Author Topic: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread  (Read 120554 times)

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Offline wiss

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #125 on: September 16, 2015, 07:53:14 am »
Possibly, but that would be several messages back and forth with a turnaround time of 24 h.
For example, today I've got a request opened that item didn't arrive and 4 weeks already passed. Checked the tracking and seems that it was lost once arrived to Germany. Sent the message if he wants refund or to resend the item. He said that wants it being reshipped so I resent it the same day. Two messages from him in total. Needless to say, If he left me a negative feedback saying "scammer - never shipped the item", it won't do anything good to anyone.

Never received item is quite different compared to getting an item that almost looks like the correct one, I did not do that when the solder-tips didn't arrive but accepted a full refund!
 

Offline wiss

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #126 on: September 16, 2015, 08:44:13 am »
Now seller refunded me.

Quote
Good day Jonas,

Thanks for the message, we have cancelled order and refunded payment to you since you don't want us to resend correct goods, you may please check it, furthermore, we did not mean to send wrong items to customers, everyone made mistake sometimes, really sorry for every inconvenience caused, but thanks in advance for your kind understanding, we do hope we could be more helpful for you in the future. Thank you.

Legally this would still be attempted fraud, now I have to think about how to proceed... Did any one else in here buy from this guy?
 

Offline RogerRowland

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #127 on: September 16, 2015, 08:46:57 am »
Sounds like he's bending over backwards to correct his mistake.

What's your problem with that?
 

Offline wiss

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #128 on: September 16, 2015, 09:40:38 am »
He is bending over backwards for me since I complained and gave bad feedback, what about all those that did not complain?
Now I will not make a loss out of this transaction but in the big picture this would be similar to corruption.
 

Offline RogerRowland

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #129 on: September 16, 2015, 09:46:13 am »
I think you need to let it go and move on. Just consider the facts:

You complained.

You got your money back.

So, he will now contact eBay and will ask for your negative feedback to be removed (yes, he can do this).

Then eBay will see that he has just 5 negatives out of 9000 feedbacks in the last 12 months, they will see that he has unilaterally refunded your money, and he has been polite and helpful throughout. They will agree with him that your negative feedback is unfair.

Life is short. The world is not perfect. You can't change that.

Move on .....
 

Offline wiss

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #130 on: September 16, 2015, 11:07:17 am »
I think you need to let it go and move on. Just consider the facts:

You complained.

You got your money back.

So, he will now contact eBay and will ask for your negative feedback to be removed (yes, he can do this).

Then eBay will see that he has just 5 negatives out of 9000 feedbacks in the last 12 months, they will see that he has unilaterally refunded your money, and he has been polite and helpful throughout. They will agree with him that your negative feedback is unfair.

Life is short. The world is not perfect. You can't change that.

Move on .....

I moved on right away :)
I just note that it would be wrong of me to not do anything after the refund!
 

Offline unitedatoms

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #131 on: October 15, 2015, 08:52:30 pm »
Meh. Who could have known that one needs to check what is actually in the bag.
I bought 1.3k resistors, and they were actually 1.2k. Too late, my power supply 15V rail is 800mV off.

This is seller with misadvertised parts. In case if it is honest mistake, I notified him/her.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100pcs-lot-Metal-film-resistor-1-3k-1301-1-1-8W/32369286480.html
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Offline unitedatoms

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #132 on: October 15, 2015, 10:41:41 pm »
Meh. Who could have known that one needs to check what is actually in the bag.
I bought 1.3k resistors, and they were actually 1.2k. Too late, my power supply 15V rail is 800mV off.

This is seller with misadvertised parts. In case if it is honest mistake, I notified him/her.
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/100pcs-lot-Metal-film-resistor-1-3k-1301-1-1-8W/32369286480.html

Technically they are within spec, plus or minus 130 oHms. Are they color coded for 1.2k?

Did you mean 13 Ohms ? They are color coded 1.2k with 1% tolerance. I did not look at code. I am so used to just picking from labeled bags.
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Offline jitter

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #133 on: November 15, 2015, 03:15:42 pm »
Time to leave a post here on Jonas Rijnders from JR Special Electronics, the go between for orders placed on the websites of Gratten.eu, Maynuo.eu, Siglent.eu and Scoob.net.
Mostly relevant for people ordering from the EU, but they might ship worldwide.

I recently placed an order on Maynuo.eu.
First I'll post the facts as objectively as I can, see what you think of it. In the next post I'll include the thoughts that went through my head and it'll be a lot more subjective.

1. I placed an order for two items from Maynuo on Maynuo.eu, an electronic DC load and the optional USB-interface; both items were "in stock", according to the website. The order was payed in advance by bank.
2. I received an autamated email confirmation for creating an account; no email confirmation for placing the order.
3. Logged into my account and looked at the order's status: "processing".
4. A week goes by without any change in the status, so I contact the seller by email and quickly get a response informing me that the unit is in stock but the interface wasn't. New interfaces had arrived and shipments to clients had been resumed. Mine was expected to be consigned a lot tracking number the next day. I politely thank him for the response.
5. The next day I indeed receive an email from DHL that a tracking number had been consigned including a link to track the shipment. I try the link and the number is unknown.
I also check the order status on my Maynuo account and it says "complete".
6. The next couple of days, the tracking number remains unlisted, so I contact DHL by phone. They explain that even though a tracking number was consigned (by JR Special Electronics), the parcel is not yet in their posession.
7. I contact the seller again explaining that the parcel was not handed over to DHL. Again I get a quick response, this time explaining that my order was picked up by their forwarder the day before and that that forwarder should have handed the parcel over to DHL. The seller assures me that he will sort it out straight away. I thank him and ask him to let me know when he knows more.
8. Since it is Friday evening, I decide to wait the weekend. It's now 9 days after placing the order.
9. On Monday, I receive a tracking consignment from TNT Express telling me that a parcel was handed over to them by JR Special Electronics. I check the link, and it works, a parcel is in the posession of TNT Express and I can track its movement.
10. The next day the parcel is delivered to me, 13 days after placing the order. The contents are what I ordered and seem to be in good condition. I never receive a reply on my last email.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 04:49:54 pm by jitter »
 

Offline jitter

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #134 on: November 15, 2015, 04:22:52 pm »
Now the more "adorned" subjective version.

1. I placed an order for two items from Maynuo on Maynuo.eu, an electronic DC load and the optional USB-interface; both items were "in stock", according to the website. The order was payed in advance by bank.
2. I received an autamated email confirmation for creating an account; no email confirmation for placing the order.
3. Logged into my account and looked at the order's status: "processing".


This already has me worried a bit. I'm used to getting several updates from webshops before the order is even sent, so this seems a bit strange.
In the meantime I do some research and what I find doesn't inspire confidence. Streetview in Google maps shows the company adress to be a house in a residential area. But at least the company is listed in the Chamber of Commerce registry (Dutch abbreviation: KvK).
In one of the threads here he  (username: Smoking) denies that his ties with the brands he sells are illegitimate (but he does not adress allegations regarding not keeping stock).
I also come across not too positive remarks about JR Electronics / Jonas Rijnders on this forum of which this thread seems the most negative.

4. A week goes by without any change in the status, so I contact the seller by email and quickly get a response informing me that the unit is in stock but the interface wasn't. New interfaces had arrived and shipments to clients had been resumed. Mine was expected to be consigned a lot tracking number the next day. I politely thank him for the response.

Hmm, both items were in stock when I ordered, according to the website. I'm seriously having doubts about the truthfulness of the excuses I'm being given. What immediately strikes me is that he specifically says: "consigned a tracking numer" rather than "sent".

5. The next day I indeed receive an email from DHL that a tracking number had been consigned including a link to track the shipment. I try the link and the number is unknown.
I also check the order status on my Maynuo account and it says "complete".

Hmm, they said the parcel would be shipped by TNT Express, not DHL. Suspicions that I will ever receive my order grow. I also PM a member here asking about his negative experience. I does look like I will receive my order... eventually.

6. The next couple of days, the tracking number remains unlisted, so I contact DHL by phone. They explain that even though a tracking number was consigned (by JR Special Electronics), the parcel is not yet in their posession.
7. I contact the seller again explaining that the parcel was not handed over to DHL. Again I get a quick response, this time explaining that my order was picked up by their forwarder the day before and that that forwarder should have handed the parcel over to DHL. The seller assures me that he will sort it out straight away. I thank him and ask him to let me know when he knows more.


Well, well... another excuse that I have a hard time believing, but I decide to wait nevertheless.

8. Since it is Friday evening, I decide to wait the weekend. It's now 9 days after placing the order.

During the weekend I ponder about several options available to me. Since the shipping adress is in the Netherlands (actually not even 15 km away!), I do have the benefit of laws protecting me that I wouldn't have had I ordered directly from China. Some more googling finds Jonas' Linked in profile. Ex-army communications officer, and one of the languages he seems to speak a bit is Chinese (well that language doesn't actually exist, so I presume he means Mandarin).

9. On Monday, I receive a tracking consignment from TNT Express telling me that a parcel was handed over to them by JR Special Electronics. I check the link, and it works, a parcel is in the posession of TNT Express and I can track its movement.

So, sent by TNT Express after all. The DHL tracking number must have been another tactic to stall...

10. The next day the parcel is delivered to me, 13 days after placing the order. The contents are what I ordered and seem to be in good condition. I  never receive a reply on my last email.


When unpacking the outer box, I find the inner (Maynuo) box was never opened after it left the factory, but the optional interface was inside nevertheless. So the excuse that the DC load was in stock but not the interface is debunked. Another thing: the factory calibration form shows that it was calibrated on the very same day as I placed the order, remarkable for a unit that was supposed to be in stock in the Netherlands that day...

Here's how I think JR Special Electronics really works: he (yep, a single guy) takes orders and your money and then places the orders with his suppliers in China, he does not keep stock, or very limited at best. The websites look pretty authentic, so I presume that he does this with permission of Atten/Gratten, Maynuo and Siglent.
The prices are the attractive part, they are pretty low. I could have ordered the same stuff from a webstore that does keep stock and receive it within three days, but that would have cost me almost € 120 extra (a whopping 20%!). How can he sell at these low prices? My guess: he is the go between for the brands he sells with permission. The discount he gets earns him a living.

I actually don't mind if I can get a discount like this and then wait a few weeks, as long as I know beforehand that this is going to happen. What I don't like is that he's not honest about it. It looks like the webshop has stock while actually, it doesn't. And also the extent to which he seems prepared to go to create smokescreens flabbergasted me a bit.
He must have been playing this, what I call "game" for a while, judging by some of the dates of the posts on this forum. So he's not actually doing anything illegal, but providing a real service to customers? I don't think so.

Would I order there again? Strangeley enough, now I know the game, yeah, but only if I can wait. This seems the best alternative to buying directly from China but without the associated risks and import duties to be payed afterwards.

So, now this is off my chest I would like to say that you can buy from JR Electronics as long as you are prepared to wait a while. You will also need to be able to take his replies with a grain of salt if you're going to communicate with him on shipping times etc. If you do need something quick, my advice would be not to use the webshop but call him directly asking him if he will consider getting payed after you have received your order. Maybe he can expedite things if gets the right incentive  ;). If he doesn't, walk away and buy at a (web)shop that you know will deliver quickly. Yes, you will probably pay (substantially) more.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2017, 02:26:35 pm by jitter »
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #135 on: November 15, 2015, 05:27:36 pm »
I must admit I also ordered an Maynuo some months ago without being aware that this is not an official site. Then again, I can't really complain as the M9812 arrived fast and for a good price (as they sold the M9812 for the same price as the M9811 until recently).
Taking into account the shipping time, I don't think the load was ordered from China after I ordered. But as this guy seems to have shops for severals Chinese brands, it seems likely that he offers more than he has in stock.

Anyway: as a side note since you mentioned the USB interface: by chance, I just uploaded all the files for a DYI USB isolated interface I built for my M9812 to a bitbucket repository and created a small project page as well.
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Offline jitter

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #136 on: November 15, 2015, 06:55:57 pm »
[Off-topic]
Looks good. In this post there's another diy version that works with the Maynuo.

The "official" Maynuo M133 TTL to USB uses an AD ADUM1301 isolator in the TTL side and a Prolific PL-2303 USB to serial converter. Curiously the board also has a SO8 footprint on the bottom of the pcb which is left empty.
I tried the BK Precision software on the Maynuo. BKP supply the same driver but the BKP software refuses to work on the Maynuo saying something like "Wrong Model" or "Wrong device" in the lower left corner. Wonder if that has anything to do with the missing SO8 on the M133 or if it's the firmware inside the M9812 that is different from the BKP 8500.
Not a problem, though, as the software from Maynuo and BKP are only visually different, functionally they seem to be the same.
[/Off-topic]

Good to hear that your unit didn't take forever to arrive... to me 13 days is almost like forever for an item that was supposedly in stock.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2015, 04:32:33 pm by jitter »
 

Offline Muttley Snickers

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #137 on: December 31, 2015, 12:35:37 am »
Masters and their slaves

I’m not one to generally bag a company in public on the grounds that in most circumstances no one really benefits particularly a firm that employs many young staff but in this instance my recent experience deserves sharing so that others don’t fall for the same trap.

Two years ago I purchased a 5.4 X 3.6 meter heavy duty tarpaulin from Supercheap Auto down here in Melbourne, the tarp was to be used as a boat cover which is located under a carport and not directly exposed to sunlight, the tarpaulin from Supercheap lasted 11 months and after a few successive hot days it started to go brittle and fall apart, I packed it up and pulled out the original purchase receipt and took it back to Supercheap. They were extremely helpful and offered me a full refund, I asked if I could simply grab another tarp as a replacement and the manager said that because of this products failure they would remove the item from sale until it was established with the manufacturer that the product is fit for purpose and would last for at least the warranty period which in this case was twelve months.

I had previously done my homework in relation to tarpaulins and been around to other suppliers such as Bunnings, Masters, Rays Outdoors and obviously Supercheap to inspect and compare their products and at the time the Supercheap tarp seemed like the most suitable so that was the one we went for. Anyway Supercheap gave me a full refund and I now needed to find another tarp so I called into a Masters store which for you overseas people is a large Home Depot style hardware store as is Bunnings and it was on the way back home anyway, I inspected their collection of tarps and found a super heavy duty industrial strength model that had a long 48 months warranty label on the front and on the rear the terms and conditions of the warranty which clearly stated that should the product fail within the 48 month warranty period then it was to be returned to the place of purchase for refund or replacement.

Satisfied with the particular tarpaulin and in particular with the offering of 48 months warranty I went ahead and purchased it and as I had never dealt with Masters before I did specifically ask the cashier at the time what their policy was should there be any problems and he replied that we should simply bring it back with the receipt.

So that was twelve months ago almost to the day and I noticed a few days ago a gaping hole in the tarpaulin where it had turned brittle and was starting to fall apart exactly as the Supercheap tarp had done a year before, like Groundhog Day I packed it up and pulled out the receipt and went on my merry way down to the Masters store where it was purchased, I get to the service desk and plonk the folded tarp now back in it’s original packaging down on the counter and handed over the receipt to the service manager and explained the history behind the tarpaulin expecting that it would be easily resolved one way or another, boy was I in for a surprise and after their initial ill informed, deceptive and misconstrued response they were about to get a lesson in common courtesy, good business practice and Australian Consumer Law.

The young lady behind the counter stated that the item was to be returned to the manufacturer who was based in Queensland and who's contact details were indicated on the rear of the label so I then pointed out that same label clearly declares that the product is to be returned to the place of purchase, she wanted to argue the point and then pulled the imaginary Masters 30 day warranty return policy card out of her arse and told me to contact the tarp company in Queensland, I asked where it shows on the purchase receipt or anywhere for that matter a 30 day warranty return policy so then she says it’s clearly displayed on the sign mounted on the wall behind the service counter, let's see I said so she leads me over to the sign in question and we both read it and nowhere on the sign does it declare anything about warranty returns or a bullshit made up 30 day waiver.

She now looks like an incompetent fool and starts waffling on about their companies strictly 30 day returns policy in a rather demeaning and insulting manner, It was a bit much to swallow and I wasn’t buying any of it, not good enough I’m afraid you will need to do better than that I expressed, she then explains that her area manager will sort it out so she gets on the phone to call for backup and after a few minutes she comes back to the counter where I am frustratingly waiting and again declares that they cannot help us and that we need to send the tarpaulin back to Queensland, I told her that it’s not going to happen and it would cost a fortune to sent it anywhere and by the way Supercheap Auto in a similar circumstance didn’t argue the point nor did they make up the rules on the fly and they happily resolved the situation in a courteous and professional manner.

Her wanker sidekicks now entered the conversation sticking their ill informed noses in where they didn’t belong so I promptly responded by putting them back in their place with a few stern words, rudely she then addressed another customer who was waiting behind me and perhaps she thought that I would take what she says as gospel and simply walk away, this wasn’t my style nor would it ever be so I politely interrupted her and said we are not done here yet by any means, I turned and apologised to the fellow behind and he was ok and appeared to be returning something else so was obviously interested to bear witness to the outcome of this debacle.

I then informed her that I had been running a successful business for over 25 years and am fully aware of both my obligations and rights under consumer law in addition to mentioning a few other choice mobs such as Consumer Affairs, Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and social media sites, I then asked to see her manager to take the matter further so she then gets back on the hot line to her conveniently inconspicuous area manager and after a few minutes of me listening into the conversation in which she relayed all the cards that I had played including social media their return policy suddenly and miraculously changed to one of a full refund with no questions asked, she was clearly pissed off and her nosy parker wank buddies behind the counter had quietly departed the scene looking like idiots and leaving her embarrassed and for dead in front of a small crowd that was now gathering.

Now with the money in hand I went to town on these morons declaring that I would never again in my lifetime return to their stores and that I would expose this unnecessary episode in both public media and a formal letter of complaint and disgust to their head office, furthermore that they themselves need to read and comprehend the consumer law act regardless of what the plonker upstairs tells them, whom by the way conveniently never showed his or her face.

I did not set out on the day to upset anybody nor did I expect to be insulted, disrespected and made a mug of, I treat people as I myself like to be treated, pleasant, patient and courteous at all times but these arseholes tried to put one over on me and were not only extremely rude but deceitful and incompetent from the get go, they will never see my money nor that of my friends an colleagues ever again, this I promise you.

After exiting Masters and only a few hundred meters up the road I stopped at Bunning’s to get another tarpaulin for the boat and don’t know what I was thinking by ever going to Masters, Bunning’s have always been a pretty good mob to deal with and we have never had an issue with returning a product, they even threw in a free fluoro work vest for both myself and the neighbour. 

Anyway people sorry for making this a three part trilogy, I was hoping for a short sweat stab into Masters chest but I do find it difficult at times to give the full picture in a few words.   

Big thumbs up to both Supercheap Auto and Bunning’s Warehouse…… :-+ :-+
Big thumbs down, face palm and bullshit to Masters Hardware…… :-- :palm: :bullshit:

And just to finish, if anybody has a spare nuke hanging around to drop on to Masters PM me for the coordinates, but if possible please avoid causing collateral damage to the other fine businesses which are in close proximity. 

Masters Warranty (they need to read this policy and those of the links below)
https://www.masters.com.au/diy-projects-ideas/support-help/returns-policy   

Consumer Affairs
https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/businesses/fair-trading

Australian Competition and Consumer Commission
https://www.accc.gov.au/


 
 

Offline SeanB

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #138 on: December 31, 2015, 08:31:22 am »
Go find a trucking company and ask if they have any damaged tarpaulins, often they get a corner ripped out. Might be free off the big pile in the one corner, and all you do is cut it to fit the boat, clean it ( it will be very dirty) and put in some eyelets. Should last another 2 decades by you.
 

Offline jitter

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #139 on: December 31, 2015, 05:32:43 pm »
Masters and their slaves
Anyway people sorry for making this a three part trilogy, I was hoping for a short sweat stab into Masters chest but I do find it difficult at times to give the full picture in a few words.   

Don't worry, it was a good read!

Quote
Big thumbs up to both Supercheap Auto and Bunning’s Warehouse…… :-+ :-+
Big thumbs down, face palm and bullshit to Masters Hardware…… :-- :palm: :bullshit:
Masters Warranty (they need to read this policy and those of the links below)
https://www.masters.com.au/diy-projects-ideas/support-help/returns-policy   

That reminds me of a remark about Aldi-personnel that we make at work. We jokingly say that people that work for Aldi are selected for being very unfriendly.
In that respect, competitor Lidl seems to do a lot better. Now that Lidl is coming to Australia, it would be interesting to see if the same difference is to be found there too.  ;)
 

Offline MotorMagic

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #140 on: June 08, 2016, 07:35:35 am »
I  can offer some insight into the other side of the equation in terms of Aliexpress, as I've helped some businesses sell products there. You have to keep in mind most electronics shops are racing to the bottom. There are a few problems with Aliexpress as I see it:

1. It's pay to play. You essentially have to pay for visibility in their search, and nobody I've ever talked to made more money than what they paid Aliexpress. Most manufacturers or big suppliers quit because it's not worth their time, and they end up putting more money in than what they get out

2.  Aliexpress customers are generally extremely price sensitive, so most sellers only can sell products by breaking some rules.

Example: A 4 dollar item with free shipping (China e-packet) will never ship with a real tracking number.  You're required to submit a tracking number for Aliexpress orders, according to the rules. However, it costs more money for a tracking number than the item is worth

Are you going to buy the 4.30 item from a seller who secretly uses fake numbers, or the same exact item for 7.00 from another shop who follows the rules and only gets a few sales?

The tracking number costs twice as much as postage.

Here is a case study:
Item cost:  3 dollars
Shipping cost: 1 dollar
Tracking number: 2 dollars
Aliexpress fee: 15%
Wages, taxes, expenses: Haha

That means to make any profit you have to sell in the 7 dollar ballpark, while other sellers can sell the same thing in the 4 dollar range. The people who don't use tracking will sell hundreds of units, and you will sell a handful at best. Most people don't know, or don't care that the other seller is breaking the rules. They just know that some shops have more customers and that their price is far less.   Sellers also can't tell you they won't ship with a tracking number, because that is admitting to breaking the rules.

3. It usually takes 60 days to get paid. I always sent with tracking. Still, almost nobody confirms their order once they receive the goods. The result is that you need to wait until it times out, and then an additional month for Aliexpress to pay you. You need to finance all orders for 60 days while operating on razor thin margins. Which might work if you have a lot of customers (and free cash), but this is a website that has many sellers and relatively few buyers. Bigger sellers with a lot of cash will invest in other platforms like Amazon, where they will make better returns. The result is many sellers on Aliexpress are part time traders who I can only assume, make almost no money.

4. Because everyone is fighting to the bottom of the price barrel, the biggest sellers are only making a couple cents per order. That means if 1 person asks for a refund, there goes your profit for several hundred orders and the time it took to fulfill them. This is the cost of high volume low margin trading. Except, few sellers even get high volume on Aliexpress, and there is a lot of risk when dealing with international logistics. Retailers can take a product back and not generally be Ok, because they can have a huge margin on certain products. But, if you want to add the cost of providing no hassle refunds into your pricing structure, the customers will go to the seller who doesn't, and some of them will wonder why that seller has a death grip on the refund button.

In short, Aliexpress is a system that favors the cheap, and that is partially driven by people looking for the "buy from China" experience, who expect impossible prices with the same service they get shopping at home. In other words, let's all share a little blame cake. Bon Apetite!

I would actually say the biggest problem is actually sellers who list bogus specifications or outright lie about the products. It screws the honest seller in the long run. People are always looking for the too good to be true sale which offers an impossible amount of bank for the buck, so if you're actually honest about your sale you look non-competitive to most buyers.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #141 on: June 08, 2016, 12:10:24 pm »
Quote
Because everyone is fighting to the bottom of the price barrel, the biggest sellers are only making a couple cents per order.
Welcome to the race to the bottom. European and probably also american companies have been put out of business ten years ago due to chinese import products and prices.
They could just not compete because our workers needed a normal wage to get a normal living.
At that moment in time a chinese worker was 30 to 50 times cheaper per hour than an european worker.
China got a lot of money, there were many people getting enormously rich but also a lot of people did not profit.
Nowadays the cost for labour starts to get in the same amount as the european and if I am not mistaken the chinese worker also starts to look for better wages and leaves a company that does not pay enough. So in the end it are waves across the globe where the money is going and they shift as time goes by.
I am afraid that in a few years China will not profit in the same amounts as they were used to and guess what the same you saw in Europe and America.
The latter shifted their external economy to an internal economy (pumping money around in the same country) and export is low, import is unfortunately high.
As far as I can tell if you sell a decent product for a decent price there will always be customers that want it, but the change the chinese producers really have to make is towards quality of hardware and software and certify this quality to be able to increase the selling price and margin.
If you can't do that and keep on selling the low price hardware against minimum margins you keep on going down that race to the bottom.
 

Offline madires

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #142 on: June 08, 2016, 12:47:37 pm »
I  can offer some insight into the other side of the equation in terms of Aliexpress, as I've helped some businesses sell products there. You have to keep in mind most electronics shops are racing to the bottom. There are a few problems with Aliexpress as I see it:

Thanks for the great insight! It was clear to me that the sellers don't make much money, but I didn't know it's just cents. Is that also the reason for 5W LED lamps sold as 10W? Sorry, if I'm making fun of it and calling it the Chinese Watts or Amperes. Usually a factor of 2 up to 3 works fine, e.g. if the seller claims the PSU is 1A at 5V a measurement shows 0.5A. The same goes for most products. Recently I bought a 7W LED lamp from a German seller in Amazon's marketplace and the lamp draws just 4.3W.
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #143 on: June 08, 2016, 02:04:40 pm »
Perhaps it is wiser to ask how many lumens the led will produce instead of Watts unless you are not interested in the amount of light  :)
 

Offline edavid

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #144 on: June 08, 2016, 03:03:01 pm »
Example: A 4 dollar item with free shipping (China e-packet) will never ship with a real tracking number.  You're required to submit a tracking number for Aliexpress orders, according to the rules. However, it costs more money for a tracking number than the item is worth

This doesn't jibe with my experience.  On AliExpress, ePacket is almost always optional.  I have never had a case where I was promised ePacket and didn't get it (that has happened a few times on eBay though).

If AliExpress requires an international tracking number, why do they even allow sellers to offer China Post airmail, which only has in-China tracking?

And whenever I've checked a China Post tracking number from an AliExpress seller, it's been real.

P.S. I've had that same problem with "China watts".  I bought "3W" and "5W" LED bulbs from one seller, and they turned out to be identical ~1W bulbs.  They didn't even have power supplies, just capacitor droppers.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 03:05:21 pm by edavid »
 

Offline jitter

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #145 on: June 08, 2016, 04:48:54 pm »
They didn't even have power supplies, just capacitor droppers.

Then it may come as a surprise to you that recently I tore down a Philips GU10 LED spotlight that has a capacitive dropper as well.
I have posted about this on a Dutch forum and was planning to do that on this forum too. As it's off topic for this thread, I'll post a link here when it's finished

Edit:
Finished: link to the topic.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 05:17:37 pm by jitter »
 

Offline madires

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #146 on: June 08, 2016, 04:54:50 pm »
Perhaps it is wiser to ask how many lumens the led will produce instead of Watts unless you are not interested in the amount of light  :)

It's even better to ask for both, since it allows you to calculate the efficiency. Anyway, I would end up with Chinese Watts and Chinese lumens  :)
 

Offline madires

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #147 on: June 08, 2016, 05:13:19 pm »
P.S. I've had that same problem with "China watts".  I bought "3W" and "5W" LED bulbs from one seller, and they turned out to be identical ~1W bulbs.  They didn't even have power supplies, just capacitor droppers.

If something is really cheap I always expect Chinese Watts, but selling 1W bulbs as 3W and 5W is nasty (assuming the 5W bulbs are more expensive than the 3W). A capacitor dropper isn't bad, might even last longer than other solutions. Anyone with experience in life times of the different power supply solutions?
 

Offline Kjelt

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #148 on: June 08, 2016, 05:16:17 pm »
Then it may come as a surprise to you that recently I tore down a Philips GU10 LED spotlight that has a capacitive dropper as well.
I think all GU10 leds have capacitive powersupply else there is no room. Beside for low wattages a capacitive powersupply is not that bad, they can last a very long time if the used capacitors are good.
 

Offline jitter

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Re: The Bad Shopping Experience Thread
« Reply #149 on: June 08, 2016, 05:32:08 pm »
Then it may come as a surprise to you that recently I tore down a Philips GU10 LED spotlight that has a capacitive dropper as well.
I think all GU10 leds have capacitive powersupply else there is no room. Beside for low wattages a capacitive powersupply is not that bad, they can last a very long time if the used capacitors are good.

When the outside has exposed aluminium (somehting of the past, by now), the driver will most likely be of the galvanic isolated type (read: SMPS). You can even find them in no-name stuff...
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 05:34:31 pm by jitter »
 


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