Author Topic: Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator  (Read 9253 times)

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Offline thomastheo

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #125 on: October 13, 2019, 12:26:07 pm »
It looked like a regular smd XO, with 10 MHz going straight into the fpga, but I could be mistaken. I only opened it up to have a quick glance at the internals before daring to plug it in. This turned out to be a good idea, because the cover screw had inconveniently drilled itself straight through the SMPS ribbon cable, pretty much shorting together the +-13.5v rails!

Other things I noticed were the NEC relays, with date codes ranging from 1997-2004. Three of the four had what looked like some kind of conformal coating on them, so I suspect these werent even NOS relays :D

Regardless, still a bargain, but quite hilarious. I'll have a closer look at the main board next time I have it open... when I replace the power supply.
 

Offline Johnny B Good

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #126 on: October 14, 2019, 06:18:10 pm »
It looked like a regular smd XO, with 10 MHz going straight into the fpga, but I could be mistaken. I only opened it up to have a quick glance at the internals before daring to plug it in. This turned out to be a good idea, because the cover screw had inconveniently drilled itself straight through the SMPS ribbon cable, pretty much shorting together the +-13.5v rails!

Other things I noticed were the NEC relays, with date codes ranging from 1997-2004. Three of the four had what looked like some kind of conformal coating on them, so I suspect these werent even NOS relays :D

Regardless, still a bargain, but quite hilarious. I'll have a closer look at the main board next time I have it open... when I replace the power supply.

 Just when you thought they couldn't get any cheaper! Their buyer (buying department) must be expert(s) at sniffing out bargains in the component supply chain. Perhaps they'd located a dirt cheap source of 10MHz XO and clock multiplier chips (not necessarily those NB3N502 ICs I mentioned) or perhaps an FPGA version that can be clocked with 10MHz rather than the more typical 50MHz - who knows how the inscrutable Chinese mind works?. :-\

 Incidentally, are those +/-13.5v rails marked as such, or was it just what voltages you were seeing whilst the unit was delivering 20Vpp into 50 ohm dummy loads? Also, did you take the opportunity to repair the vandalism Feeltech had perpetrated in stealing one of the two ground return wires out of the ribbon cable in order to provide a hard connection to the PE terminal on that BFO C14 mains connector?

 This latter act of vandalism really ought to be remedied, preferably by tripling up the one remaining ground return wire and patching out the missing wire similarly and, for good measure, remove the resulting ground loop issue by inserting a 3K3R or 10KR in series with the PE connection. The class II smpsu board used doesn't actually require a hard protective earth connection and even a 10KR "static drain" resistor is sufficient to knock the 90vac half mains live voltage ESD hazard of a 240v mains supply down to just half a volt ac or less.

 At least one member who'd bought an FY6800 was saved the trouble and embarrassment of returning it with a "DC Offset fault" after heeding advice to break the earth loop (in his case, he'd chosen to disconnect the 'scope ground) and retest. The FY6600 hadn't suffered this ground loop issue but the half mains live 'touch voltage' presented an ESD hazard if you forgot to connect the BNC ground before connecting to the test point of your DUT (and disconnected it after disconnecting from the test point).

 It turned out that the solution was simply to upgrade the 2 pole C8 connector to a 3 pole C6 or C14 connector to wire the PE to the main board ground via a 10KR 'drain resistor' to suppress this half mains live 'touch voltage' and neatly sidestep this ground loop issue.

 It's quite clear that Feeltech's decision to upgrade from the C8 to a C14 mains connector on the FY6800 model must have been a response to all the moaning about the ESD hazard in the FY6600 EEVBlog thread. Unfortunately, they chose to do the absolute minimum possible to implement a solution to address this complaint about the presence of this ESD hazard by totally ignoring all and every "unintended consequence" of hard earthing the BNC ground points and reduction of ground return wires in the smpsu board to main board ribbon cable connector from a barely adequate count of two to a woefully inadequate count of one.

 That ribbon connector could have done with an upgrade from a 6 pole single row to a 12 pole dual row connector to add another 6 ground wires to the circuit to reduce PSU noise and ripple getting onto the main board supply rails. Reducing the ground return wire count would have been the last thing any sane manufacturer would have even considered, let alone implement. :palm:

 Feeltech (FeelElec) aren't the only Chinese manufacturer of bargain priced test, measurement and electronic tools who show such blatant disregard for any modicum of quality in their products. KSGER who make all those otherwise excellent T12/T15 tip based soldering stations are just as bad (and even worse if you rate the electrocution risk higher than the ESD risk).

 I bought one of these cheap alternatives to Hakko's rather flawed FX-951 soldering station two months ago and, as with the FY6600, it rather benefited from some basic fettling and general remedial work. It is now as safe as any normal electrical appliance made by The West (excepting for some models of Weller soldering stations  ::)) can be expected to be and no longer at risk of its controller succumbing to soldering iron handle wiring faults, typical of "Chinese Quality Control".

 It's considered SOP to take such mains powered Chinese Marvels of Technology apart as you did, in order to check for and (almost inevitably) make safe for "Human Consumption" and 'fitter for purpose'. :)

 I was only expressing an idle curiosity in the matter seeing as how Feeltech appear to have been taking note of the various moans and groans and modifications that had been discussed in the earlier FY6600 thread (a "Standing on the shoulders of giants" effect) where the use of the 3N502 had been suggested by one of the members to Arthur Dent who had been proposing to fit a 10MHz OCXO to his FY6600 at the time (and has long since done so) and from which I eventually[1] took inspiration to do likewise after having already replaced the shitty little 50MHz smd XO chip with a 50MHz 0.1ppm rated TCXO driver board I'd mounted well clear of the 50 deg C environment of the original on-board XO chip.

 Having employed the 3N502 to allow me the use of a CQE branded 12v 10MHz OCXO in my own FY6600 project and using another one in my current DIY GPSDO project to make use of a 5v 13MHz CQE branded OCXO (74HC86 clock doubler to 26MHz into a 74193 (original old skool TTL!) divide by 13 to drive the 3N502 with the lowest allowable 2MHz input frequency clock) to generate an ultra low jitter 10Mz square wave, that 3N502 was rather on my mind when I saw your post. :)

 As I've already admitted, it was just idle curiosity on my part so there's no hurry in answering that question. That's not to say I wouldn't be interested in what you do eventually discover as I'm sure others would likewise be interested in what you may care to divulge about Feeltech's (FeelElec) latest and greatest toy signal generator.

[1] I rather naively thought at the time, that this OCXO mod was just a tad OTT but eventually realised the value of such accuracy and stability once I discovered that I was never likely to improve on the +/-30ppb I was getting out of the 50MHz TCXO board. As good an improvement as it was over the original smd XO chip's best +/-20ppm effort at (in)stability, I had developed a new found desire for sub ppb accuracy which nothing less than an OCXO could satisfy. ::)

JBG
« Last Edit: October 15, 2019, 01:13:48 am by Johnny B Good »
 

Offline wadim207

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #127 on: October 17, 2019, 11:30:29 am »
When testing the functions of the generator FY6900, it was found impossible to connect to the computer. When connected to different computers, the device is not detected by windows 7, new devices do not appear in the device lists. When you connect another device with USB-SERIAL CH340 on these computers, it is recognized and connected. Installing the ch340/CH341 driver of different versions did not help. Help solve the problem or fix it.
 

Offline FeelElec

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #128 on: October 19, 2019, 08:47:43 am »
When testing the functions of the generator FY6900, it was found impossible to connect to the computer. When connected to different computers, the device is not detected by windows 7, new devices do not appear in the device lists. When you connect another device with USB-SERIAL CH340 on these computers, it is recognized and connected. Installing the ch340/CH341 driver of different versions did not help. Help solve the problem or fix it.

Dear Customer,
Our technicians are helping you solve the problem on AliExpress.
 

Offline ToKreTu

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #129 on: October 25, 2019, 10:41:07 am »
Hello I’m new in this forum as a contributor.
I’ve just received my FY6900 and I’m very happy with it so far - everything is working as expected.  After thorough investigations on the internet I came to the conclusion that at the moment there is no better signal generator on the market for that price.

@feelelec
Only one point is confusing me and I need clarification.  It’s about the input signal level for the Counter.  There are three different instructions concerning the Counter Input: 

1.   When entering the counter menu by pressing the COUNTER button the Display shows the Message “Warning: Maximum Safe Input Voltage: 5V AC+DC” (picture 1). What does that mean and what does “Safe Input” exactly mean? Does it mean that the device can get damaged when the Input Voltage is higher? Or does it only mean that the measurement result can get inaccurate?
2.   In the User Guide on page 28, picture 2-1 the max. safe input voltage is given as “20V AC+DC” and in the box at the bottom of this page it is only 5V but now it speaks about Trig. IN instead of Counter IN (picture 2). This is very confusing! Again: What means “safe”?
3.   On the other hand the Technical Specifications in the User Guide allow an “Input Voltage Range” of 1Vpp~20Vpp (page 43, External Measurement; see my picture 3 below).  And that is what I am actually expecting of a frequency counter!

Please confirm my expectation or, if you cannot, please explain why the input voltage for the Counter is limited to only 5V.
One point is for sure: The User Guide and the real device (firmware V1.2) do not correspond.

Thank you, Thomas
 

Offline Kleinstein

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #130 on: October 25, 2019, 11:24:40 am »
The maximum safe voltage normally is the level one can be sure not to cause a damage. The actual level where damage starts may be considerably higher. Another point is that there may be a higher level for short time.

The different voltage levels are indeed confusing. Part of this could be due to translation.
 

Offline FeelElec

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #131 on: October 26, 2019, 02:40:40 am »

1.   When entering the counter menu by pressing the COUNTER button the Display shows the Message “Warning: Maximum Safe Input Voltage: 5V AC+DC” (picture 1). What does that mean and what does “Safe Input” exactly mean? Does it mean that the device can get damaged when the Input Voltage is higher? Or does it only mean that the measurement result can get inaccurate?
2.   In the User Guide on page 28, picture 2-1 the max. safe input voltage is given as “20V AC+DC” and in the box at the bottom of this page it is only 5V but now it speaks about Trig. IN instead of Counter IN (picture 2). This is very confusing! Again: What means “safe”?
3.   On the other hand the Technical Specifications in the User Guide allow an “Input Voltage Range” of 1Vpp~20Vpp (page 43, External Measurement; see my picture 3 below).  And that is what I am actually expecting of a frequency counter!


Dear Customer,
Thank you very much for your discovery.
The safe input voltage "20V AC+DC" on the instruction manual is correct.
The display on the machine is wrong and our engineers will amend it.

FeelElec
 

Offline WaveyDipole

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #132 on: October 30, 2019, 05:02:10 pm »
Is there any difference between the FeelElec and KKmoon branded versions except for the price (KKmoon is around 10GPB cheaper)? They appear to be the same re-branded unit? Quality? Earlier firmware?

Regarding the firmware, can it be upgraded?
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 09:16:42 pm by WaveyDipole »
 

Offline FeelElec

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #133 on: October 31, 2019, 03:25:38 am »
Is there any difference between the FeelElec and KKmoon branded versions except for the price (KKmoon is around 10GPB cheaper)? They appear to be the same re-branded unit? Quality? Earlier firmware?

Regarding the firmware, can it be upgraded?

Dear Customer,
KKmoon is our agent, you can purchase from our store or KKmoon store.

FeelElec
 

Offline WaveyDipole

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #134 on: November 04, 2019, 06:50:25 pm »
My KKmoon branded unit arrived today and seems to be in good working order. I haven't looked inside yet, but there was no appreciable voltage or current on the BNC connectors. A quick test of functions and waveforms shows all is well. I did note the amplitude voltage display issue and the observation regarding the control knob. The amplitude voltage display is still consistent with the observation and the control knob is indeed a little fiddly, but does work and is only to be expected for the price. I can't comment on the power supply yet, but this has been well covered already.

I was able to perform a quick test of the software on Windows 7 Pro. I had no problem getting this to work although I already had the CH340 drivers installed, although I have only looked at it only from a remote control perspective. I also managed to get the software to work in Linux under Wine. A little configuration in Wine was required in order to connect with the serial port, but otherwise the software seemed to connect and work. There was one error during installation (unregistered et40.dll) which I need to investigate further.

The FY6900 software lists 16 ports under 'Port Connect', so a port needed to be selected from this range. However, in Linux a USB serial port is mapped to something like /dev/ttyUSB0. On my machine, Wine, in turn, maps this to com33 by creating a symbolic link in ~/.wine/dosdevices.

In order to get around this, one option is to manually create the symbolic link for the required port. The downside is that Wine automatically refreshes the links back to their default state when an application is launched. This means that the symbolic link had to be created every time and after the FY6900 software was launched, otherwise Wine would just reset it and the software would try to connect to an inactive port. Fortunately there is a better way.

It is possible to override the serial ports mappings that are created automatically by Wine. This is quite simple and can be done simply by a registry entry per port. Full details can be found here:

https://wiki.winehq.org/Wine_User%27s_Guide#Serial_and_Parallel_Ports

This method has the advantage that the chosen port is mapped automatically each time Wine is started and no manual work is required. Since I am using more than one USB serial device, I created three entries to re-map com7, com8, and com9 to /dev/ttyUSB0, /dev/ttyUSB1 and /dev/ttyUSB2. Of course, if you have only one serial device, then it is sufficient to map just the one port, and any port from the FY6900 software list can be chosen. All I need to know is which /dev/ttyUSBx port the FY6900 device is mapped to in Linux and then select the corresponding com port (7-9) in Wine. If the FY6900 remains plugged in to the USB port, then the last used serial port will automatically be used when the software is re-started.

If I can work out the protocols it uses to send commands and data, then it should be possible to create scripts
to set up the FY6900 and run tests, or even write a native Linux program. At some point I will have a proper look at the inside, but from my brief look, the unit does work, is the 60MHz version (PY6900-60M, version 1.3) and seems more than adequate for hobbyist use. I would like to know, incidentally, whether version 1.3 is a current version of the firmware? Does anyone have any information on firmware versions?
 

Offline FeelElec

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #135 on: November 06, 2019, 05:04:38 am »
If I can work out the protocols it uses to send commands and data, then it should be possible to create scripts
to set up the FY6900 and run tests, or even write a native Linux program. At some point I will have a proper look at the inside, but from my brief look, the unit does work, is the 60MHz version (PY6900-60M, version 1.3) and seems more than adequate for hobbyist use. I would like to know, incidentally, whether version 1.3 is a current version of the firmware? Does anyone have any information on firmware versions?

Dear customer,
Our latest version of the firmware is 1.3.

FeelElec
 

Offline v0ltair3

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #136 on: November 06, 2019, 03:47:17 pm »
Dear FeelElec,

I understand your effort to come closer to the community and that was one the key reasons why I decided to take the risk and to order one. I understand there might be some technical flaws but I assume it's due to imposed restrictions when trying to positioning such a product in the under 100$ price tag.

As a hobbyist, it's hard to find the a use case where I would spend more than that on a signal generator, my purpose is really to learn about electronics and this kind of equipment helps me grasp and visualize some key theoretical concepts.

I find it also quite interesting when the community of REAL electronics engineers or serious hobbyist hack into it and find ways to improve them, this is in fact another way to learn as doing it so, forces you to understand some other concepts of what are you really improving (and eventually a way for you to sell a few more).

So if you allow me to provide some feedback:

1 - Always keep a positive and constructive attitude towards the community, I'm am sure that others like me will use it as an argument to select your brand VS others.

2 - Keep your website neat and up to date regarding your products. I'm sure there are a ton of potential customers that aren't aware of this forum, let alone this topic, so your site is the only window between both. And nowadays there's no reason why you couldn't have a gorgeous website for a very very small amount of money.

Example, you just stated that rev. 1.3 of the firmware was released, how can I update my own ? (it has version 1.2), your website shall have a support area for each one of your products with product documentation, latest firmware updates with respective release notes (doesn't have to be very extensive).

3 - Allow feedback for new features or bugs for coming firmware updates, having the community telling you exactly what they expect from your products, even on this segment, its a very inexpensive and powerful tool (I'm on the product business myself, although in software) and can make your product sales cycle last for years....

Example, I would really like to have a way to send a single pulse while I'm playing with logical circuits.

Thank you,
« Last Edit: November 06, 2019, 03:56:19 pm by v0ltair3 »
 
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Offline WaveyDipole

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #137 on: November 09, 2019, 08:03:21 pm »
Further to being able to run fy6900.exe under wine, it seems that one some Linux/wine installations the application might show the form labels with small squares instead of characters. The main menu and text fields will be OK. It seems the problem may be related to a missing TrueType font called DroidSansFallBack.ttf. The file can be downloaded here:

https://android.googlesource.com/platform/frameworks/base/+/master/data/fonts/DroidSansFallback.ttf

It should be placed in ~/.wine/drive_c/windows/Fonts, or the corresponding path for your wine prefix. It can also be placed in /usr/share/fonts/truetype/Droid. The former is probably preferable, but either seems to work.
 

Offline v0ltair3

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #138 on: November 13, 2019, 10:02:19 pm »
Dear FeelElec,

Mind addressing the firmware upgrade procedure instructions and release notes ?

thank you in advance,
 

Offline FeelElec

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #139 on: November 14, 2019, 09:02:40 am »
Example, I would really like to have a way to send a single pulse while I'm playing with logical circuits.

Dear Customer,
Thank you for your suggestions. As for your requirements, the instrument supports the output of single or multiple pulses under the trigger function.
 

Offline v0ltair3

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Re: FeelElec New Arrival FY-6900 Signal Generator
« Reply #140 on: November 14, 2019, 09:30:19 am »
Awesome... I've likely missed something on the manual, need to RFTM once again :)

Could you point me in the right direction for the upgrade procedure ?

Thank you in advance,
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:44:23 pm by v0ltair3 »
 


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