Author Topic: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37  (Read 54394 times)

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Offline PawelW

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Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« on: October 14, 2009, 06:10:56 pm »
This post is related to Episode #37.
Let's start discussion about possibility to extend functionality of Rigol DS1052E.
Can we extend analog bandwidth to 100 Mhz?
Can we add Logic analyser?
Can we modify firmware?
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2009, 08:49:10 pm »
Here are the photos of the 100MHz unit:
http://home.comcast.net/~ajawam1/rigol/RIGOL_DS1102E_GUTS.html
Unfortunately the user was only interested in the crappy soldering on his unit, so it's not a complete set of photos. I've asked if he has any more, but haven't heard back yet.
It's enough to see some of the missing components on the DS1052E are still missing on the DS1102E.

Dave.
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2009, 08:58:07 pm »
Note: OMG, I just finished to write this post and I see that you replied with a link with pictures of a bad soldering job... Draw your own conclusions!!!  :o :o
I didn't change it to reflect new informations:


It may be a hint, or maybe not..

If the limit is implemented in hardware, I guess it would be easier to produce the same PCB for both the products and then let an underpaid chinese add the missing component. This would imply imperfections in the soldering job. Also, it would be difficult to solder inside the metal shield, so I guess that the component is outside them. Now take a look at this:
http://www.eevblog.com/images/DS1052E-ADCsupport2.jpg
Do you see any solder imperfections? Maybe components from a clearly different batch?
I see two possible flux residues: on the chip in the middle-top, and on the chips in the far left.
-The chips in the left are probably TLC2274 (the most similar name I could find), quad op-amps. The lower one has a place for a component connected to pin 7. It's the only not mounted component in all the section! (besides one resistor on the bottom right). Also, that pin is connected to another resistor. Maybe it's a matter of moving that part to the free place? I don't think so.
-The chip in the middle has a resistor connected to pin 12 and 13. This resistor, the one below it, and the similar one on the right of the "3EM" transistor, are the only 3 components mounted in an imperfect way in this section of the board. Coincidence?

What do you all think?  ???
 

Offline Ferenczyg

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2009, 10:37:06 pm »
Hi

Well I was seriously considering buying the 100 MHz one after seeing the 50 MHz one review, and after your #37 you almost blown my mind with the part about that just a non-custom component could make the difference.  Also, it is almost unbeliveable for me that they are asking about 250$ for the 50MHz one and about 500$ for the 100 MHz one (ebay prices), it is basically like asking for 250$ for just that component.

By now I will wait a little before buying one or the other until this pointbecomes more clear, at least you've saved 250$ to me ;) and for sure I will follow this thread with a lot of interest.

Thx you all
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 10:41:17 pm by Ferenczyg »
 

Offline mttee2

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2009, 11:48:24 pm »
Here are the photos of the 100MHz unit:
http://home.comcast.net/~ajawam1/rigol/RIGOL_DS1102E_GUTS.html
Unfortunately the user was only interested in the crappy soldering on his unit, so it's not a complete set of photos. I've asked if he has any more, but haven't heard back yet.
It's enough to see some of the missing components on the DS1052E are still missing on the DS1102E.

Dave.

OMG. Look at the crappy soldering. There is a sudden drop of 100USD for DS1052E around the month of July. Does this manufacturing quality has any relationship to the price difference?  ???
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2009, 06:21:17 am »
Yesterday I managed to remove the warranty sticker without damaging it. Maybe I'll open it on the weekend. Dave, how did you remove the handle? I don't want to ruin the plastic...
 

Dynomo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2009, 06:51:29 am »
Thanks for the pictures Dave. Though they are not great, comparing the 2 it looks like they have reworked or changed a cap in both canned sections. Rework both ? and nothing else? , probably change a component is more like it. Other than that the canned section components look identicle. Looks like they have been changing caps in other places as well manually.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2009, 07:00:57 am by Spark »
 

GeekGirl

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2009, 12:37:58 pm »
I am also following this thread with interest, I have a TDS220 but it has RS232, the Tek software does work if I change the comms speed :( it only runs at 4800bps.

I like the idea of USB for transfer of settings and waveforms.

 

Offline charliex

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2009, 04:42:01 pm »
there is a fairly long discussion on the rigol in here http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663958 (which ends up back to eevblog at the end)

I umm'd and ahh'd a long time about the rigol/owon, at the time i could only find one review which didn't go into a lot of detail so i went with a TDS2024B, it just seemed to good to be true.

the firmware is reported to be in the ultrascope http://www.rigolna.com/download_oscilloscopes.aspx software, i've seen a few being based around on the net that were directly from rigol, but it seems they go quiet sometimes. I can't see the firmware in the ultra scope files i looked at, unless its embedded into the exe, but i don't see any mention of it either.

as a side note, its cool to hack them up for faster speeds, but don't compare the price difference as just being the cost of the components used to make the changes.
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2009, 05:50:45 pm »
Ok... I found something, but I found nothing. Look at this: http://www.eevblog.com/images/DS1052E-ADCsupport2.jpg
Do you see the resistor just above the HC4053M? Well, Dave and the other guy got the same value... Mine is different! Mine reads "242", theirs is "30b" or "306".
What do you think?
 

Dynomo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2009, 05:55:21 pm »
Yours is 50mhz or 100mhz scope ?
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2009, 05:57:18 pm »
It's a 50MHz..
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2009, 06:01:56 pm »
By the way, the soldering job on my unit (purchased around aug 2009) is simply PERFECT!! I didn't even have a flux residue as Dave, and the resistors mentioned earlier are all soldered correctly.
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2009, 06:04:50 pm »
Also: Dave, did you break the power switch?? I see the orange part in the video... And how did you manage to remove the thing around the power connector?
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2009, 06:32:46 pm »
It's still a 4K difference... Well, maybe it's just a pull up.
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2009, 06:59:35 pm »
Yeah, sorry, I'm not in my best mental capabilities right now... Btw, I found that chart as well when you posted about EIA values! :)
Well, I'm almost out of ideas right now.. I think I'll take the bruteforce method and start touching components until I see a change in the cut frequency.
Suggestions?
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2009, 07:02:23 pm »
P.S.: I think that the only difference in software is the text in the "about" screen. My scope has been able to measure up to 300MHz (attenuated).
Also, the quartz with gold legs that is mounted face down in Dave's pictures, is mounted with the value facing up on mine: it's a 100.000MHz one! ;)
 

Offline Ferenczyg

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2009, 12:10:09 am »
« Last Edit: October 16, 2009, 12:13:54 am by Ferenczyg »
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2009, 03:45:04 pm »
Ok, my dad got me the signal generator and another dso. Please send your sugestions quickly as I have to return them monday!!
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2009, 09:39:50 pm »
Yesterday I managed to remove the warranty sticker without damaging it. Maybe I'll open it on the weekend. Dave, how did you remove the handle? I don't want to ruin the plastic...

No need to remove the handle, just the two screws under the handle.
Watch out for the power button, I broke mine! in my haste to get the cover off. So now my scope is permanately switch on!
If the switch can be pulled out before you take the case off then do it, otherwise it's hard to get the case over the power switch.
The cover plate over the main input socket is a sticking point, I managed to prise the case up enough with a screw driver to lift it over the cover plate which then just fell out.
With no power switch and no cover plate, the cover just slides right off.

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2009, 09:43:02 pm »
-The chips in the left are probably TLC2274 (the most similar name I could find), quad op-amps.

That was my thought too, although they only have a gain-bandwidth of 2MHz, so this is puzzling.
Can't see how they could be anything but a quad op-amp.

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2009, 09:54:02 pm »
Ok, my dad got me the signal generator and another dso. Please send your sugestions quickly as I have to return them monday!!

Prove the various marked gold test points and try to find a single ended version of the input signal. The one that goes to the ADC is differential, so there has to be a diffamp there somewhere. Once you've found that, feed in a 1MHz sine wave at close to full scale range to establish a baseline signal level, then just ramp it up and see at what frequency it's down by 3dB. Assuming your signal gen is stable over that range of course.
The metal can on the front end makes a convenient ground clip point.
Be careful with the exposed power supply!

Dave.
 

Offline jimmc

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2009, 10:28:23 pm »
I suspect that there is a discrete component amplifier for the main (HF) signal path and that these amplifiers are used to servo its operating point to ensure DC accuracy.

For an example see the extract from an LG 'scope circuit attached

Jim
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2009, 01:00:53 am »
For an example see the extract from an LG 'scope circuit attached

That shows up as scrambled lines in my Foxit reader

dave.
 

Offline charliex

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2009, 02:10:14 am »
converted it to a rather large png for you. http://www.goth.am/lgcircuit.png
 

Offline jimmc

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2009, 02:23:59 pm »
That's very strange, I'm using Foxit reader myself (free version), and I checked the attachment before posting.
My version was 2.3 build 3201, I've just updated to 3.1.2.1013 and rechecked that that's OK as well.

Jim
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2009, 04:37:07 pm »
I think i found something quite surprising. I don't want to post it now, because I'm not sure if I did everything right, but let me just say that the easiest explanation may also be the correct one, this time. :o
 

Offline Mastro Gippo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2009, 05:55:49 pm »
Ok, I was wrong. Dang.  :(
 

Offline luky315

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2009, 09:57:32 am »
I have a RIGOL DS1052E to and I measured the frequency response.

Looks for me like an analog Cauerfilter with a low order...
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 07:55:06 pm by luky315 »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2009, 11:19:24 pm »
Awesome work!
At which point in the circuit did you measure the frequency response?

Dave.
 

Offline luky315

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2009, 10:12:58 am »
This was only a quick Test with a Function Generator and the build-in measurement function of the Oscilloscope. I took samples in 1MHz steps and filtered the Results with a digital Lowpass.

I haven't opened it yet, but I'll do it next week when I have access to the Lab at the University.
 

Offline Dago

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2009, 04:31:35 pm »
Thanks to Dave and you guys I'm now about $380 (plus customs fees) poorer, just ordered myself a DS1052E :) Now lets get it modded to 100MHz (not that I have any use for such high bandwidth right now... :P)!
Come and check my projects at http://www.dgkelectronics.com ! I also tweet as https://twitter.com/DGKelectronics
 

Offline Veramacor

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2009, 06:08:32 pm »
T minus one week for my Rigol.  Dave, anyone else remember their ebay seller?

V
 

Offline armandas

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #33 on: October 28, 2009, 06:45:29 pm »
T minus one week for my Rigol.  Dave, anyone else remember their ebay seller?

I haven't bought yet, but I saved this seller. He sells Rigols a bit more expensive than Chinese, but has a 100% positive feedback. I wouldn't risk buying from someone with 99% (which basically means they get over a 100 negatives every six months (example)).
 

Offline flolic

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #34 on: October 28, 2009, 07:30:16 pm »
I haven't bought yet, but I saved this seller.

Yes, that is essentially the same guy as this one where I bought mine few days ago  ;D
Still waiting for delivery, DS1102E  8)
 

Offline Veramacor

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #35 on: October 28, 2009, 08:53:16 pm »
So he is selling for $426 as opposed to $386 for the cheapest. 

For fifty dollars more he's offering a US warranty.  Do you know the specifics of a 'US Warranty'?  Does that mean there might be a US service location?


V
 

Offline charliex

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #36 on: October 28, 2009, 10:45:29 pm »
don't quote me, but often that means you ship it back to them, then they send it in for warranty. it also usually means you pay for the international shipping both ways, it can be a headache. Check on Rigol's "Grey" import rules, they might be more relaxed, since its all price control nonsense anyway.

funnily enough i was looking at that aidetech seller last nite and their SMD component packs.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #37 on: October 28, 2009, 11:00:02 pm »
I got mine from a seller named "happyseeds" in china, he was fairly reasonable and cared that much about feedback that I got a £ 50 refund from him,
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #38 on: October 29, 2009, 03:54:42 am »
I got mine from a seller named "happyseeds" in china, he was fairly reasonable and cared that much about feedback that I got a £ 50 refund from him,

I got mine from HappySeeds as well. I believe I was his first customer for this scope.

Dave.
 

Offline Veramacor

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #39 on: October 31, 2009, 03:23:37 am »
Count another one for happyseeds!

Just bought mine $395 US.  T-minus 7 days!

Christmas comes early.   Thanks Dave, and everyone for all the advice.  I wonder what kind of margin happyseeds is getting?

 

Offline Simon

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #40 on: October 31, 2009, 10:59:08 am »
probably a big one as I paid £ 239 for mine and left negative feedback for the noise it has (ok maybe I jumped the gun but...) he got in touch and said he would offer me the chance to return it at his cost if I changed the feedback. I looked up the postage costs and found them to be 75-85 pounds so emailed him back and told him that as i needed a scope and could cope with this but for having better value for money and suggested a £ 50 refund. He immediately complied, so i actually got it for £ 189 and he paid the postage which I bet was maybe another £ 30-50 ? so they must be real cheaply made (and hence the lack of decent shielding on the psu) and he must buy them real cheap for like £ 100-120
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Offline jone

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #41 on: October 31, 2009, 11:38:59 am »
I bought from szcapital88 for around £240 including tracking, no complaints with the service..
 

Offline armandas

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2009, 07:57:34 pm »
I have the DS1052E firmware and would like to compare.

In what format? Could you please share it with us? ::)
 

Offline lovro

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2009, 09:58:48 am »
http://www.mightyohm.com/blog/2009/11/agilent-dso1000-firmware-update-confirms-rigol-connection/

there is some new information about the agilent - rigol connection.
Wonder if it would be possible to mod the firmware, for new colors, new ways of manipulating data etc

Cheers, Lovro
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2009, 01:25:08 pm »
so would the agilant firmware run on the Rigol scope ?
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Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2009, 01:45:35 pm »
so would the agilant firmware run on the Rigol scope ?

Good chance, as I believe the hardware is identical, or it used to be in the older Agilent/Rigol scopes.

Dave.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2009, 01:55:21 pm »
any advantages to using agilant firmware over rigols and any risk of ruining the scope ? someone willing to try this ?
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Offline Veramacor

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #47 on: November 17, 2009, 07:11:24 pm »
My new Rigol finally found its way home :)

Here is my 'lab'.  My theme is 'nothing can stay on the bench'

And yes that Harbor Freight multimeter is going in the trash soon.  Its the next thing to get an upgrade.  Maybe looking at a Fluke 18B or other (any suggestions for <= $80 US?).  

15 days to deliver it from Nanning, PRC.  Did anyone buy those gimmick toys from comic books when they were young?  (i.e. Sea Monkeys, garlic chewing gum, etc.)  They always were 2 to 4 weeks delivery.  About the same as waiting for the DS1052E to arrive.

Hey Dave,  can you sign my Oscilloscope!?!   LOL, if you send me your digitized signature, I'll print it right out and paste it on -  yes, I'm a geeky enough to be serious.  ;D

V

Addition:  What was I thinking??  I can make a nice project out of that Cen-Tech.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2009, 07:18:55 pm by Veramacor »
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #48 on: November 17, 2009, 07:15:46 pm »
thats a very nice setup there
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
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Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline charliex

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #49 on: November 17, 2009, 07:57:27 pm »
As a spare toolbox meter i picked up a protec 6300 for $50 at frys ( it was either on sale or marked incorrectly) the 6100 is $49

http://www.frys.com/product/5285857?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

Not as good as my fluke 88, its not as responsive but it has a great feature set, you should be able to find it cheaper than frys current USD $79.

I've had no issues with it, other than the response time, but i've yet to find a cheap digital meter with a fluke like response time.
 

Offline Veramacor

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #50 on: November 17, 2009, 08:50:20 pm »
Great suggestion Charliex,

That almost exactly hits the budget constraint.  I'll check the Protec out.

I bought the Centec from HF on sale as well.  $3.99!  That's less than some of the project boxes Radio shack are selling.  Now I have a project box with built in LCD screen and selector switch...
 

Offline charliex

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2009, 06:37:48 pm »
I also have the PROTEK B940 bench DMM, but i couldn't recommend it to anyone. The selector switch is hard to turn, the LCD is hard to read and looks like it has the old problem of LCD's with that rubbery contact strip that doesn't, so you get some of the sections lighter than others and its hard to read at angles.

For some reason the backlight is a momentary on, as opposed to a latch. I never understand that one, especially on a mains powered device (though it can be powered by a 9V battery). I like the backlight on, same as the audible beep for continuity tests.

If the device doesn't have the faculties to store a boolean flag between sessions, a simple latched switch solves that.

 

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #52 on: January 13, 2010, 12:35:14 am »
I actually ordered a Rigol from HappySeeds through ebay, but the day after I bought it all his auctions and his account were shut down by ebay for some sort of violation, though I think he might be back on now. He never sent me the scope and did not respond to my communications, so ebay refunded my money. It seemed that all the cheap Rigols were taken off ebay at the same time.

This was actually the second problem in a row for me for buying a scope through ebay where ebay had to refund my money. The first scope was an Owon that I am now glad never arrived since I can now see they are clearly inferior to the Rigols. I have now ordered a Rigol from a US vendor for $512 delivered. Not the best price, but after two months of trying to get a scope I gave up on getting a bargain and this scope is due to arrive in two days. I found overseas vendors still selling them for about $100 less, but I didn't want to risk it without at least the protections offered by ebay.
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #53 on: January 13, 2010, 12:35:08 pm »
oh happyseeds is back or is it another seller with the same name ? maybe he was just suspended ?
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline Zapro

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2010, 09:03:28 pm »
Wow, i saw this DS1052E scope at EEvblog 14 days ago, and realised that i just NEEDED to have it.

Arrived today, 4 days transit from UK (i'm located in Denmark)

Bought it on ebay. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260540024931

I just LOVE it, it's brilliantly!!!
Very good value for money.

Anyway, while looking around the net, i realised that RIGOL not only deliver OEM parts for Agilent (as discussed here) they make other brands entry level models too, see this for example:

http://frankie.eefocus.com/stupid/blog/08-09/156839_4013b.html

Lecroy and ATTEN, both using RIGOL parts for sure. The buttons on the front panel is just put in a different manner.

Seeing this can only give RIGOL more credibility anyway.

Another thing, can anyone explain to me what SinX/X feature is for ? The manual does not describe it in detail, nor have i ever heard of it  ;D

Regards,
Per.
 

Offline Zapro

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2010, 09:06:17 pm »
My new Rigol finally found its way home :)

Here is my 'lab'.  My theme is 'nothing can stay on the bench'


WOW, i love that bench and all that order !!!

// Per.
 

Offline armandas

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2010, 11:11:02 pm »
http://frankie.eefocus.com/stupid/blog/08-09/156839_4013b.html
I'm a bit sceptical about the possibility of LeCroy outsourcing their scopes. Could be just a knock-off. Anyone else now anything about this?
 

Offline charliex

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #57 on: January 23, 2010, 12:13:38 am »
Lecroy has outsourced for years. They've recently announced (this month) that they're starting to reverse that and bring more of the manufacturing inhouse.

The wavejet/surfer 4000 is made by iwatsu, waverunner 6000a,xi,wavesurfer xs are made by plexus. I don't know who makes the waveace. wavemaster, waveexpert, and wavepro were inhouse, at least they were.
 

Offline jahonen

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #58 on: January 23, 2010, 08:11:41 am »

Another thing, can anyone explain to me what SinX/X feature is for ? The manual does not describe it in detail, nor have i ever heard of it  ;D

Regards,
Per.

Sin x/x is a novel way to "join the dots". This has been discussed here, in the first post of that topic.

Regards,
Janne
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #59 on: January 24, 2010, 12:39:12 am »
Another thing, can anyone explain to me what SinX/X feature is for ? The manual does not describe it in detail, nor have i ever heard of it  ;D

As someone else said, it's a nicer way to "join the dots" on the display. But not only that, it can be proven mathematically that it will reproduce the input waveform *precisely* from only (if IIRC) 4 samples per cycle. Taking into account the front end bandwidth filter that is.

Here is an Agilent article on it:
http://i.cmpnet.com/planetanalog/2009/02/Sin(x)x_Agilent.pdf

Dave.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2010, 12:43:16 am by EEVblog »
 

Offline Joy at MCS

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #60 on: March 30, 2010, 10:48:55 am »
Hello Everyone



In regards to the question about Logic analyzers, I asked Rigol this question for another customer and was told that a  logic analyzer can not be added on seperately.

 Do you already own a Rigol scope without logic analyzer or do you just want a  scope which you could be able to add a logic analyzer to in the future?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2014, 09:54:54 pm by Joy at MCS »
 

Offline Ferroto

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2010, 04:48:40 pm »
Hello Everyone,

 We are the Uk distributors for Rigol.  All products purchased thru us are locally supported here in  the UK.  If you'd like any Rigol products or anything else please feel free to contact me direct.

In regards to the question about Logic analyzers, I asked Rigol this question for another customer and was told that a  logic analyzer can not be added on seperately.

 Do you already own a Rigol scope without logic analyzer or do you just want a  scope which you could be able to add a logic analyzer to in the future?


Depart you evil demons of SPAM!!!!!!
 

Offline Joy at MCS

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #62 on: March 31, 2010, 11:53:21 am »
 I don't see it as Spam.

 I was answering  a question which was posted awhile ago about  regarding if the Logic Analyzer could be added to the Rigol 1052E.
Ie this post:
This post is related to Episode #37.
Let's start discussion about possibility to extend functionality of Rigol DS1052E.
Can we extend analog bandwidth to 100 Mhz?
Can we add Logic analyser?
Can we modify firmware?

What I didn't realize at the time was that this was an older post I was replying to. Sorry.

 I don't see anything wrong with telling people where they can get Rigol equipment from a reputable source.



 

Offline Simon

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #63 on: March 31, 2010, 12:29:27 pm »
perhaps website link may help so we can see who you are
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2010, 06:02:22 pm »
The description of the DS1102E is somewhat misleading: http://www.mcs-testequipment.co.uk/product/rigol-ds1102e-100-mhz-digital-oscilloscope-with-logic-analyzer/ you basically state that the "E" model has a 16 chanel logic analyzer. The "D" model has the analyzer, ok I know there little brochure is available for download and you put "DS1000D" in brackets but I don't consider a supplier that is so ambiguos worth my time, just out of curiosity how much are you selling that scope for in the UK ?
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline dimlow

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #65 on: April 01, 2010, 09:50:50 am »
Hello Everyone,

 We are the Uk distributors for Rigol.  All products purchased thru us are locally supported here in  the UK.  If you'd like any Rigol products or anything else please feel free to contact me direct.

In regards to the question about Logic analyzers, I asked Rigol this question for another customer and was told that a  logic analyzer can not be added on seperately.

 Do you already own a Rigol scope without logic analyzer or do you just want a  scope which you could be able to add a logic analyzer to in the future?


This is strange because i have a problem with my scope and have been talking to Rigol about this, early last week i asked if they had a official distributor here in the uk, that i could send my scope to for repair instead of sending it to china. They said they have no official Rigol representative in the UK? If you are really the UK official distributor, then maybe you can also sort out my problem. The Scope is still under warranty. So where do i sent it too ?

Yes i did notice you say "All products purchased thru us are locally supported here in  the UK" but surly if you are indeed the official UK Rigol , you should have a close relationship with Rigol China and would be able to deal with all the scopes that are currently in the UK and offer full support for all Rigol products.
 

Offline Joy at MCS

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #66 on: April 01, 2010, 10:36:17 am »
Hi Dimlow,


 I would be interested to know who you spoke to in Rigol  as we are Uk distributors for their products. 

 We are their distributor/sales partner for the UK, but we are not a UK repair center.  We do not get any money or reimbursement from Rigol for repairs.

As with most any type of test equipment you would purchase , you will need to return it to the supplier who you bought the equipment from. They should be happy help you and should honor the warranty they supplied you with.

    We only support Rigol equipment which is purchased thru us directly. 

 If you are having issues with your supplier, if you send me an email with what your issue is  I can ask some of the local repair houses that we use if they can repair your unit and send you their contact details directly.

Have a good day.
Joy

 

Offline dimlow

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #67 on: April 03, 2010, 09:23:48 pm »
IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU DID NOT BUY FROM US GET LOST!

i guess you will only support uk customers who pay over the top prices

Message received!
 

Offline Dynomo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #68 on: April 03, 2010, 09:26:40 pm »
IN OTHER WORDS, IF YOU DID NOT BUY FROM US GET LOST!

i guess you will only support uk customers who pay over the top prices

Message received!

My exact thoughts to !
 

Offline Simon

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #69 on: April 04, 2010, 12:44:06 am »
thats fairly reasonable considering most of us bought ours off ebay for £ 239, basically rigol offer no support and sending it back may mean never seeing it again
https://www.simonselectronics.co.uk/shop
Varied stock of test instruments and components including EEVblog gear and Wurth Elektronik Books.
Also, if you want to get ripped off: https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/simons_electronics?_trksid=p2047675.l2559
 

Offline Dynomo

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2010, 06:44:03 am »
Dave you should ban spammers from posting products and prices on these forums.

I would give them some advertising space they rent, buy. Then everyone wins as it helps pay costs towards new blogs and running the site.

RCgroups does this, check it out !
« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 06:50:23 am by Dynomo »
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #71 on: April 05, 2010, 09:17:30 pm »
Dave you should ban spammers from posting products and prices on these forums.
I would give them some advertising space they rent, buy. Then everyone wins as it helps pay costs towards new blogs and running the site.
RCgroups does this, check it out !

Normally I would agree, but from my point of view Joy's posts are acceptable, as she is actually contributing to the discussion and trying to help out IMO.

Dave.
 

Offline Mechatrommer

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #72 on: April 07, 2010, 06:47:54 pm »
ha, just found this in time. my rigols broken. i need help from all fellas here esp joy from msc. i have an issue with my rigol (sorry i have to provide a link, its too long to retype) here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1222045, hope some help.

p/s: to joy msc, if you find the solution and think i can fix it from home, pls provide your quotation, there no way i can send it to you as i'm from thousands km away, tq.
if something can select, how cant it be intelligent? if something is intelligent, how cant it exist?
 

Offline clonecrp

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #73 on: April 16, 2010, 01:46:14 pm »
Hi Guys! This is my first shot at this... Referencing the Rigol Scope. Is a 50 Ohm terminator on A or B inputs necessary ? Will improve display ?
Please advise...

DOug
 

Offline jahonen

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #74 on: April 16, 2010, 02:28:39 pm »
Hi Guys! This is my first shot at this... Referencing the Rigol Scope. Is a 50 Ohm terminator on A or B inputs necessary ? Will improve display ?
Please advise...

DOug

Terminator is usually used only if your source and cable is also matched to 50 ohms. For normal 1:10 probes, the terminator should not be used.

Regards,
Janne
 

Offline clonecrp

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #75 on: April 16, 2010, 06:42:55 pm »
Good ... and thanks for the info... Love the Scope !
Doug
 

Offline Neutron7

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #76 on: June 03, 2010, 07:54:22 pm »
Hi, I just got this scope, mainly for monitoring synthesizer waveforms when writing DSP and firmware.
I think the fan is a bit too loud (its louder than all the fans on my PC, yet it hardly seems to move any air)

A few people here have apparently taken the scope apart already, and maybe you could let me know how hot it runs.

there are a couple of things that come to mind, One is that there might be a control in the firmware to adjust the fan speed, or secondly use an extra internal zalman fan speed controller i have.

If anyone has any thoughts on that please let me know.

By the way i am not that worried about warranty, I bought it from China for $360 US so i doubt it would be easy to return it anyways.
 

Offline Joy at MCS

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #77 on: June 08, 2010, 11:06:25 am »
The fan on the Rigol units does run a bit loud on some of the units. It doesn't mean that anything is wrong or that the unit will overheat.
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #78 on: June 08, 2010, 11:58:22 am »
I have the same, fans are simple enough to replace, but so many low noise one's eventually make noise as they 'settle in'.

If you do mod it let us know how you fared and what you did to get around it.



Hi, I just got this scope, mainly for monitoring synthesizer waveforms when writing DSP and firmware.
I think the fan is a bit too loud (its louder than all the fans on my PC, yet it hardly seems to move any air)

A few people here have apparently taken the scope apart already, and maybe you could let me know how hot it runs.

there are a couple of things that come to mind, One is that there might be a control in the firmware to adjust the fan speed, or secondly use an extra internal zalman fan speed controller i have.

If anyone has any thoughts on that please let me know.

By the way i am not that worried about warranty, I bought it from China for $360 US so i doubt it would be easy to return it anyways.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline EEVblog

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #79 on: June 08, 2010, 12:30:06 pm »
Hi, I just got this scope, mainly for monitoring synthesizer waveforms when writing DSP and firmware.
I think the fan is a bit too loud (its louder than all the fans on my PC, yet it hardly seems to move any air)

A few people here have apparently taken the scope apart already, and maybe you could let me know how hot it runs.

there are a couple of things that come to mind, One is that there might be a control in the firmware to adjust the fan speed, or secondly use an extra internal zalman fan speed controller i have.

The air that comes out my Rigol is not noticeably warm even after using it for quite some time. I suspect you could get away with simply disconnecting the fan altogether, unless you used it for long periods in a high ambient environment. I should actually measure the temp.

Dave.
 

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #80 on: June 08, 2010, 01:02:13 pm »
Keep in mind that a significant part of the noise is caused by the airflow. So without reducing the airflow or increasing the size of the fan, there's only so much you can do (eg. improve bearing noise). I wouldn't reduce the airflow without careful analysis, there might be a corner that got insufficient cooling so they just used the brute force solution and increased the fan speed. Especially with all those overclocked scopes, you need all the cooling you can get. Maybe you can get it to 150MHz with liquid nitrogen cooling ;).
 

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #81 on: June 08, 2010, 02:57:49 pm »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline markman

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #82 on: October 03, 2010, 02:48:02 pm »
A couple of us have posted pictures over on RCGroups.  
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663958&page=62
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663958&page=63

One gentleman put a 20 ohm resistor in series with the fan and then used rubber bands to mount the fan softly (rubber bands fall apart eventually, I wouldn't use them).  I'm sure that raised the internal temperatures slightly, but probably not too much.  I was concerned since this is dissipating 20W and I think my old Tek 475 might have died because the fan wasn't working right anymore.  

I took the original fan out and put a slower 80mm fan in there.  I didn't feel anything too hot on the main board, but the took some readings on a couple of the power supply's heatsinks.  With the original fan, one was reading around 116 and that dropped about 10 degrees with the bigger, quieter fan.  


Hi, I just got this scope, mainly for monitoring synthesizer waveforms when writing DSP and firmware.
I think the fan is a bit too loud (its louder than all the fans on my PC, yet it hardly seems to move any air)

A few people here have apparently taken the scope apart already, and maybe you could let me know how hot it runs.

there are a couple of things that come to mind, One is that there might be a control in the firmware to adjust the fan speed, or secondly use an extra internal zalman fan speed controller i have.

If anyone has any thoughts on that please let me know.
 

Offline xoom

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #83 on: October 08, 2010, 09:39:39 am »
I accidentally found nice little app for Rigol waveform view. It's written by alank2 from RC Groups forum.
SA Sample Studio
All Thanks go to alank2 :)
 

Offline scrat

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2010, 11:14:26 am »
I opened the application, and guess it's only a waveform file viewer. Or does it directly interface to the scope, as the program that Rigol supplies?
I don't have a Rigol here (have just bought one on Dealextreme), so I can't try...
One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man. - Elbert Hubbard
 

Offline xoom

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #85 on: October 08, 2010, 01:05:21 pm »
it's for waveform only :)
 

Offline scrat

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #86 on: October 08, 2010, 10:53:16 pm »
Thanks.
I hoped it was an application for connecting to the scope, but for that there is already the UltraScope from Rigol.
One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man. - Elbert Hubbard
 

Offline marianoapp

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #87 on: October 09, 2010, 03:32:12 am »
I accidentally found nice little app for Rigol waveform view. It's written by alank2 from RC Groups forum.
SA Sample Studio
All Thanks go to alank2 :)

you could also use this MATLAB function, which besides letting you see the waveform you can do whatever you want with the data, like exporting it to a wav file a use it as an input in LTSpice.
 

Offline scrat

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #88 on: October 11, 2010, 08:54:02 am »
I accidentally found nice little app for Rigol waveform view. It's written by alank2 from RC Groups forum.
SA Sample Studio
All Thanks go to alank2 :)

you could also use this MATLAB function, which besides letting you see the waveform you can do whatever you want with the data, like exporting it to a wav file a use it as an input in LTSpice.

I was thinking at Matlab too, which IMHO is one of the most versatile tools for an engineer, and among a world of other things, allows tasks like this to be done very quickly.
When my Rigol will arrive, I think I will try making an application for downloading and viewing and analyzing waveforms.

For example, this lines (using the file linked by marainoapp) should just launch an open file GUI and plot waveform data:
[file_name, path_name, filter_index] = uigetfile('*.wfm');
[y, nfo] = readRigolWaveform([path_name,'\',file_name]);
plot(nfo.x0+[0:nfo.dx:(size(y,1)-1)*nfo.dx],y);
I can't try this (haven't got any Rigol wfm files), but should work.
One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man. - Elbert Hubbard
 

Offline Time

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Re: Rigol DS1052E Ep#37
« Reply #89 on: October 11, 2010, 03:34:32 pm »
I accidentally found nice little app for Rigol waveform view. It's written by alank2 from RC Groups forum.
SA Sample Studio
All Thanks go to alank2 :)

you could also use this MATLAB function, which besides letting you see the waveform you can do whatever you want with the data, like exporting it to a wav file a use it as an input in LTSpice.

I was thinking at Matlab too, which IMHO is one of the most versatile tools for an engineer, and among a world of other things, allows tasks like this to be done very quickly.
When my Rigol will arrive, I think I will try making an application for downloading and viewing and analyzing waveforms.

For example, this lines (using the file linked by marainoapp) should just launch an open file GUI and plot waveform data:
[file_name, path_name, filter_index] = uigetfile('*.wfm');
[y, nfo] = readRigolWaveform([path_name,'\',file_name]);
plot(nfo.x0+[0:nfo.dx:(size(y,1)-1)*nfo.dx],y);
I can't try this (haven't got any Rigol wfm files), but should work.

I have done a ton of work with postprocessing in matlab with the *.csv extension.  I have not used the Rigol but most scopes I have used (unfortunately I am spoiled and have never even used a midrange or low-range scope) save in the *.csv extension.  *.csv is just a comma delimited matrix of the data.  I can imagine it getting any simpler than that.
-Time
 


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