Author Topic: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition  (Read 162609 times)

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Online Cerebus

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #350 on: March 26, 2016, 12:04:42 am »
Another thing I notice is a lot of times whatever I was reading before bed will make an appearance in my dreams. Even if in a vague or distorted way. This leads me to believe that my mind is certainly processing the information while I sleep, so perhaps that's why we retain it so much better, because we're immediately given time to process it.

That's definitely the case. If I've an awkward design problem to solve I try to deliberately think about it as I'm just about to go to sleep. Often I have a solution by halfway through next morning's first coffee.

Of course, there's the famous example of Kekulé who elucidated the structure of benzene. To quote him:
Quote
I was sitting, writing at my text-book; but the work did not progress; my thoughts were elsewhere. I turned my chair to the fire and dozed. Again the atoms were gamboling before my eyes. This time the smaller groups kept modestly in the background. My mental eye, rendered more acute by the repeated visions of the kind, could now distinguish larger structures of manifold conformation: long rows, sometimes more closely fitted together; all twining and twisting in snake-like motion. But look! What was that? One of the snakes had seized hold of its own tail, and the form whirled mockingly before my eyes. As if by a flash of lightning I awoke; and this time also I spent the rest of the night in working out the consequences of the hypothesis.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #351 on: March 26, 2016, 07:54:56 pm »
Of course, there's the famous example of Kekulé who elucidated the structure of benzene. To quote him:
[...]

There's a comic for that,

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/7c/22/47/7c2247027ab4cfc884ee3e33bb3c76c8.jpg

:)

Tim
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Electronic design, from concept to prototype.
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Offline rrinker

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #352 on: March 26, 2016, 08:35:42 pm »
 After I looked at that for a second, I remembered enough chemistry to see why it was funny.
 

Online KE5FX

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #353 on: March 26, 2016, 09:48:34 pm »
After I looked at that for a second, I remembered enough chemistry to see why it was funny.

I don't always wave around flasks of benzene, but when I do, I make sure to smoke my pipe!
 

Offline T3sl4co1l

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #354 on: March 27, 2016, 05:26:52 am »
Don't forget, back in the day, chemists did a lot of scary things... smoking over whatever experiments, touching their samples, smelling and yes even tasting them(!)...

Tim
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Offline SeanB

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #355 on: March 27, 2016, 06:43:05 am »
Don't forget, back in the day, chemists did a lot of scary things... smoking over whatever experiments, touching their samples, smelling and yes even tasting them(!)...

Tim

How else would we have artificial sweeteners?
 

Offline TheAmmoniacal

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #356 on: March 27, 2016, 07:22:35 am »
Benzene, my 7th favorite conjugated pi system.
I collect [corporate] mugs.
MTBF ~ 700.000 h
 

Offline GK

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #357 on: April 03, 2016, 03:50:02 pm »
Was just browsing (insomnia) chapter 9 and I think that credit for the "two-transistor" bandgap voltage reference topology that doubles as an error amplifier as used in the LM317 ("Anatomy of a 317", page 604 and figure 9.13 page 606) has been wrongly attributed to Widlar-Dobkin.

To date I was of the understanding that this bandgap topology is originally attributable to Paul Brokaw, as detailed in:
A Simple Three-Terminal IC Bandgap Reference, IEEE JOURNAL OF SOLID-STATE CIRCUITS,VOL.SC-9,NO. 6, DECEMBER 1974

I have attached a pdf of this document. Note that this paper references the paper by Widlar mentioned in chapter 9 (ref#14 page 604):
New Developments in IC Voltage Regulators, IEEE JOURNAL OF SOLID-STATE CIRCUITS,VOL. SC-6, NO 1, FEBRUARY 1971

For convenience, I have attached a pdf of this document also.

Brokaws paper begins with the "conventional bandgap circuit" as outlined by Widlar in the latter, and then builds upon the concept, describing the "new" combined reference and regulator topology that is topologically/functionally equivalent to figure 9.13 in AOE3.

AOE3 "Anatomy of a 317" states that the LM317 was designed by Widlar-Dobkin "around 1970" and gives ref#14. However, ref#14 doesn't actually detail the LM317 circuit shown in fig 9.13, but that of the LM109 fixed 5-V linear regulator, which uses a somewhat different variation of the "conventional bandgap circuit" (as far as I can currently see now at 1.22 am).

It would still be nice to know exactly when the LM317 was designed, but I suspect it wasn't before the Brokaw paper unless there was a highly coincidental/improbable independent development.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 11:41:23 am by GK »
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Offline Thilo78

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #358 on: April 03, 2016, 06:48:31 pm »
Got my set last week.  :-+

Back to school!  ;)
 

Offline GK

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #359 on: April 04, 2016, 05:14:44 am »
Was just browsing (insomnia) chapter 9 and I think that credit for the "two-transistor" bandgap voltage reference topology that doubles as an error amplifier as used in the LM317 ("Anatomy of a 317", page 604 and figure 9.13 page 606) has been wrongly attributed to Widlar-Dobkin.

To date I was of the understanding that this bandgap topology is originally attributable to Paul Brokaw, as detailed in:
A Simple Three-Terminal IC Bandgap Reference, IEEE JOURNAL OF SOLID-STATE CIRCUITS,VOL.SC-9,NO. 6, DECEMBER 1974

I have attached a pdf of this document. Note that this paper references the paper by Widlar mentioned in chapter 9 (ref#14 page 604):
New Developments in IC Voltage Regulators, IEEE JOURNAL OF SOLID-STATE CIRCUITS,VOL. SC-6, NO 1, FEBRUARY 1971

For convenience, I have attached a pdf of this document also.

Brokaws paper begins with the "conventional bandgap circuit" as outlined by Widlar in the latter, and then builds upon the concept, describing the "new" combined reference and regulator topology that is topologically/functionally equivalent to figure 9.13 in AOE3.

AOE3 "Anatomy of a 317" states that the LM317 was designed by Widlar-Dobkin "around 1970" and gives ref#14. However, ref#14 doesn't actually detail the LM317 circuit shown in fig 9.13, but that of the LM109 fixed 5-V linear regulator, which uses a somewhat different variation of the "conventional bandgap circuit" (as far as I can currently see now at 1.22 am).

It would still be nice to know exactly when the LM317 was designed, but I suspect it wasn't before the Brokaw paper unless there was a highly coincidental/improbable independent development.


I was correct of course. The LM317 was introduced in 1976. I think this attached/pictured source can be considered authoritative:

« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 11:56:58 am by GK »
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Offline GK

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #360 on: April 04, 2016, 11:18:41 am »
It's further stated in section 9.10.2 (page 679):

"The classic bandgap reference requires three transistors, two for delta-Vbe and a third to add a Vbe. However, Widlar and Dobkin cleverly created a two-transistor version, first used in the LM317, see Figure 9.13."

I think these sections in chapter 9 need to be re-written for the next printing to give correct credit to Brokaw for the "two-transistor" bandgap reference:

« Last Edit: April 04, 2016, 11:51:38 am by GK »
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Offline ghulands

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #361 on: April 04, 2016, 09:41:50 pm »
My reference copy arrives today with the lab manual on Wednesday. School starts in 5, 4, 3....
 

Offline timofonic

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #362 on: April 04, 2016, 10:50:22 pm »
It's nice people are still looking about the details of the book.

Let's see what people think about the new book, what the more skilled people are able to find.

Are there going to be a third book? "The X Chapters"?
 

Offline winfieldhill

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #363 on: April 06, 2016, 02:06:36 pm »
It's further stated in section 9.10.2 (page 679):

"The classic bandgap reference requires three transistors, two for delta-Vbe and a third to add a Vbe. However, Widlar and Dobkin cleverly created a two-transistor version, first used in the LM317, see Figure 9.13."

I think these sections in chapter 9 need to be re-written for the next printing to give correct credit to Brokaw for the "two-transistor" bandgap reference:



I'll go back and look at my references, and yours, but first, let's say I believe its pretty clear Bob Widlar invented the classic three-transistor Vbe reference.  And he either invented the two-transistor version, or knew about it very early.**  The ISSCC used to be held each year in Philadelphia, and I always went, at least until about 1972, when I started my company and became too busy.  Furthermore the ISSCC moved to the west coast, too far for me to travel.  One year, maybe it was 1969, maybe a year or two later, I was exiting an auditorium mid-session to move to a different session, and I came across Bob Widlar and Bob Dobkin standing alone outside.  (In those days Dobkin was always a Widlar look-alike with his beard.)  At the time I was quite excited about the new Vbe reference circuit and praised it to Widlar.  His answer was that it could be done with two transistors, could I see how?  That took me back and I couldn't think of how, or any answer, so the conversation ended early.  ** I think perhaps what Widlar didn't do, was write about it first.
 

Offline GK

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #364 on: April 06, 2016, 03:10:54 pm »
Thanks for responding,


I'll go back and look at my references, and yours, but first, let's say I believe its pretty clear Bob Widlar invented the classic three-transistor Vbe reference.


I think that is pretty clear also.


Quote
And he either invented the two-transistor version, or knew about it very early.

**The ISSCC used to be held each year in Philadelphia, and I always went, at least until about 1972, when I started my company and became too busy.  Furthermore the ISSCC moved to the west coast, too far for me to travel.  One year, maybe it was 1969, maybe a year or two later, I was exiting an auditorium mid-session to move to a different session, and I came across Bob Widlar and Bob Dobkin standing alone outside.  (In those days Dobkin was always a Widlar look-alike with his beard.)  At the time I was quite excited about the new Vbe reference circuit and praised it to Widlar.  His answer was that it could be done with two transistors, could I see how?  That took me back and I couldn't think of how, or any answer, so the conversation ended early.**

I think perhaps what Widlar didn't do, was write about it first.


Interesting anecdote, though is there a good explanation as to why the conversation with Widlar would suddenly end with the guy "quite excited" about the topic not pressing for further details? Widlar was the kind of guy to bring a sheep to work and then later abandon the animal at a pub. Perhaps he was yanking the guys chain? Or maybe he really had already invented the two-transistor" scheme and for some reason kept it to himself? From that anecdote alone could anyone say one way or another for sure?

In such a scenario, when assigning historical credit, I think one has to stick to the documentary evidence. For example, the two-transistor bandgap topology is nowadays widely used and ubiquitous, and many an integrated circuit design engineer both back in the day and contemporarily would have learnt of the scheme from Brokaw's paper rather than from having studied the internal circuity of the LM317.

Just IMO, a historical and technical exposition of the two-transistor bandgap reference is incomplete if it doesn't reference the paper by Brokaw. If there is anecdotal evidence to suggest that Widlar or Widlar-Dobkin had invented the scheme independently of Brokaw then it is perfectly fine to say so, but not to imply more than what that permits by means of omission.

All that said it would still be interesting to see/find any concrete art prior to Brokaw.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2016, 11:35:47 pm by GK »
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Offline winfieldhill

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #365 on: April 07, 2016, 07:59:47 am »
I agree, we'll edit the section.
 
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Offline Marzogh

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #366 on: April 09, 2016, 03:00:05 pm »
As much as I love my hardback copy, I'd love it if this were available as an ebook. It definitely makes reading it in bed, or in a cafe easier. You shoudl see the looks I get when I lug the hardcover edition into a cafe at 8am on a Saturday morning (to compare, my wife is usually carrying her kindle :P )
 

Offline fpliuzzi

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #367 on: April 09, 2016, 03:12:14 pm »
As much as I love my hardback copy, I'd love it if this were available as an ebook. It definitely makes reading it in bed, or in a cafe easier. You shoudl see the looks I get when I lug the hardcover edition into a cafe at 8am on a Saturday morning (to compare, my wife is usually carrying her kindle :P )

I noticed that there's a Kindle edition of this book if that helps.
 

Offline Marzogh

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #368 on: April 09, 2016, 04:42:22 pm »
Whoops! Thanks for the heads up.  :-+ That's what comes of me typing before I double check. I couldn't access the Kindle version from Australia when a I last checked a while ago, but now I can.

Perfect!  8)
 

Offline Paul Horowitz

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #369 on: April 25, 2016, 09:47:17 pm »
Hey guys, following up on a great suggestion by Jan Kardaun, we've made a (monster) index of all part numbers in the book.  Here's a link to a draft (unchecked, etc; final version will be triple column, and errors fixed):
http://artofelectronics.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/parts_index.pdf
paul
 

Offline Docholiday

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #370 on: April 25, 2016, 10:15:27 pm »
Great Job Paul!
I Thank You for the effort and time it took to put this together. Not asking to much can a Excel version be exported to Excel?
 

Offline Macbeth

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #371 on: April 26, 2016, 12:36:26 am »
Great Job Paul!
I Thank You for the effort and time it took to put this together. Not asking to much can a Excel version be exported to Excel?
Why would you export an Excel to Excel?

What I think you mean is you want the PDF in Excel - in which case you could quite easily manage it with a bit of faffing:

Open PDF. Press CTRL-A and CTRL-C to copy the whole document. Open Notepad, paste it and then save it as 'AOE.CSV'

Open Excel. Open 'AOE.CSV' and choose the comma delimiter.

That will get you mostly what you want. Obviously plenty of bits and bobs to tidy up too. About 15 minutes work I imagine.

Ultimately I think a relational database like MySQL or Access would be best with relations between partnumbers and pages (and suppliers, alternative partnos, etc.) tables
« Last Edit: April 26, 2016, 12:38:00 am by Macbeth »
 

Offline Brumby

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #372 on: April 26, 2016, 01:47:16 am »
You'll lose formatting, which I wouldn't normally be too fussed about - except that italics are used to indicate a 'figure'.

The database idea does have appeal.
 

Offline nowlan

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #373 on: April 26, 2016, 03:29:18 am »
Were these parts in the main book or the lab book. I don't understand why so many similar parts.
Also no description or grouping by type or chapter.

I think I am confusing the lab kit that was in another thread. Which was like $500 in parts, so a big outlay for some. Rather have a list of essential, repeating parts, then a list of optional expensive chips for labs I want to try.
 

Offline Docholiday

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Re: The Art Of Electronics 3rd Edition
« Reply #374 on: April 26, 2016, 03:40:48 am »
Thank you for correcting me in what I was trying to communicate. I have tried the pdf to excel before it just does not work to well and you spend a lot of time re-formating.

 


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