Author Topic: Shuttle PC rebuild  (Read 8558 times)

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Offline MadModder

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Shuttle PC rebuild
« on: June 27, 2014, 07:38:02 am »
A few things popped into mind when watching the video.
Will that smaller heatsink do the job properly?
Will the small power supply cope with the load? You said the shuttle should be compatible with the quad cpu. I'm a tiny bit dubious...
And those tall brown bulging capacitors looking like they'll burst open any second! Please replace them Dave. ;)
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2014, 05:38:30 pm »
Yes, i noticed the doming caps on that motherboard, ready to go into orbit when powered up for a few hours. Will cause a lot of strange slowdowns and glitches there.
 

Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2014, 04:09:10 pm »
Those rack server PSUs are available in what seem like really absurd power ratings for their size, like 1.5kW in a package about half the size of a common optical drive.
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Offline Lightages

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2014, 06:05:31 pm »
Am I missing something here? What video are you talking about?
 

Offline jancumps

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2014, 07:15:06 pm »
Am I missing something here? What video are you talking about?
 

Offline hans

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2014, 07:18:11 pm »
Dave posts slightly off-topic video's like lab experiments and such in his eevblog2 channel:


The Q6600 is/was a very decent CPU (I still ran it as my main machine ~2 years back), and I still know people who run it and use it to play modern games on it.
 However, it is quite a bit of a TDP monster (105W). So I wonder too if the system is rated for it.

PSU is 250W: http://us.shuttle.com/barebone/Models/sd30g2b.html
List doesn't say Core 2 Quad, only Duo. The E6750 is a 65W TDP CPU. The Q6600 is almost double with 105W.

If you take 105W CPU + 50W motherboard/graphics + 30W hard drives, it's about 200W peak load. That's quite insense for a 250W PSU.
Also, the heatsink seems a bit undersized. Luckily, if the CPU starts to run hot it will throttle back, which will inevitably cause performance problems.

So it may work, because chances are the motherboard in that PC is capable or doing more, but I wouldn't be too surprised if any stability issues would come along.
 

Offline Neganur

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2014, 08:46:12 pm »
Unless I'm mistaken, TDP is about thermal power and has nothing to do with actual electrical power? (well, there is ofc a relationship between those but you know what I mean)

I think the Q6600 is said to dissipate above 155 W peak depending on core voltage, frequency and temperature. (source)
 

Offline hans

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2014, 09:33:23 pm »
Oh it could very well be the TDP has a duty cycle taken into account, thus reducing the actual thermal solution requirement.

The power supply will probably have to cope with those higher loads.

That would make the support actually even more marginal, because I was less afraid of heat than of the (peak) power usage.
 

Offline Legit-Design

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2014, 09:38:35 pm »
Unless I'm mistaken, TDP is about thermal power and has nothing to do with actual electrical power? (well, there is ofc a relationship between those but you know what I mean)
Indeed
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_design_power
Quote
The TDP is typically not the largest amount of heat the CPU could ever generate (peak power), such as by running a power virus, but rather the maximum amount of heat that it would generate when running "real applications." This ensures the computer will be able to handle essentially all applications without exceeding its thermal envelope, or requiring a cooling system for the maximum theoretical power (which would cost more but in favor of extra headroom for processing power).[2]
Run some intel burn test or similar test program on it on all cores so that they all max on extended periods of time. I've always heard about badly designed computer PSU taking other parts with it when they go. Maybe we can test that? The old PSU is probably running near it's designed maximum all the time, when it gets some extra load it might just tip over. Maximum continuous designed power might might be far from it's rated maximum.
 

Online Fraser

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2014, 09:49:20 pm »
I bought several 'as new' Shuttle 'Cube' PC's a few weeks ago. The seller said that they were unreliable....re-booting without warning and some not starting at all. None were dusty inside so they had seen very little, if any use.

I bought them to use as project cases and when I took a look at the motherboards, every one had failed capacitors. The capacitors were tall and thin and were in various states of leakage. Just like DELL motherboards of a certain era, the SHUTTLE's suffer significant cap problems.

For reliability they should all be replaced. 
 

Offline IanJ

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #10 on: June 29, 2014, 11:53:02 am »
Up til recently I had four Shuttle PC's (mix of SN68SG20 & SH55J2020 models). One was my main workshop dev PC, another was a web/email server and I had a couple spares.

I powered down the webserver once and it wouldn't boot afterwards, not even to bios...............turned out it was a bad cap.
Hmmmm, seems a bit like they have skimped on using quality caps......albeit I bought mine 2nd hand so no ideas of the previous environment they were in.

All four are now retired into storage......can't bring myself to sell them, coz just like Dave says I really like the wee things.

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Manufacturer of the PDVS2 & PDVS2mini
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #11 on: June 29, 2014, 12:13:37 pm »
Easy enough to replace those caps there.
 

Offline Lefuneste

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2014, 12:15:38 pm »
Up til recently I had four Shuttle PC's (mix of SN68SG20 & SH55J2020 models). One was my main workshop dev PC, another was a web/email server and I had a couple spares.

I powered down the webserver once and it wouldn't boot afterwards, not even to bios...............turned out it was a bad cap.
Hmmmm, seems a bit like they have skimped on using quality caps......albeit I bought mine 2nd hand so no ideas of the previous environment they were in.

All four are now retired into storage......can't bring myself to sell them, coz just like Dave says I really like the wee things.

Yes I confirm this point, I've revived at least two shuttles by replacing these two electrolitic caps that prevent the PC from booting when they go out of spec. Also check the secondary group of electrolitic caps in the PSU. They are about 6 to 8 of them if I remember correctly. They eventually bring the Shuttle to a stop too when you reboot once in a while. They are a bit difficult to change if you have big fingers as they are quite tightly packed into this small PSU. I repaired another 3 PSU in the past for these Shuttles without problems with low ESR Panasonic caps. From my experience it is preferable to replace these caps with top quality ones, than to get a cheap compatible PSU as a direct replacement, as these compatible PSU can be very noisy (sonicaly and electrically). They also tend to heat up quite a bit. Original PSU seem better designed (although not quite fail-proof due to their tiny size). Overall in 25 years of computer assembling practice, I believe that Shuttle, especially the G3 types with one fan only, are by FAR the most reliable consumer PC money can buy. This is a secret I don't share with everyone !! ;-) I am currently running a Linux Mint on a 6 year old XPC with a dual core AMD64. This Shuttle has lived already through 3 PSU. It is absolutely bulletproof and I need to reboot it once every quarter or so. I have just upgraded to a new model with an i7. It is waiting to take the main role, but the old man is so reliable that I don't have real stress doing the upgrade... Before that I had another AMD G3 Shuttle that ran for about 10 years as a server, being rebooted once every 6 months or so... Amazing...
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 12:17:25 pm by Lefuneste »
 

Offline Len

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2014, 05:28:48 pm »
However, it is quite a bit of a TDP monster (105W). So I wonder too if the system is rated for it.

PSU is 250W: http://us.shuttle.com/barebone/Models/sd30g2b.html
List doesn't say Core 2 Quad, only Duo. The E6750 is a 65W TDP CPU. The Q6600 is almost double with 105W.

But according to the video, Dave's box is a SG31G2 which does support the Q6600.
refs:
http://youtu.be/GaMpbx8kMbU?t=8s
http://us.shuttle.com/barebone/Models/sg31g2.html

You do have to be careful about this because some Shuttles have a limit on the TDP for the CPU.

I've had three Shuttle boxes over the years, and only one of them failed due to blown caps (so far). Even that one lasted a couple years past its warranty, which I guess that qualifies as quality manufacturing these days. :-\
 

Offline Stonent

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2014, 07:30:30 pm »
An interesting side bit about the Dell XPS 420 is that it has an LCD integrated into the top of the case that lets you play solitaire even when no OS is loaded, and supposedly there's a way to set it up to be a slide show from windows.

I've always wonder what was in there that drives the LCD, any chance of a quick peek inside to see how it works, Dave?
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Offline NiHaoMike

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Re: Shuttle PC rebuild
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2014, 12:47:09 am »
If it's anything like the front panel LCD in modern Dells (the ones that do have it, at least), it's driven off the embedded controller on the motherboard.
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