethyl alcohol because of its non-pungent smell. If it has been denatured, I mostly notice that.

[wetmonday]

Hi Dave and everyone

I hope you don’t mind me contacting you all like this but I was wondering if you would mind checking if the isopropyl alcohol, I own is safe to use for making some hand sanitiser.

The PDF with the isopropyl is nine pages and goes over my head. You see I am a basic PC builder (as a hobby) and know nothing about electronics, I buy the isopropyl to clean my PC parts and screens. If anyone can please help, I can direct you to the shop that sells it or send you the PDF if I am unable to attach it here.

Thanks

Mario

[KaneTW]

You just put it on your hands, any grade is fine.

[ogden]

I know a handful of people who work in bars and restaurants which the governor of WA has decided to "temporarily" close.

Apart from hand sanitizer and medical face mask manufacturers, everybody else is hit. Whole car industry is shutting down in Europe, airlines are scaling down as well. My point was that people are discouraged to gather in public places such as bars or the theme parks.

[SeanB]

Got plenty enough chlorhexadine gluconate to last me a while, and it is a very effective antiseptic, though it is contra indicated for use on open wounds, because of the iodine in it.  Also got a lot of methylated spirits on hand, simply because it is always useful, and depending on the brand your denaturing agent for the ethanol is either methanol or MEK, making it a good solvent. Also got a good amount of plain methanol.

Then the odd one out, potassium permanganate, used as fish medication, which is a pretty effective antibiotic, though it does leave everything brown afterwards. But magic for destroying anything with amino acids in it in high concentration, so will destroy clothing if applied concentrated as well. Also a litre or two of liquid soap for dispensers as well, not waterless, but useful still, it is in the bathroom for regular washing, just refill when empty, and the bulk liquid is cheap as well.

[Stray Electron]

  I had forgotten about Potassium Permanganate. That used to be a very common disinfectant but I don't think it's ever used any more and I don't know if you can still buy it without going through some kind of specially or commercial supplier.

   Just don't mix it with brake fluid or glycerine. :-0

[EEVblog]

Hi Dave and everyone
I hope you don’t mind me contacting you all like this but I was wondering if you would mind checking if the isopropyl alcohol, I own is safe to use for making some hand sanitiser.
The PDF with the isopropyl is nine pages and goes over my head. You see I am a basic PC builder (as a hobby) and know nothing about electronics, I buy the isopropyl to clean my PC parts and screens. If anyone can please help, I can direct you to the shop that sells it or send you the PDF if I am unable to attach it here.

Yes, seems like 100% IPA/isopropyl although it doesn't actually say the %
Just mix with 30% water and you are good to go 

[https403]

Hello everyone

I got a bottle of Isopropyl Alcohol off Amazon that claim to have 99%+. Later I noticed its label wrote "industrial grade", and makes me wonder if it is safe to use to make hand sanitizer. Can someone help?

Thanks

Edit: Link to Amazon -> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y125RKY/

[Stray Electron]

  Nope, you can't use that. In fact, it's flammable and you shouldn't even have it. You can send it to me for safe disposal.

[janoc]

If someone is wondering about the sanitiser

- industrial grade is most likely OK, it just means it is unsuitable to use on wounds and such (i.e. in a medical setting, for example to wipe down skin before inserting an IV needle) because there could be some impurities or additives that don't matter for industrial use. For basic hand washing it is fine, I just probably wouldn't grab food after cleaning my hands like this, though (some of the industrial additives can be toxic if ingested).

- if you don't have IPA, normal ethanol (= the stuff some of us like to drink) is fine, even denatured (just see the note above). In fact, the WHO page has recipes for both types, they are essentially identical:

https://www.who.int/gpsc/5may/Guide_to_Local_Production.pdf

- do not fill the solution into a spray/atomizer bottle (like Dave did in the video)! With that you are only a spark (e.g. ESD) away from a fireball!

Atomized alcohol in such concentration is extremely flammable, even explosive if sprayed in an enclosed space (e.g. a car). I mean - fire is certainly a disinfectant too but burned hands and singed eyebrows are not fun. Use a bottle with a normal nozzle instead.

[Sjaak]

if you prefer a gel you can use aloe vera gel (used as aftersun) mixed with alcohol to get the same result. the Aloe vera gel moisturizes the skin. Prolly somewhat safer then a spraybottle.

Other sources for alcohol are vodka and burning spiritus (i think it is called white spirit in english speaking countries)

[janoc]

if you prefer a gel you can use aloe vera gel (used as aftersun) mixed with alcohol to get the same result. the Aloe vera gel moisturizes the skin. Prolly somewhat safer then a spraybottle.

Other sources for alcohol are vodka and burning spiritus (i think it is called white spirit in english speaking countries)

Vodka is useless, the concentration of alcohol is way too low for it to be an effective disinfectant. You need at least 60-70% alcohol. While there are some spirits that reach such concentrations, it is certainly not the case of vodka.

"white spirit" is turpentine, that is not alcohol and certainly not a good idea to use as a hand sanitizer!

"Burning spiritus" is most likely denatured ethanol, that's how it is sold in France as well - "alcool à brûler" which is a mixture of ethanol and methanol (a highly toxic substance).

[KaneTW]

EU no longer uses methanol as the denaturant since 2013. Generally a few % IPA/Butan-2-one and denatonium to make it too bitter to drink.

[helius]

Atomized alcohol in such concentration is extremely flammable, even explosive if sprayed in an enclosed space (e.g. a car).

Please stop spreading nonsense. The LEL (lower explosive limit) in air for isopropyl alcohol is 2.2% by weight. This corresponds to 96 grams of alcohol vapor in a mid-sized automobile (4 m^3 volume). That weight of aerosol requires over a thousand squeezes of a spray bottle, if you could keep the vapor airborne, which you can't.

In actual fact, secondary alcohols burn relatively poorly, which is the reason they are used as cleaners. They burn even worse than primary alcohols, which are themselves no great drama. As a boy a flaming rag soaked with rubbing alcohol passed across my arm, which resulted in a barely first degree burn. The palm of your hand covered in rubbing alcohol burns with little heat and is trivially extinguished. Saying that you are "a spark away from a fireball" is some kind of joke.

[ogden]

- do not fill the solution into a spray/atomizer bottle (like Dave did in the video)! With that you are only a spark (e.g. ESD) away from a fireball!

Virtually nonexistent possibility of fireball is not actual problem here. Evaporation is. Low viscosity fluid works best for spray bottle, yet it will evaporate fast. The longer alcohol stay on your hands - the better chances it will actually do it's job. That's why most sanitisers usually are made as jelly so it will stay on your hands longer. Jelly obviously is not compatible with spray bottles. BTW ethanol evaporates faster than isopropyl.

[janoc]

Atomized alcohol in such concentration is extremely flammable, even explosive if sprayed in an enclosed space (e.g. a car).

Please stop spreading nonsense. The LEL (lower explosive limit) in air for isopropyl alcohol is 2.2% by weight. This corresponds to 96 grams of alcohol vapor in a mid-sized automobile (4 m^3 volume). That weight of aerosol requires over a thousand squeezes of a spray bottle, if you could keep the vapor airborne, which you can't.

Yes, tell that to those folks that blew up their car by spraying an air freshener in it.


Yes, that's not alcohol vapor but likely a spray with butane or similar propellant, but it is certainly possible to cause an explosion by filling a car with flammable substance and being stupid.

In actual fact, secondary alcohols burn relatively poorly, which is the reason they are used as cleaners. They burn even worse than primary alcohols, which are themselves no great drama. As a boy a flaming rag soaked with rubbing alcohol passed across my arm, which resulted in a barely first degree burn. The palm of your hand covered in rubbing alcohol burns with little heat and is trivially extinguished. Saying that you are "a spark away from a fireball" is some kind of joke.

Well, try to spray some alcohol around a cigarette or sparking lighter and you will see what happens if you don't believe me. Ever heard about how a carburetor works?

I didn't say that you will get burns but that there will be a fireball - i.e. the atomized alcohol will ignite. And IPA burns certainly well enough for that, especially when atomized into tiny droplets mixed with air. Ethanol even more so.

[ogden]

Yes, tell that to those folks that blew up their car by spraying an air freshener in it.

Yes, tell that to everybody who uses sugar. It can explode as well:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Georgia_sugar_refinery_explosion

[james_s]

As can flour, grain mills have exploded before. Any flammable material that can be atomized can form a fuel/air bomb although some stuff is much more likely than others.

I remember when I was a teenager working at a fast food joint we used to smear hand sanitizer on the stainless wall next to the grill and light it on fire. Bored teens passing the time doing what bored teens do.

[KaneTW]

Don't spray at an ignition source. Don't spray so much that there's more alcohol in the air than water.

In order to reach the LEL, you need to evaporate at least 50 g/m3 of IPA, so about 150g given a car volume of 3 m3. That's not going to happen.



You can't stop idiots from doing stupid things, but also you shouldn't. That's how you get overly regulated garbage such as not allowing chemicals to be sold to individuals without child-proof caps that are more of a safety hazard than a regular cap.

Educate them instead.

[ogden]

Any flammable material that can be atomized can form a fuel/air bomb although some stuff is much more likely than others.

Anyway argument that guys made big potato gun (or just free commercial) out of their car just to get into news for few minutes, do not stand here.

[edit] Unless anybody actually proves that "EEvblog DIY Hand Sanitiser" is explosive and dangerous, it is just     

[wetmonday]

Hi all

I posted a message on this subject on this page, a couple of weeks ago, but due to problems I was unable to thank Dave and all the posters for taking the time to advice me all. You have all been very kind.

[c64]

Is it necessary to add water? 100% IPA can not kill virus?