Author Topic: FS: Affordable DMM Checkers: AC Reference, DC Reference, OHMS Reference, etc.  (Read 701 times)

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Offline MajorassburnTopic starter

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I design 'em and build 'em and they REALLY work!  :-DMM
UPDATED eBay Links:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285827428604
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285827427931
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285827426636
Also, Added a Brand New Fluke 87V DMM:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285823885283
Thanx for looking!  :)
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:40:03 am by Majorassburn »
 

Online tggzzz

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I design 'em and build 'em and they REALLY work!  :-DMM
eBay Links:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285825801852
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285823822244
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285807578003
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285823885283
Thanx for looking!  :)

Description states
"LT1236-10 Ultra-Low-Drift 5ppm 10V Reference."
"Final Trim to 10.0000 VDC @ 78F, 50% Humidity"
"NEW, Hand-Crafted in USA to Work PERFECTLY, No Returns."

That's 5ppm per what? Day, month, year, degree C, degree F, supply voltage, RH, shock (since the ICs are socketed)?

Picture below states "Designed to affordably verify the function of Digital Multimeters".
Does that mean it is suitable to verify the function of my Agilent 34410A, Keithley 2015 THD, Solartron 7081?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 10:00:34 am by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
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Offline coromonadalix

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I would say not ...  while i salute the projects,  they can not compare to well designed lm399  and ltz1000  ones or the AD xxx series too

to check 6.5 digits meters you need more ...

Resistors references   are weak ... say ordinary
 

Online tggzzz

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I would say not ...  while i salute the projects,  they can not compare to well designed lm399  and ltz1000  ones or the AD xxx series too

to check 6.5 digits meters you need more ...

Resistors references   are weak ... say ordinary

"You might think that. I couldn't possibly comment" :)
https://villains.fandom.com/wiki/Francis_Urquhart
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online Kosmic

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I design 'em and build 'em and they REALLY work!  :-DMM
eBay Links:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285825801852
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285823822244
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285807578003
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285823885283
Thanx for looking!  :)

Also, about those "0.05% Precision Resistors" do you know the temperature coefficient ? They look like your generic metal film and could be around 200-100 ppm/C. So even, if they were selected, change in ambient temperature could easily move them outside the 0.05% you are mentioning. I don't think calling them "Precision Resistor" is really accurate.

I don't want to be overly negative but all that look a lot like a modern snake oil salesman. Of course your clients are not going to complain, they are not equipped to validate your claims. I'm not even sure you are.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 01:54:01 pm by Kosmic »
 

Offline MajorassburnTopic starter

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I design 'em and build 'em and they REALLY work!  :-DMM
eBay Links:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285825801852
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285823822244
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285807578003
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285823885283
Thanx for looking!  :)
Description states
"LT1236-10 Ultra-Low-Drift 5ppm 10V Reference."
"Final Trim to 10.0000 VDC @ 78F, 50% Humidity"
"NEW, Hand-Crafted in USA to Work PERFECTLY, No Returns."

That's 5ppm per what? Day, month, year, degree C, degree F, supply voltage, RH, shock (since the ICs are socketed)?

Picture below states "Designed to affordably verify the function of Digital Multimeters".
Does that mean it is suitable to verify the function of my Agilent 34410A, Keithley 2015 THD, Solartron 7081?
After reading a mind-sickening slew of your pretentious, bloviating, self-serving and worthlessly hyper-critical replies to almost every thread in the various eevblog forums, I am not surprised that you have, once again, consistent with the nature of your valueless contributions, managed to contextually twist and misconstrue the information contained in my eBay presentations.

I want to thank you for wasting your time to review my eBay ads and I would like to recommend that you NEVER buy anything that I make or offer for sale because, I know from other sellers' experiences in selling to arrogant, self-important, meaninglessly pretentious buyers, that a business-oriented transaction would quickly deteriorate into just one more opportunity for a super-critic like you to clog the supply chain with baseless criticism, irrelevant observations and product misuse, culminating in costly and unjustified returns, refunds and bad feedback. PLEASE DO NOT BUY ANYTHING, EVER, FROM ME!  :-DMM

Now, as you and a few of your fellow super critics must well know by now after reading my various threads and comments in this fantastically helpful eevblog forum, I am offering my devices to the sub-200-dollar DMM buyer (predominantly handhelds) and not to legitimately engaged, professionally employed, high-end DMM owners and users unless they want one out of curiosity, etc..

Please note that I said "legitimately engaged" as opposed to "couch-dwelling, socially-maladjusted, hyper-critical forum irritators and thread-disruptors" who claim that they may HAPPEN to own some high-end equipment and, therefore, are somehow entitled to shower their scorn and derision upon all who may have been so foolish to have bought a DMM that cost less than $1,000.00 to check their electrical outlets, etc. around the house.

Now, to your asinine questions/criticisms:
If you knew anything at all about selling these types of devices on eBay to somewhat unsophisticated buyers (which you obviously have no feel for), you would understand that choking an ad with globs of technical specifications would quickly cause buyers to skip to the next seller's ad.  Achieving a balance of general, parametrically illustrative specifications along with typical and comprehensible application information is about the best a seller can do in the very limited space-time available to encourage a transaction.

Therefore, in my ads, I try to present a few technical specs as a reference base to validate the usability and quality of the device and also, present enough application information to help the potential buyer to recognize the intrinsic usefulness of the device and to stimulate the desire to buy one. Of course, this has worked for me and the buyers of my devices. If you doubt my claim, you are invited to check my feedback as SQWARREL at eBay.

I have stated many times in this forum and elsewhere, that I do not claim my devices are going to satisfy the perfectionist demands of what they call "volt-nuts" or of those who are silly enough to seek a $20 calibrator that could actually perform well-enough to calibrate a DMM6500 or 34465A, etc.

So, your persistently annoying, continuously harping on that vein of your misunderstanding of what my devices are to be used for clearly demonstrates your arrogant, self-righteous effort to discredit the purpose for which and the essence of need for such low-cost verification devices. Please, give it up and take your meds and spare me and others from your side-swiping commentary.

Of course, if you were to somehow become magically capable of re-framing your commentary in a more constructive manner rather than to present as the preposterous hypothecator that you are, your comments might possibly be welcomed and appreciated by participants like me. But, with your track record, I don't think that type of positive behavioral change will be forthcoming from you.  |O

TO: coromonadalix
I totally agree with you. If I were to sell reference devices to super-sophisticated, high-end professionals, I would be spec-ing LM399's and LTZ1000's for $500-$1,000 instead of $20-$40 LT1236's. Thanks for your comments.

 

Offline MajorassburnTopic starter

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I design 'em and build 'em and they REALLY work!  :-DMM
eBay Links:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285825801852
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285823822244
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285807578003
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285823885283
Thanx for looking!  :)
Also, about those "0.05% Precision Resistors" do you know the temperature coefficient ? They look like your generic metal film and could be around 200-100 ppm/C. So even, if they were selected, change in ambient temperature could easily move them outside the 0.05% you are mentioning. I don't think calling them "Precision Resistor" is really accurate.

I don't want to be overly negative but all that look a lot like a modern snake oil salesman. Of course your clients are not going to complain, they are not equipped to validate your claims. I'm not even sure you are.
Thank You for your comments. You have a very sharp eye.
For that eBay photo, I actually hand-selected 1% metal film, 100ppm resistors for that prototype and used it for the photo so I could list it quickly.
However, For the actual devices that I'm selling, the resistors are pre-selected 0.1% 25ppm precision resistors.
And, yes, I am equipped to validate my claims and I can select to better than 0.05% with the DMM6500 that I have access to.
I already changed the spec in the ad to 0.1% based on your observation. Thanks again.
Unfortunately, I don't have any snake oil to sell you! Sorry.  :-DD
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 02:23:02 pm by Majorassburn »
 

Offline MajorassburnTopic starter

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One more comment about my ads:
As for the ppm change in resistors, the documentation I include with every device reminds buyers that resistors (and other components) are temperature sensitive and that my specs for accuracy are based upon operation in a stabilized environment with no-draft ambient of 78F and 60% humidity.

I also include a full printed data sheet for every device that has an active component so that buyers can be fully knowledgeable as to the tempco, etc. of the device they bought. The data sheet is specifically highlighted with voltage reference devices and my documentation recommends that buyers read and understand the relevant data sheet specs as to tempco, ppm shifts/drifts, etc.
Whether they care or not is beyond my control.

I am always available to answer their questions. You can check my eBay feedback to verify.
No snake oil for sale here.  :)
 
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Online tggzzz

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As for the ppm change in resistors, the documentation I include with every device reminds buyers that resistors (and other components) are temperature sensitive and that my specs for accuracy are based upon operation in a stabilized environment with no-draft ambient of 78F and 60% humidity.

Translation: the after-sales literature has sufficient caveats to cover my arse.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Online tggzzz

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If you knew anything at all about selling these types of devices on eBay to somewhat unsophisticated buyers (which you obviously have no feel for), you would understand that choking an ad with globs of technical specifications would quickly cause buyers to skip to the next seller's ad.  Achieving a balance of general, parametrically illustrative specifications along with typical and comprehensible application information is about the best a seller can do in the very limited space-time available to encourage a transaction.

And yet your adverts do contain "gobs of technical specifications". And omissions.

In that context, consider Kosmic's earlier post:
...
I don't want to be overly negative but all that look a lot like a modern snake oil salesman. Of course your clients are not going to complain, they are not equipped to validate your claims. I'm not even sure you are.

Therefore, in my ads, I try to present a few technical specs as a reference base to validate the usability and quality of the device and also, present enough application information to help the potential buyer to recognize the intrinsic usefulness of the device and to stimulate the desire to buy one.
...
I have stated many times in this forum and elsewhere, that I do not claim my devices are going to satisfy the perfectionist demands of what they call "volt-nuts" or of those who are silly enough to seek a $20 calibrator that could actually perform well-enough to calibrate a DMM6500 or 34465A, etc.

If you limited the claimed to, for example, "...verify the function of 3.5 digit Digital Multimeters", then the points wouldn't even arise.

What you claim here (or "elsewhere") is irrelevant; what you claim in the advert is what matters.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2024, 06:39:48 pm by tggzzz »
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline Zucca

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Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 
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Offline MajorassburnTopic starter

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I design 'em and build 'em and they REALLY work!  :-DMM
UPDATED eBay Links:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285827428604
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285827427931
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285827426636
Also, Added a Brand New Fluke 87V DMM:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/285823885283
Thanx for looking!  :)

Updated all eBay links and added a brand new Fluke 87V DMM (2 extras) For Sale.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:43:13 am by Majorassburn »
 

Offline watchmaker

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[

If you limited the claimed to, for example, "...verify the function of 3.5 digit Digital Multimeters", then the points wouldn't even arise.

What you claim here (or "elsewhere") is irrelevant; what you claim in the advert is what matters.

This is basic measurement theory. While you need higher resolution than the manufactured reference to measure its calibration error, that same calibration reference can then be used on on lower resolution instruments (assuming it is stable).  If you only work in mA, you do not care what is going in pA.

So a lot depends on claims for where it should be used.  And the reliablity of the maker.

FWIW, I bought one of the current and voltage references from AliExpress.  It includes a sketchy paper claiming the actual values as measured by some reference down to the 7th decimal point.  Turns out these measurements were within a couple counts on my Fluke 45, Fluke 8842, HP 358a and Keysight 1252.

Have no idea why I bought it since all my instruments already agreed, but it was cheap and I am a measurement junkie (work down to 500 micro meters).
Regards,

Dewey
 

Online tggzzz

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If you limited the claimed to, for example, "...verify the function of 3.5 digit Digital Multimeters", then the points wouldn't even arise.

What you claim here (or "elsewhere") is irrelevant; what you claim in the advert is what matters.

This is basic measurement theory. While you need higher resolution than the manufactured reference to measure its calibration error, that same calibration reference can then be used on on lower resolution instruments (assuming it is stable).  If you only work in mA, you do not care what is going in pA.

So a lot depends on claims for where it should be used.  And the reliablity of the maker.

FWIW, I bought one of the current and voltage references from AliExpress.  It includes a sketchy paper claiming the actual values as measured by some reference down to the 7th decimal point.  Turns out these measurements were within a couple counts on my Fluke 45, Fluke 8842, HP 358a and Keysight 1252.

Have no idea why I bought it since all my instruments already agreed, but it was cheap and I am a measurement junkie (work down to 500 micro meters).

Yes, repeatedly.

You bought it for fun. The only surprise is the degree of agreement.

But, as you know, it is relatively cheap and easy to get all your instruments to agree with each other. It is much more difficult and expensive to get them to agree with two other people's instruments :)
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 


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